Casey and Family Psych Profile #11

Leila said:

Casey and Casey alone is responsible for the murder of her daughter, Caylee. From a legal perspective, Casey is solely responsible for the death of Caylee.

George and Cindy, as Casey's parents, are responsible for raising a child to adulthood who lies, steals, and is totally irresponsible.

As parents, it's our duty to instill in our children the qualities that make a good person as an adult.......the concept of right and wrong, honesty, responsibility, integrity, respect, law-abiding, making good decisions, etc. Children need discipline - punishment for wrong-doing and rewards for good behavior. They need structure and guidance from both parents. They need goals. Both parents need to work at raising children as a team.

Although we don't know much about Casey as a young child and teen, we do know that she didn't complete high school, she worked in a Kodak kiosk for about two years. She became pregnant, and at 7 months into her pregnancy, Cindy was denying the pregnancy to family members when it was only too obvious she was pregnant. Two months later, Caylee was born. We know that Casey lied to everyone about having a job, having a nanny, and lied to her parents often about where she was and what she was doing. Some of her lies were very elaborate. At the same time, Casey was stealing from friends and family. We know that Cindy and George made excuses for Casey's lies and thefts.

Casey's behavior did not happen overnight. It's more than likely that there were behavior problems with Casey, even as a young child. There is no indication that George and Cindy ever attempted to curb Casey's behavior as a normal parent would do. To the contrary, we have Cindy stating that it's not a crime to lie, and calling lies "mistruths" as if this is somehow a softer, gentler, term for lying. We know that Cindy never did anything about Casey's thefts. George never took the initiative to do anything.

If Casey is truly a sociopath, then nothing is going to change her. A sociopath is a personality disorder and cannot be "cured." But, I've read that a sociopath's behavior can be modified with discipline and structure.

George and Cindy failed miserably in raising Casey. Just from what we've seen in the past almost two and a half years, I strongly doubt George and Cindy made any attempts to give Casey the discipline and structure she needed to become a responsible adult.

If Casey is truly a sociopath (and I think she is) would it make a difference if she had the discipline and structure as a child and teen? That's something we'll never know. But, it's obvious that because Cindy and George never challenged the adult Casey's lies and didn't make her take responsibility for her thefts, Casey was comfortable with telling more lies and continued stealing.

Had Cindy and George reported her thefts and allowed Casey to go through the experience of being arrested, charged, spending a few months in jail, and having to pay fines and restitution, that might have brought Casey's thefts to a halt. If Cindy was serious about obtaining custody of Caylee, that would have been the grounds for obtaining custody right there.........the child's mother is in jail for theft.

I believe there's one other dynamic at work here too. I don't think Cindy wanted Casey to succeed. If Casey became a responsible adult, had a good job and was earning enough to support herself and Caylee, she would eventually be able to move into an apartment and become independent of her parents. I think Cindy's goal was to keep Casey dependent on her.

So, while Casey is solely responsible for the murder of Caylee, her parents bear responsibility for raising Casey to believe that lying and stealing are acceptable. George and Cindy are responsible for their lack of parenting.

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BBM. Excellent post. You definitely said it better than I could. I did want to comment on the bolded passage, though. I don't think it's that Cindy didn't want Casey to succeed, I think she truly believed that Casey couldn't succeed without Cindy's help. My mom was sort of this way with me. There were a lot of things she wanted for me, but I don't know that she actually believed those things were attainable for me. When I moved to Oklahoma, it ripped her heart out. I don't think she thought I would make it all so far away from home with her close by to help out. Thankfully, I've proved her wrong time and again, and I think she's finally happy with the daughter she has, not the daughter she wishes I could be.

I think Cindy was much the same way, except she still hopes Casey can be the daughter she wants Casey to be. She has not given up on that yet. I do think she resigned herself to the fact that Casey was not going to be an upstanding member of society, and that she would always have to help or bail her out. This doesn't mean that she didn't want those same things for Casey. She just believed Casey would never attain them without Cindy's help, tinged with hope that maybe somehow with a miracle Casey would change and finally be the daughter Cindy wanted her to be.

