Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

Linda7NJ said:

Now I see more of where you're coming from normalizing & defending the McCanns behavior before Madeleine disappeared. How old was your child when you left him alone when on holiday?

What about the McCanns behavior afterwards? I can't wrap my head around the details in this case. Their child crying for over an hour the night before, even voicing her frustration to Kate at breakfast the morning of. Their behavior afterwards... Doesn't seem like the behavior of someone that simply felt "safe" and didn't consider abduction a possibility. Kate leaped to abduction as opposed to simply walking off...


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ITS all so easy to say oh yes i did it too and its common practice as in defence, BUT, I come from a Mediterranean family brought up that way.

As to leaving a child UNATTENDED whilst on a dock in Italy whilst one continues to read a book, and giving that child at about the age of 4 some money to buy from a shop in a STRANGE country well sorry that snippet rendered me speachless......

The first thing is I am RC. One of the things with being RC is they believe mostly in their children. THEIR CHILDREN are their souls, their lives, and they are protected fiercely and looked after and put before everyone else.

In any med country you will see at night ALL the families out together with their kids, eating their dinner usually after 8pm, OR they all sit around the table at home and sit for hours eating and chatting. Those were some of my most precious memories....

My mother has six children all grown up now. We lived abroad in many countries, I too did with my children.

I never heard of such a thing of leaving of your children unattended in a private apartment on holiday.

However, yes there are listening services in lock down holiday areas like Butlins and other places you can choose to use it or not.

My husband and I always used to holiday out of season, as we found that even in the evenings every restaurant or bar would be full of kids, walking or asleep in pushchairs.

The one thing for me which kind of made me sit up and get really angry was leaving those children the last night after they had been crying and scared.

Can you imagine the trauma of a little child of 3 waking up in the dark and not being able to find mummy or daddy? Too scared to move, peeing her pants with fear.......perhaps because they woke up thirsty or needing a pee called mummy and daddy and they never came. TOO SCARED in the dark to go and look for them....or even getting up brave enough to look for them.....and ended up in trouble....i.e. Theory :

1. disturbing a burglar
2. Going outside falling over balustrade
3. Climbing on settee which had been moved away from the wall, reaching out to try and stand on window sill to see if daddy was outside
4. Going outside looking for mummy and daddy and being distracted falls into someones swimming pool, or drainage hole, etc....

No it made me so mad I could hardly think about it. :facepalm:

IF this case was all about a single parent, or low class citizen on holiday, they would have been arrested for child neglect and child endangerment.........

haden said:

Ah, and nobody posted the update from Joana Morais.
Seems she was warned about her lies and she refuted her own claim of the tractor man being pursued only by SY, not the new PJ investigation.. as it comes out she was wrong!

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She didnt LIE, she was misinformed BUT COME ON HADEN, she had the grace to ADMIT IT, and put it on her blog. Give the women a break....

Thats been on her blog two days by the way...

Estelle said:

One would suspect there could be many of these telephone conversations ready to be revealed.

Only last year, one heard there were transcripts of Payne and McCann.

And allegedly a hotel room was bugged whilst Fiona Payne and Kate McCann were staying there.

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I can't help but think that IF the transcript were genuine, which I believe it is NOT, if any information had been gained, it sure wasn't enough to charge the McCann's with anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghIWyEdEB00#t=13

At 1.10 three or four strange photos of Maddie

Inana said:

I can't help but think that IF the transcript were genuine, which I believe it is NOT, if any information had been gained, it sure wasn't enough to charge the McCann's with anything.

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That's coming soon!!!!!

Estelle said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghIWyEdEB00#t=13

At 1.10 three or four strange photos of Maddie

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One thing i have found with the child is, so many of the photos she looks so DIFFERENT, even taken at same age etc. Some she looks willowly and tall, others tiny and fragile...

I got confused at the start as I wondered if she had a twin.

Doesnt take much for me to get confused lol.

Inana said:

I don't know if this has been discussed before. When I was reading the McCann files concerning the disappearance of Joana Capriano, I started to create a timeline of events that happened in that case and bouncing them off of Madeleine's case.

