TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #1

Miss Magnolia said:

I don't think our Country is exclusive to Domestic Violence. I did a Battered Women's Crisis line for years. Many times when the abuser can no longer control their victim, they go after what the victim loves most and in this case it was the church his victims family attended. We are all rushing to figure out which box to check off, was it domestic violence, was it racial, was it a substance abuse issue, a mental illness issue, gun rights, a religious thing? I know I have had Women from all walks of life that live this nightmare, and it's not exclusive to the United States. Its just as difficult to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and violent criminals as it is keeping a person out of a car that has lost their driving privileges due to multiple DWI convictions. How often do we hear about repeat DWI offenders without a drivers license continuing to drive drunk and kill people? I can't begin to tell you the number of women that were victims of domestic violence that have called the Crisis Line back and wanting to drop the charges. It's a revolving door.

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gitana1 said:

He was incarcerated. So he was charged with an actual crime.

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enelram said:

Years ago I was friends w/ a sociologist/counselor who counseled returning VietNam vets who were having difficulties
assimilating back into society. I asked her point blank if the the war and ptsd were the cause of their difficulties and she proclaimed, No, most of these guys were maladjusted BEFORE they went into the military. Her professional opinion.
I think the military (recruiters) overlooks or covers up or hides many problem applicants in order to make their quota.

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gitana1 said:

No. He was incarcerated. So he was charged with an actual crime.

COLORADO SPRINGS — Before a 26-year-old gunman entered a rural Texaschurch with a ballistic vest and a military-style rifle, killing at least 26 people on Sunday, he was convicted of assaulting his wife and breaking his infant stepson’s skull.
In 2012, while stationed at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Devin P. Kelley, 26, was charged with “assault on his spouse and assault on their child,” according to the Air Force.
“He assaulted his stepson severely enough that he fractured his skull, and he also assaulted his wife,” said Don Christensen, a retired colonel who was the chief prosecutor for the Air Force. “He pled to intentionally doing it.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/devin-patrick-kelley-texas.amp.html

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enelram said:

I wonder if we will ever know his diagnosis as a teen and why he was prescribed medication from 6-9th grades.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's not something relatively simple like ADD or ADHD.

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rsd1200 said:

I've been around spoiled, entitled, brats. You see them all the time in all positions and walks of life. Handed everything, from birth, but they don't go around murdering folks. I think this guy had problems early on. His parents may not have known what to do with him. Let him have the apt over the barn b/c it was easier and what are you going to do after age 18? If he hasn't hurt anyone, there's nothing you can do anyway. I have a child with a couple diagnoses that have made life a struggle, for them, and for the rest of us. Love this child with all my heart, but there was never anything that has worked, and after age 18, nothing I could do. Some people assumed we may have spoiled this child, or allowed them to run wild. Nope. No, it wasn't spoiling, it was very hard work, from love, and I failed my child.

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Inthedetails said:

Yes, as more info comes out this afternoon, the picture is becoming clearer. Of course.

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Tbone144 said:

You need a license to carry a concealed handgun or open carry a handgun in TX. The process is very thorough. You get complete fingerprints taken, and you go through an extensive background check that takes weeks. They want to know where you have lived for last 7 years, where you are employed, where you were born, any and all alias used. Heshould also have known from the required training class that if you have ever been convicted of domestic assault you will not get a concealed. Wonder if he thought he was above it or they wouldn’t check him completely. Also if you are not paying your child support you will not get a license.
There is a big list of reasons you can and will be denied.
Castle doctrine allows you to carry in your vehicle and have a gun in your home. The background check is much different to own a gun than to carry a handgun.


Texas is open carry without a license for long guns. Where these modified short barrel rifles fall in that category I don’t know.

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enelram said:

Years ago I was friends w/ a sociologist/counselor who counseled returning VietNam vets who were having difficulties
assimilating back into society. I asked her point blank if the the war and ptsd were the cause of their difficulties and she proclaimed, No, most of these guys were maladjusted BEFORE they went into the military. Her professional opinion.
I think the military (recruiters) overlooks or covers up or hides many problem applicants in order to make their quota.

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Pamela_Brewer said:

Watch as a witness to the Texas church shooting talks about confronting the gunman and chasing him for 11 miles.

More: http://via.fox59.com/t7RUg

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vmmking said:

One thing we know, and that the FBI has known since the 70s, is that animal abuse correlates with violence against humans. This is why, in a more perfect world, Humane workers and social workers would be cross-trained to look for both and we'd have a better reporting/database situation.

(They are working on this now with an animal abuse database through the FBI. However, I believe they only track felony abuse, and most states do not prosecute some pretty serious animal abuse as felony. For instance, in Kentucky it's only felony animal abuse if it's torture. And it's always hard to prosecute animal abuse. Plus, abusing horses and other animals considered livestock are not covered by most abuse laws, but it doesn't make those people any less dangerous.)

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vmmking said:

You read my mind!

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gitana1 said:

Back in the day. Now it's much much harder to get in. Many people want to get into the military. They can pick and choose. He might have scored high on aptitude tests of some kind. And he lied about his psych background and they had no way of knowing?

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rsd1200 said:

Then the gunshop that sold him that firearm last year, might be in some hot water. Wouldn't his blemishes, for lack of a better word, have shown up when they ran his check?

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rsd1200 said:

:tears:

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Cryptic said:

Yes, was incarcerated and also charged. My understanding, however, is that one needs a formal conviction to be placed on the "no buy" list.

Being incarcerated and charged with a disqualifying offense (in short, strongly suspected of "X", but not convicted), can lead to refusal to issue a carry permit. But, being forbidden to buy weapons may well need a formal conviction.

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Inthedetails said:

Yes, he must have had troubles young if he was on medication as a tween. You wouldn't go that route unless there was a reason. What caused his troubles? I don't know, of course, but I do think the troubles have been there for a long time.

My heart breaks over every aspect of this case.

I've mentioned on other WS cases a young man in my neighborhood who showed signs of mental health issues as a little kid. As a tween, he became violent with his own family. The parents are smart, kind, resourceful, caring people....and they were at a complete loss as what to do. THERE IS ESSENTIALLY NO HELP for these families. The boy in my neighborhood is now an adult, living at home, "underemployed" (he has a job but below his capabilities....but he's just too volatile to hold a substantial job).

I see parents who are lost in cases like this...and the problems do not go away when the child becomes an adult. It's almost like a suicide that takes a decade or more to happen for these kids. Worst cases end up being murder as well.

jmopinion, an opinion that might not match yours but it's mine

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Elley Mae said:

Snipped

The gunman had dropped his rifle in the church after slaughtering the parishioners; he pulled a pistol during his exchange with the bystander.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-shooting-church.html

Snipped

After the armed bystander explained the situation, the two took off after the gunman. “He got a little bit of a jump on us. We were doing about 95” — miles per hour — “around traffic and everything. Eventually he came to a slowdown and we got within just a few feet of him and he got off the road.”

Mr. Langendorff said that the gunman lost control of his vehicle. Langendorff parked and the armed bystander drew his rifle, which he kept trained on the gunman’s vehicle until police officers arrived on the scene about five minutes later, he said. The two men had been on the phone with police dispatch during the chase.

The in-laws and Mr. Kelley’s ex-wife were interviewed by investigators last night in Sutherland Springs. They were not in the town at the time of the shooting, according to law enforcement officials.

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