Then Caylee came along, and Cindy believed this was the miracle that would change everything for Casey. Cindy tried desperately to fool herself into believing now that Casey had a child, she would be responsible and raise that child herself. But again, Casey proved Cindy wrong. However, Cindy continued in her denial, wanting to only see Casey the way Cindy wanted to see her, ignoring everything Casey did wrong in the vain hope that Casey would finally be the mother and citizen Cindy wanted her to be. I think the counselor finally helped to break Cindy out of that spell, and Cindy finally realized that Casey wasn't who she wanted and was desperate for Casey to be. Otherwise, Cindy would have to admit her failings as a parent, and she's never been able to do that.

I think the fight was Cindy's last desperate attempt to get Casey on the straight and narrow. Casey had to be the person Cindy wanted and needed her to be. The only problem is, that was the first time Cindy was serious in Casey's entire life. It was far too little, way too late. Casey instead chose get rid of her perceived problem with her mom, which was Caylee.

I do think that Cindy needs to be needed, as does my mom, but I also think she believed Casey was always going to be her problem to deal with too. I think she thought it would be easier to control Casey if Casey lived at home. It'd be a lot harder to clean up Casey's messes if Casey didn't live with her. I do think she had a lot of wants for Casey too. Casey is her twin, her mini Cindy. She just couldn't and still can't let go of that. But at the same time, the twin she wants is a daughter she'll never have. She only had her dreams to keep those hopes alive, and she's clung to those dreams and hopes for too long.

I think she knows who Casey is. Maybe she never thought Casey would be a murderer, but she knows that her daughter is a liar and thief. She just chose to indulge into a fantasy of what she wanted her daughter to be for too long. And poor Caylee paid the price for Cindy's wants. I think that is where the guilt for Cindy comes in. She knows what she let Casey get away with, and wishes she could go back and change things, desperately wanting that. But again, it's something she knows she can't have. I think that's why she supports Casey so much. She blames herself for how Casey turned out, and if Casey were to be put to death, then she would really have lost Casey forever.

I do think she's desperately hoping that maybe prison will change Casey for the better, though. I think that's why she's been halfhearted about really proving Casey innocent. She knows Casey has to suffer a real consequence for once. I think for the first time she thinks Casey can get help outside of Cindy. She'll never admit that to the public, but believe me, there is no way she wants Casey back at home, doing the same things she did before. She wants a responsible, reformed Casey back at home.

Surely now that Casey's spent over two years behind bars, she's finally going to be the daughter Cindy has always wanted and needed. They can put this whole ugly thing behind them and live the life Cindy has always wanted to live. Unfortunately, Casey hasn't changed one bit. I think deep inside, Cindy knows this, or she would really be campaigning hard for Casey's freedom. Deep inside, she's glad Casey is not her problem anymore. I do think she still has the smallest flicker of hope that she's wrong, though. And that is what keeps her going everyday and showing up at the hearings to get a glimpse of Casey. She truly believes this is a new chapter in Casey's life, and convinces herself of that everytime she sees Casey in court.

Otherwise, she has truly failed, Casey is truly lost and will never change, and honestly, I don't think Cindy would have any more reason to live. She has put everything into Casey, all her wants and dreams. She refuses to let go of that because to let go of it, to know that Casey is going to be put to death, is something I believe would kill Cindy.

This all goes to show that kids should be loved for who they are, not who their parents want them to be. Unfortunately, Cindy is still caught up in who she wants Casey to be. Casey hates her because she'll never love the real Casey, and Casey will never be what her mom wants her to be.

As bad as everyone may believe GA is, I don't think he was that bad. I think the family agreed to blame GA to cover for KC. They do not want to testify KC has taken them for that amount of money. Same as they did not want to admit KC was pregnant to their family. If CA were to have told her mother KC is writing checks, stealing my credit cards, etc. I would think SP would have told CA to keep her away from her home and SP would have given KC cash instead of a check for her birthday.

