NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #5

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Maybe I'm wrong, but I would bet my bottom dollar our SK does not dismember. Doesn't have the stomach for it. I think he's a man who wants to hold on to his safe, upper crust life, but can't fight the compulsion to murder for sexual gratification (can't help but think of JB's words here, "I've had a good life..."). Whoever our SK is, I absolutely can NOT see him keeping bodies, dismembering bodies, or dirtying his hands any more than he has to. He enjoys the actual killing, the moments between life and death, but once he has a dead body on his hands, I see him overwhelmed by guilt, shame, and fear (can't help but think of our meek Dr. here). He needs to dump these bodies almost immediately and distance himself from his deed...I'd bet my farm on that.

But if I'm right, why do we have bodies that show dismemberment? I don't believe these bodies are the work of our guy. I just don't.

JMO
 
Mountain_Kat said:
Maybe I'm wrong, but I would bet my bottom dollar our SK does not dismember. Doesn't have the stomach for it. I think he's a man who wants to hold on to his safe, upper crust life, but can't fight the compulsion to murder for sexual gratification (can't help but think of JB's words here, "I've had a good life..."). Whoever our SK is, I absolutely can NOT see him keeping bodies, dismembering bodies, or dirtying his hands any more than he has to. He enjoys the actual killing, the moments between life and death, but once he has a dead body on his hands, I see him overwhelmed by guilt, shame, and fear (can't help but think of our meek Dr. here). He needs to dump these bodies almost immediately and distance himself from his deed...I'd bet my farm on that.

But if I'm right, why do we have bodies that show dismemberment? I don't believe these bodies are the work of our guy. I just don't.

JMO
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you know , the dismemberment thing feels off brand.
 
If it is one SK and SG was killed by him, he now knows about the dental jawbone work. May have returned to start removing things that could be identifiable? (And could continue this act from here on out.)
 
21merc7 said:
So, is this saying it took so long due to cutbacks?

I'm not putting anyone or any department down. I was just told by one of the lawyers that one of the counties here (thank goodness I live in the city) has now put all of their officers, detectives, anyone mobile, on the highway to do nothing but write tickets to get some money in the budget. Yes, that is what they are doing, and, there is plenty of crime there, including violent crime! (I am not in NY or anywhere near LI.)
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A little off topic but in regards to police and cities and towns. How many police to total population in their sector? I'm not naive into thinking that I'm special and at any given time the police will be here in 5 minutes of a call I place. They could be busy on other calls, not enough police to respond so they will prioritize in this case. I've heard a police jokingly state but I think there is truth to it and that is. When a county has electric go out for whatever reason ie. storm...why do you think they restore power to the bad sectors first? Yes, CRIME. The last ones to get their power restored are generally the low crime areas. I don't know it was said as a joke but it made plausible sense to me also.

I don't fault police because they have to work with a budget, sorry to say politics is involved in that. This is why "I" live to always be self sufficient in case of an emergency. I cannot rely on police, fire, ambulance in the time of crisis.
 
Mountain_Kat said:
Maybe I'm wrong, but I would bet my bottom dollar our SK does not dismember. Doesn't have the stomach for it. I think he's a man who wants to hold on to his safe, upper crust life, but can't fight the compulsion to murder for sexual gratification (can't help but think of JB's words here, "I've had a good life..."). Whoever our SK is, I absolutely can NOT see him keeping bodies, dismembering bodies, or dirtying his hands any more than he has to. He enjoys the actual killing, the moments between life and death, but once he has a dead body on his hands, I see him overwhelmed by guilt, shame, and fear (can't help but think of our meek Dr. here). He needs to dump these bodies almost immediately and distance himself from his deed...I'd bet my farm on that.

But if I'm right, why do we have bodies that show dismemberment? I don't believe these bodies are the work of our guy. I just don't.

JMO
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That is why I proposed that if there is indeed "a drifter" he may have been allowed in on the fun, i.e. drugs and sex, and later forced to dispose of the bodies. Just some thinking.
 
Lera; That area only has about 40,000 residents. Small in comparison to the city. I completely understand what you are saying above and agree. ^^^

I was curious b/c anyone that lives or has lived in that area would be aware of these facts. Well, even a passer through could probably figure it out given a day or two of walking around. So, crime and dump sites here would click within a short time span for an observant or local person.
 
Filly's post from last thread:

If this is true and this Doctor was indeed the person that made that phone call I am calling BS big time.

First off what did he do? Talked a drug addicted prostitute while she was on a call to getting clean? That's mighty fine of him.

Ethically and morally he would not allow this woman to stay in his home if he did indeed say that. He'd take her for help. Again, what you figured you'd help her out after she turned tricks?

O.K. personally I have seen addicts run for their lives who didn't want to get clean. Who were not ready. Yeah they scream. However the last thing they would do weather prostituting or not would be to call the flippin cops.

God forgive me if some "Doctor" was really such a good Samaritan he was going to help someone, BUT where's the guy work out of his house? He's licensed to care for addicts?