Interestingly enough, on May 4, 2007, the day after Madeleine was kidnapped, Gonçalo Amaral was officially made an Arguido in the case of the prison beating of Leonor Capriano, mother of little Joana. Same basic story as Madeleine's, child disappears never to be seen again. Except that Amaral, his buddy and three officers were charged with the beating, etc...I think you know that story as it lead to Amaral's falsification conviction.

It is written that Amaral was furious about being made an Arguido. He felt humiliated and embarrassed and surely felt like he had something to prove. So, he is very angry when he first arrives at the McCann apartment, and in my opinion, takes it out on the McCann's for what he considers his injustice in a very similar case.

This is the basis of why the McCann's DID express concern over his overseeing their case, and when he so obviously focused on them as the only possibility, they began to be concerned about their own safety. Would they decide to beat a confession out of Kate? or Gerry? History said it had been done before.

When one is an arguido in Portugal, the PJ can remand that person to jail for up to three years without formal charges. PJ needs a reason, of course and with Amaral not being shy about making stuff up, it wouldn't take much to lock the McCanns up.

The day after the McCanns were made arguido's, they left for the UK before any restrictions could be filed requiring them to stay in Portugal. They did, after all have to work, and raise the twins.

So, in the five months he was on this case, Amaral was quite involved with his own problems, and I think it severely skewed any rational judgment he might have had.

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lol...I wondered how long the old Cipriano case would once again be dragged out to try and disgrace poor Amaral.........who wasnt even present at the so called beating, which AGAIN has been found she LIED.

The child went missing in 2004, they both confessed, the nephew did and he wasnt beaten...so can we move on from this sad case of a lovely girl, butchered to death by the 2 people who should have protected her.....

Cut into pieces by her uncle, murdered by her mother....

Goodness me, if people are so interested in this case, perhaps there should be a thread on its own...

....?

Murder of Joana Cipriano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

song22 said:

I was very active on another case in which folks were divided into two camps. One group strongly believed the parent did it and the other group fiercely defended the parent in question. I thought the parent did it for sure. he case is still unsolved and I still believe the parent is the main suspect. But I have always said that if it turned out I was wrong and the was some kind of crazy freak intruder/abductor scenario after all, I wouldn't be surprised. I have seen so many cases with the most unexpected twists and turns.

It is strange now to be in the pro-parent camp. but again, if It came to pass that the parents did it, I wouldn't be surprised either. i am really curious about the consensus that the McCanns don't behave like grieving parents. I have said this about other parents. but I don't see this here. The interviews I have seen show two people who look exhausted, sick, burdened with grief and angry. I sense a lot of fury, which I would carry as well if my child was abducted and if there was no justice and if I had been dragged through hell. So does anyone have any particular interview or video I should watch, to get an idea of what people are talking about? Im genuinely curious and open minded.

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I don't see it, either. In the Crimewatch programme I thought that you could see that Kate, in particular, had visibly aged beyond her years.

IMO Kate lied about the reason she had cadaver scent on her clothes. She said that she had touched six dead bodies in the week leading up to the holiday.

A doctor friend told me that when called to pronounce death, Doctors don't really handle the body. It would just be with hands covered in gloves that are disposed of straight a way, he said he hadn't had 6 bodies in the last six months ...... The six dead bodies in a week must be an easy lie to check for the police.

"Police are bugging our phone calls and emails'

20 September 2007

Kate and Gerry McCann are convinced they are being bugged by British police.

They believe their mobile phone calls and emails are being monitored by detectives collecting evidence on behalf of the Portuguese investigation.

As a result they and some of their friends and supporters go to great lengths to avoid being overheard when they are discussing sensitive issues in the case of missing Madeleine, meetforing face-to-face or talking on landlines which they believe to be harder to intercept.

Surveillance targets? Gerry and Kate McCann, pictured yesterday, are being ultra cautious about their conversations, say friends.

Their suspicions were first aroused by questions they were asked by Portuguese police which were based on information that could only have come from private conversations.

During lengthy interviews when they were first made suspects, they were asked questions which implied they had conspired during mobile phone conversations to hide who was at the dinner party - and when - on the night that Madeleine disappeared.




Most of these would be seeking telephone numbers one particular phone has called. Only a very small proportion would have been for permission to listen in on a call or read an email.