KC spent 2 1/2 years without a job pretending she had an income. That money came from somewhere. Gas, eating out with friends, parties, clothes, shoes, baby supplies. It came from someone. It's crazy to think you are going to go through $40,000 and not know someone is stealing from you. Do it once, shame on you. Do it twice, shame on me. The A's are to blame for what they are dealing with. CA should have known you can't put a bandaid on a gusher. KC was way out of control and they did nothing, nothing to stop her. A crime waiting to happen. jmo

From the first CA/ICA phone call we heard it was pretty evident how ICA treated her mother, the disdain in her voice, and CA having to baby-talk her when asking for information - 'Well SWEETHEART' CA said in the whiniest little voice, like she was very used to the fact that ICA was a bully who must not be challenged. ICA was furious that CA would tell journalists that they didn't know what her (ICA)'s involvement in all this was. Of course CA was stating that from the standpoint of an abduction investigation, whereas ICA knew she was really guilty of a murder, and her angry response givces a bit of that away.
If you want to know about CA and ICA listen again to that first phone call. The contempt from ICA is palpable.

I think George is pretty easy to figure out. He's a lazy, weak character. He is also not very bright. His only redeeming quality to me is he's a terrible liar, which means he can feel shame and has a semblance of a conscience. He did not marry well.

Cindy did marry the person who suited her. She needed a lazy, weak character that she could push around. And that's what she got. All my opinion.

ZsaZsa said:

From the first CA/ICA phone call we heard it was pretty evident how ICA treated her mother, the disdain in her voice, and CA having to baby-talk her when asking for information - 'Well SWEETHEART' CA said in the whiniest little voice, like she was very used to the fact that ICA was a bully who must not be challenged. ICA was furious that CA would tell journalists that they didn't know what her (ICA)'s involvement in all this was. Of course CA was stating that from the standpoint of an abduction investigation, whereas ICA knew she was really guilty of a murder, and her angry response givces a bit of that away.
If you want to know about CA and ICA listen again to that first phone call. The contempt from ICA is palpable.

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Yes ICA's contempt for CA is unmistakable. Do you also recall Cindy gloating, almost breathlessly exhilarated (or so it seemed to me) about her 3 cameo's on TV? WTH?! Her beloved "sweetheart" was behind bars, facing a possible murder charge, and she's boasting about being on TV????

affinity said:

I know that CA herself will be reading this thread (Hi Cindy!) and she'll scan it, looking only for some "supportive" words (there won't be many).

I "know" CA really well, I was raised by a Mother just like her. I have a post here somewhere about the day my high school called a conference with my Mother and around 8-9 of my teachers....(to let my Mother know that I was cutting school and going to flunk out completely). Well, I was scared to death, as most 16 year olds would be, but instead of being mad at me, when the meeting was over and we reached the parking lot together my Mother started in on the people who called the meeting! She ranted and raved about THEM (can you believe it? Well, I was relieved, but like KC, I didn't finish high school with my class!) THANKS, MOM for the many mixed signals.

Let's be clear, over the years I hated my Mother just like KC hate(s) CA. When I hear the venom in KC's voice toward her Mother, I hear my own voice. It was many many many years later that I got it together and somewhat appreciated the other good qualities my Mother had (she had many)....but teaching responsibility certainly was not one of them. Like CA, my Mother relished praising me to the hilt (usually for my looks) and then watching me crash and burn in every other department, so she could completely lord it over me later. My Mother and CA totally love(d) the feeling of superiority they got playing these head games. By the way, both CA & my Mother were/are Gemini and my Mother fit that sign to the max. One minute she hated me the next she lovvved me (especially if people were "watching").