I'd asked this before and it's relevant I think. Was SG a heroin addict or a crack addict or both. My sincere apologies for even having to write those words about some poor woman that is missing.
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One of the things PH has likely done in his former job as police surgeon is deal with other drug users who are paranoid, frantic, or otherwise freaking out when they're arrested or brought in for questioning. It's one of the main things police surgeons do. So he probably was qualified to deal with her if that's what was happening.

Shannon's missing poster from the New Jersey police said, ""Ms. Gilbert is bipolar and is known to use cocaine and marijuana as well as prescription drugs,'' the report adds." From ProjectJason. http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=10497.0
 
Live NEWS 12 reporter just showed divers still in the water and the PC is coming later today...
 
minazoe said:
you know , the dismemberment thing feels off brand.
Click to expand...

There are only 2 reasons a killer dismembers, imo. Either to make a body unidentifiable, or because he views the body as a plaything for his sick fantasies. Our SK seems to have picked victims with no obvious connection to him, so I see no reason for him to step out of his safe zone and dismember to conceal identities. Don't think he views the bodies post-mortem as playthings either. While the victims are alive, certainly, but not after they are dead. After his victims are dead, they are no longer useful to him, in fact, they threaten his safe world...so they are simply discarded like the useless object he views them as.

JMO
 
I know it's a repeat for some, but, FWIW, here is an older article from December 2010, with SG's boyfriend and her driver. There is so much confusion on this issue, I thought this might help:

Boyfriend and the driver of Shannon Maria Gilbert recount hours just before Jersey City woman went missing


The New York driver, who requested his name not be used, said he dropped off Gilbert to the home of a client in Oak Beach at about 2 a.m. on May 1. Gilbert's price: $250 an hour, the driver said.

He said he spent three hours in his SUV outside the gated community, playing poker over the Internet and sleeping, when Gilbert's client phoned him at about 5 a.m., saying Gilbert was refusing to leave the house.

The driver said he drove back to the client's house and found Gilbert, who was clothed, in the living room on the phone with a 911 operator, saying that a man was after her.

"I said 'Shannon, Get a grip. Let's go,' and she said, 'You guys are trying to kill me.' So I said, 'OK, I am leaving.' But then she said, 'Don't go.'"

Gilbert eventually ran from the house, the driver said. The driver said he ran after Gilbert, who is bipolar and has a history of cocaine abuse, but then lost track.

He said drove around the gated community and outside the complex -- texting and calling her furiously on his cell phone -- before leaving the area 6 a.m. and believing that Gilbert would somehow make her way back to Jersey City.

Suffolk police today refused to release the audio or transcripts of the 911 call and provide any information about their response to the call.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2010/12/boyfriend_and_the_driver_of_sh.html
Click to expand...
 
JMO, but I'm sure that many regular citizens can also think of prostitutes as "less than human" and therefore, not to worry, as this will be cleaned up and everything will go back to normal. JMO on why people can be in denial and not affected.:

'Crazy' killings scare some in beach towns

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/04/13/new.york.serial.killings/

"Prostitutes are the most common victims of serial killers," says James Alan Fox, a criminology expert with Northeastern University. The killers view prostitutes as "easy targets" and "psychologically, they can con themselves into thinking that this isn't so bad, because the victims are, in their minds, less than human. It is called dehumanization," he said.
 
Mountain_Kat said:
Maybe I'm wrong, but I would bet my bottom dollar our SK does not dismember. Doesn't have the stomach for it. I think he's a man who wants to hold on to his safe, upper crust life, but can't fight the compulsion to murder for sexual gratification (can't help but think of JB's words here, "I've had a good life..."). Whoever our SK is, I absolutely can NOT see him keeping bodies, dismembering bodies, or dirtying his hands any more than he has to. He enjoys the actual killing, the moments between life and death, but once he has a dead body on his hands, I see him overwhelmed by guilt, shame, and fear (can't help but think of our meek Dr. here). He needs to dump these bodies almost immediately and distance himself from his deed...I'd bet my farm on that.

But if I'm right, why do we have bodies that show dismemberment? I don't believe these bodies are the work of our guy. I just don't.

JMO
Click to expand...

I think you're right -- I think there are two different killers. The other one is older, has been around for longer, at least back to the 1990s when some of the other dismembered bodies were found farther inland in Long Island.

I have to wonder if he's also responsible for other northeastern dismemberment murders, like the Boston nanny, Lady of the Dunes, and even Beth Doe in PA.
 
21merc7 said:
Lera; That area only has about 40,000 residents. Small in comparison to the city. I completely understand what you are saying above and agree. ^^^

I was curious b/c anyone that lives or has lived in that area would be aware of these facts. Well, even a passer through could probably figure it out given a day or two of walking around. So, crime and dump sites here would click within a short time span for an observant or local person.
Click to expand...

Oak Beach has 300, yes three hundred, year round residents
 
21merc7 said:
Lera; That area only has about 40,000 residents. Small in comparison to the city. I completely understand what you are saying above and agree. ^^^

I was curious b/c anyone that lives or has lived in that area would be aware of these facts. Well, even a passer through could probably figure it out given a day or two of walking around. So, crime and dump sites here would click within a short time span for an observant or local person.
Click to expand...
Exactly and the perp surely knew the slow response time would be in is favor. I agree that the SK either lives in the area now or has previously. Most SK first kill are someone they know well, like a neighbor, co-worker, so if they can get the identify all the bodies, find out which one is the first, and can tie it to this SK, then they can start looking at the victims life. I'm sure this SK chose his first because he has history with her.