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...bugging-phone-calls-emails.html#ixzz2KdCnTXSy

I wonder if they are still tapping the McCanns phones now.

Estelle said:

IMO Kate lied about the reason she had cadaver scent on her clothes. She said that she had touched six dead bodies in the week leading up to the holiday.

A doctor friend told me that when called to pronounce death, Doctors don't really handle the body. It would just be with hands covered in gloves that are disposed of straight a way, he said he hadn't had 6 bodies in the last six months ...... The six dead bodies in a week must be an easy lie to check for the police.

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How do any of us know what Kate's duties were as a GP? Also, do you have a link for the "six dead bodies" statement? I've read Kates statements and don't recall her ever saying that. But if she did, has it ever been verified what her job entailed? I think not.

Could you provide a link for your statement please?

Estelle said:

"Police are bugging our phone calls and emails'

20 September 2007



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...bugging-phone-calls-emails.html#ixzz2KdCnTXSy

I wonder if they are still tapping the McCanns phones now.

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They stopped tapping the phones on June 13, 2007.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VODAFONE.htm

Policia Judiciaria
4th Brigade
Inspector Joao Carlos

Report of Cessation of Telephone Interception

On 13th June 2007 the Policia Judiciaria – Portimao DIC and the PJ Telecommunications Services proceeded to cease the interception of the mobile number xxxxxxxxxx (target 1L77OM) in accordance with the legal dispatch contained in the investigation process files.

Pisces Cloud said:

I don't see it, either. In the Crimewatch programme I thought that you could see that Kate, in particular, had visibly aged beyond her years.

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The strain is definitely showing.

:twocents:

Inana said:

They stopped tapping the phones on June 13, 2007.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VODAFONE.htm

Policia Judiciaria
4th Brigade
Inspector Joao Carlos

Report of Cessation of Telephone Interception

On 13th June 2007 the Policia Judiciaria – Portimao DIC and the PJ Telecommunications Services proceeded to cease the interception of the mobile number xxxxxxxxxx (target 1L77OM) in accordance with the legal dispatch contained in the investigation process files.

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TWO ERRORS:

1. The British Police had the Tapas9 under phone surveillance NOT the PJ

2. The PJ stopped the interception of ONE MOBILE PHONE NUMBER IN THAT STATEMENT!

Some of the Tapas9 had at least THREE MOBILE PHONE NUMBERS EACH!

(modsnip)

Inana said:

How do any of us know what Kate's duties were as a GP? Also, do you have a link for the "six dead bodies" statement? I've read Kates statements and don't recall her ever saying that. But if she did, has it ever been verified what her job entailed? I think not.

Could you provide a link for your statement please?

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It was in Kate's own words to British media. She tried to explain away why the cadaver was found on her clothes and Cuddle Cat. But she told this to the media. It was not relevant in her statement as it occurred before the holiday.

"Kate has been close to six bodies in the last two weeks at work
Apparently the source for this claim is Correia da Manha, a Portuguese tabloid. It was impossible for us to find the original. However the British newspapers copied it into their articles. There's no video interview we could find to hear Kate McCann say it herself, nor any newspaper interview.

TimesOnline 10.09.2007
Mrs McCann is reported to have explained that in her work as locum GP she came into contact with six corpses in the weeks leading up to Algarve holiday.

There's also an Express article that since has been pulled/removed from the public domain ("Questions for the McCanns") which said:
Why did a dog detect the smell of a corpse on your clothes?

A British dog trained by police to find dead bodies is alleged to have detected something on Mrs McCann’s bible, jeans and T-shirt and also on Madeleine’s favourite Cuddle Cat toy. Kate McCann is believed to have replied that she came into contact with at least six corpses in her work as a doctor. And it is possible Madeleine’s toy could have become contaminated from Mrs McCann’s clothes.

Kate took CuddleCat sometimes to work
No source found for this claim.

ALSO

The ‘smell of death’ could have come from rotting meat that Gerry McCann was taking to the local rubbish dump from time to time
Not the McCanns, but 'a' friend, an unnamed source claimed this.