Here's something you need to know. My Mother NEVER accepted any blame for anything. And I can guarantee that CA never will either. Both my Mother and CA fit Borderline Personality Disorder also to the max). I now KNOW why my Mother developed a personality disorder (and it's grim business)....but what about CA? What happened to her to make her so she will never see her part in this???? My guess (based on my own experience, so it may be projection) is some manner of abuse in her own developing years. People like CA & my mother "won't take any crap from anyone!" In my Mother's case it was because she was violated. I never knew that until it was way too late to have a "regular" Mother/Daughter relationship and I'm not sure I would have been able to understand why she had to treat me like crap, because she had been harmed. I understand now....but I might not have then.

Sorry for the long essay, just wanted you to know, CA won't accept a shred of responsibility for Caylee's demise. That's one reason why she surrounds herself with her own yes people instead of hanging out with anyone who could help her.

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Respectfully Quoted affinity
BBM
Please explain that to me. I have several people in my life(or not in my life)who hurt (I have assumed)because they were hurt. My hurt, causes me to not want to hurt. What's up with that? TIA

ZsaZsa said:

I love your last paragraph. It is very difficult to be a good parent, it means you have to withstand being disliked, resented and often hated, when dealing with an unruly teenager. Your mother was willing to suffer that so that you would not come to any harm from your immature decisions and have good character. Where CA failed was she did not do that, she wanted to be popular, to be her BFF as she calls her, and in doing so became an enabler.
No one in the family was allowed to challenge this; when GA tried to point out to CA that ICA was not working at Sports Authority he got scolded and told not to 'spy on her'. CA did not want to know.
When ICA failed to graduate school CA went to the school and complained -to her mind it was obviously the school's fault
When Lee sold ICA his car that he had paid for with his own money, she only made 2 payments, but when he wanted to get confrontational with her about it CA again intervened.
When ICA stole from her Grandmother and Grandfather what did CA do? Lied about it, repaid them out of her own account.
When ICA ran up $40k of debt, CA paid it off, emptying her IRA to do so.
When ICa stole from Amy, CA described it as "a misunderstanding between friends'.
Her lifelong pattern of enabling ICA had to have consequences. ICA felt contempt and loathing for CA directly because of it, and she bears a huge responsibility for the way ICA turned out, a huge responsibility for not facing what was going on when ICA was 'working' ie staying out all night. She and GA should have stood their ground and confronted her.
She should have called DCF, but she wanted to remain 'popular' with ICA.
She didn't even achieve that.

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Solace said:

I hear ya! And then I do remember that she is implicating Amy and Jesse and Tony and Ricardo - all who had nothing to do with this. Lee along with his mother and also George. So I lose all sympathy for them when I realize they are willing to do anything even implicate the innocent.

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jennyb said:

Custody issues aside... Cindy could have certainly called the car in stolen way before the 31 days and requested a wellness check. She knew Casey had no means to take care of the baby "Who is taking care of the angel now?".

And the one thing that stands out to me, always, is the way Cindy and George started taking money from media and the public so quickly. That just flies in the face of a person in shock and grief. I just don't know what to make of that woman. A pragmatist extraordinare? That's some kind of pragmatism. Well Caylee's gone, nuthin' we can do about that so let's rake in the dough.

I just don't see that as any kind of love or caring or grieving I've ever seen... ever!

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ZsaZsa said:

How many families refuse lie detector tests and seek immunity when their grandchild is 'missing'. How many prevent Tim Miller from talking to the mother- the last person to see the child- for information? Then leave threatening phone messages for him and defame him in public?
Once you start on this kind of list it boggles the mind what a hideous family they really are.

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jennyb said:

Daycare AND a full-time babysitter would've been less costly to Cindy's bank account than what Casey was lifting from her.

I don't get it. Only thing I can come up with is it was a contest of wills being more important than the welfare of a child. The TRUE welfare of a child. Cindy had to bend Casey to her will at all costs. That's all I can come up with because nothing else makes any sense.

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MissJames said:

I don't think Cindy wanted custody ,either. Control,yes!,but not actual custody.