Heck it could be a garbage, mailman too. I'm baffled and intrigued with this case for sure.

I have to go to PT so will miss the presser...could someone please provide a link or synopsis of presser please.

Thank you
 
NJGuy said:
Waltzing, I apologize but I didn't copy your post before the new thread was posted. Anyway I agree with you and HeinekenMan about the last moments of SG's life, and the phone calls. Did SG ask JB to meet in a public place before the party to size him up for safety? Did JB ask to meet in public because perhaps you need a pass or something like that to get past the gate? And maybe he didn't want a strange car parked in front of his house for hours in the night? Or did someone else at the party drive her to the house afer picking her up? I think there is at least one more person who was there that has not been named yet, possibly more. And did JB give SG's real driver directions to the house when he called him to pick her up? I know alot of girls once they speak with the john on the phone initially, they will then have communication go through the driver or someone else. Typically, what they refer to as a "two-call or three-call system." And was the person who Coletti saw really SG's driver, or someone else from the party that was looking for her? I think there a million questions that haven't been answered, and I can only hope LE has these answers and are building their case first.
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No need for apologies regarding not quoting my post, NJGuy!

Here is something that I cannot get past. IF, Shannan did not appear as she did in her CL photo, (per Jb) and if JB was the John who picked her up at the designated spot....why did JB not turn her away at the time he went to pick her up to take her to his house? He certainly would have a visual or first impression of whether she had 'the look' he was expecting. This is why I question if JB, the john, actually was the person who picked her up from the designated meeting place.

He allegedly ask her to leave his home because seh was not what he expected, yet she was there from 2 am to approx 5 am
before she took of thru the neighborhood? Was she just sitting there for 3 hours not doing her job? I am not buying it!!

I look forward to the presser in 16 minutes. do any locals have a lead to a live stream? thank you.

MOO

wm
 
Wondergirl said:
I know it's a repeat for some, but, FWIW, here is an older article from December 2010, with SG's boyfriend and her driver. There is so much confusion on this issue, I thought this might help:
Click to expand...

It's accounts like that that make me think Shannan was drugged at this "party". No one pulled a knife on her, or tried to strangle her at the house, or she wouldn't have been there sitting on the couch. She would have bolted from that house right then and there, or tried to fight her attacker(s) off. She seems unsure of who is trying to kill her, or how they are trying to kill her to me. And she seems unable to tell who is "in on it" and who isn't. That makes me think she was drugged. She knows something isn't right, but doesn't seem to have the mental capacity to figure out exactly what's going on, kwim?
 
fashionella said:
On these forums, there is always a lot of complaining about budget and cutbacks...take it with a grain of salt..fact remains it's an out of the way location with little police coverage. Another thread blames the dispatcher.
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The neighbor that called 911 obviously gave an exact location so we know there was the "23 mins" she supposedly had with 911 at the 'john's' house & then the time it took for her to leave & start banging on doors..Would that be about 5 mins or so? Could be even less.

If they showed up in "45 mins" then it took them around '22 mins' to get there once they knew where she was..So, how far from "Jones Beach" to the Oak Beach Community? Shannon did say "Jones Beach" right?

But what's even more important to me is if the 'john' overheard her call (IIRC he did) he would know she gave the 'wrong' location but did nothing about it..What does that tell us?
 
I haven't been able to keep up with this case at Websleuths; you all are doing a great job of sleuthing the details around possible suspects, etc. So I don't want to veer the conversation off in the wrong direction, but did anyone else see this article in the NY Daily News ? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...add_twist_to_call_girl_serialmurder_case.html

Check out the first comment (time 9:54 a.m.) by someone named "Shanan" (spelled with one "n") --that's why I wanted to post this. I thought it was a little eerie--but I wonder if what the person says really is true or if someone is trying to present herself (or himself) as Shannan, the missing woman in this search? She talks about having information that could help this case.

Seems like it must be a pretender because Shannan would know how to spell her own name. But then again.....

Again, apologies, I don't mean to be throwing a curveball into your discussion here.

Columbo
 
Mountain_Kat said:
There are only 2 reasons a killer dismembers, imo. Either to make a body unidentifiable, or because he views the body as a plaything for his sick fantasies. Our SK seems to have picked victims with no obvious connection to him, so I see no reason for him to step out of his safe zone and dismember to conceal identities. Don't think he views the bodies post-mortem as playthings either. While the victims are alive, certainly, but not after they are dead. After his victims are dead, they are no longer useful to him, in fact, they threaten his safe world...so they are simply discarded like the useless object he views them as.

JMO
Click to expand...

there may be some "Practical" reasons he dismembered victims. One that comes to mind is if he for some reason couldn't dispose of them right away - and he needed to store them in a freezer or something, it could have required cutting them up to get them to fit.
 
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