Telegraph
A friend dismissed reports of scientific findings that could have aroused suspicion, saying traces of Madeleine’s DNA allegedly found in the back of the car they hired 25 days after she disappeared could be explained easily.
He also sought to explain why sniffer dogs - trained to detect the "smell of death" - allegedly became so excited when shown the boot of the car.
"Kate and Gerry had to transport all their rubbish to a communal rubbish dump half a mile away," the friend said.

"There was a regular run with the boot of the car being full of rubbish including bags of rotting fruit, rotting meat and soiled nappies belonging to the twins."

http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbwork...tehasbeenclosetosixbodiesinlasttwoweeksatwork

Estelle said:

A mobile ’phone secretly intercepted some time in early August 2009 between Gerry McCann and Clarence Mitchell.

CM: Gerry, hi, have you got five?

GM: Well, no more than that…by the way, how are we getting on with Hewlett? Has he revealed what that tipsy gypsy told them yet?

CM: Skip that, he's not go long to live anyway, look, we’ve got a really great idea for our next ‘sighting’...et.al.

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According to this site the whole thing, written by Tony Bennett was a hoax, or spoof, and exposed here:

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2...ce-mitchell-to-gerry-mccann-early-august-2009

As I posted earlier, the PJ stopped tapping them June 13, 2007, or shortly after, so who would have been "listening in?" The British didn't consider them suspects. This is just one of Mr Bennetts sick works of fiction.

Hexe said:

It seems so. But I don't know what is your explanation for that string of burglaries. You seem to find it unusual and I would like to know what exactly is your theory about it.



Well, we can, to some extent. Do you know a single case of a burglar, who broke in with the intention of stealing the valuables from the flat, but ended up stealing a child (and did not demand a ransom)? I don't. Usually the burglars break in into the houses and apartments to steal the things inside. Not the people inside.



Well, the paedophiles have, unfortunately, less risky ways to obtain the children. And much cheaper. But I cannot completely exclude something like this.

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We do know of many home invasion cases however that doesn't seem to be the case here considering nothing was taken from the apartment except for little Maddie. If it was an abduction by a pedophile, the tractor man story is hogwash. If he was burglar, he would steal items not a child.

The only other case I can think of similar circumstances is the Lisa Irwin case. Cellphones were stolen in that case and of course Baby Lisa. Her parents are also under the same scrutiny as the McCanns because nothing in that case makes any sense either.

Estelle said:

TWO ERRORS:

1. The British Police had the Tapas9 under phone surveillance NOT the PJ

2. The PJ stopped the interception of ONE MOBILE PHONE NUMBER IN THAT STATEMENT!

Some of the Tapas9 had at least THREE MOBILE PHONE NUMBERS EACH!

(modsnip)

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1. I don't believe so. Do you have a link for that? Nowhere have I read that the British police tapped their phones.

2. In the link I provided, it lists all of the numbers with the same statement for each one. All the tapas 9 plus some, so that must be the multiples you mention.

(modsnip)

Inana said:

According to this site the whole thing, written by Tony Bennett was a hoax, or spoof, and exposed here:

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2...ce-mitchell-to-gerry-mccann-early-august-2009

As I posted earlier, the PJ stopped tapping them June 13, 2007, or shortly after, so who would have been "listening in?" The British didn't consider them suspects. This is just one of Mr Bennetts sick works of fiction.

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The British did consider them suspects up until 2008 when the case was shelved. IMO They still do but are pretending they are not to keep them onside. It was the British police who suggested and brought over the dogs.

"The theory that the parents had covered up Madeleine’s death as outlined in Amaral’s book was one reached by British police on the ground in Portugal too.

“This wasn’t something invented by Amaral,” he insisted. “It was a conclusion reached by the team of Portuguese investigators as well as British police.”

The senior detective said the land was searched but nothing was found. “That is when we decided to send the specialist dogs in. British police informed us about how they could detect the scent of death.”

He admitted that the police had been suspicious of the McCanns from the start of the investigation. “They disobeyed our request to keep quiet about the details of their daughter’s disappearance while we conducted our investigation. Instead they turned it into a media circus and that gave rise to some suspicions.”

He said that the McCanns should have faced prosecution for leaving their children alone. “They should have been pursued for neglect. People have been arrested for far less – even in the UK.”

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-by-parents-who-faked-kidnap-court-hears.html