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Respectfully Quoted Websleuthers! :blowkiss:

I agree with all that was said above. I find Cindy responsible on levels that must be spoken of in depth. Cindy's behavior, i.e. throwing people under the bus: comes very close to being as bad a being a murderer, IMHO. Anyone, anyone who is willing to put upon another, something so awful that you do not wish to accept the resposibility yourself: shows you are responsible by wanting to blame others. I think Cindy's own actions, after the fact(blessings in heaven Caylee Marie)show she believes she is at fault for Caylee. She will never really admit that to herself, and she will never admit it to the world or anyone else. But, like the tell tale heart we can all see how Cindy's behaviors betray her.

I agree with the mother(s)who have said it was Cindy's job to get her daughter help. I also agree with people posting who have said that Cindy needed help for herself, first. Rick, Cindy's brother said what I feel: Cindy and George let Casey be this way. I don't think Cindy is legally responsible for the death of Caylee Marie: but again, I agree with those that say she is responsible on a human level.

JG: And if something accidentally happened to Caylee I literally believe that Casey would have an emotional breakdown, a metal breakdown to the point where I almost believe that she would take Caylee and put her somewhere and then uh, tell herself a new story, a new reality of what happened to her.
LE: Because she's been living in a false reality for years?
JG: Correct. So I don't think its that far out of the spectrum. I think, I think if something happened to Caylee, her one toe that she'd had in reality for the last couple years, her one foot would be gone and she would be completely in her own separate world. And I think uh, that's because Casey directly has some issues that mentally she's never gotten taken care of. So I, I do believe something accidentally happened. Uhm, choke on a piece of dog food, eat a rock...
(end snip)

Jesse knew Casey had issues. George told Richard Grund that Casey had issues. IMHO, Casey has issues. Jesse tells us this as he is talking about how Casey didn't really watch Caylee. Who has this many examples of how a child could die when speaking about a good mother? "eating rocks, eating dog food, getting in the pool by herself, being left alone in her play pen and in the yard while Casey was on the computer, leaving Caylee on a balcony while she was in a bedroom with a guy..."

I am sorry but this shows everyone knew. What else leads to a child's death(other than natural causes)but neglect! And, Jesse(bless his good and decent loving heart)just can't wrap his mind around the idea that Casey's issues made her evil-they just made her irresponsible(?) I am not a mother so I will take anything you all have to say to me about this but: a mother who is this disengaged from their child(in front of others)is all but saying she wants her child dead. In my very humble opinion. :truce:

The mentally unstable raising the mentally unstable. I know we don't want to say that Casey is insane. I understand that she is not insane in the sense that we diagnose a mental illness and think of a person who has committed a crime and could not help themselves. Andra Yeats(sp?)comes to mind. She did not try to cover up what she had done.

What are Casey and Cindy? Evil. Evil isn't some demon. Evil is doing the opposite of what life needs to prosper. Good, nurtures life. All life. Evil seeks to destroy.

Cindy raised Casey. Casey killed Caylee. They are two separate sentences but they go in the same story. It does not mean that all mothers who have children who do wrong are responsible for their children's actions. But you can't take the parent out of the story. And, if Cindy feels so strongly connected to Casey that she defends her out of her own need for self survival, then we know how emeshed they are and Cindy can't have been that shocked Casey did what she did. I think Cindy is no stranger to physical violence with Casey.

And, as I quoted about Cindy(the shocked grieving grandmother and innocent mother to ICA)she sure had her "mind" about her enough to get on that money train! Innocent women who by no fault of their own raise a sociopath: wouldn't be so quick to accuse other people of murder. What if this was a little different and Cindy's plan had worked? She was prepared to see an innocent person-

maybe go to their deaths-to save ICA/herself. Guilty and evil. If Cindy were not at least in part responsible, we would not even be talking about it. Look what Cindy was doing. Her story is as sorted as Casey's and the only difference is that Casey killed who she thought was in her way and Cindy was not able to accomplish that. The woman who was willing, and is still willing to blame LE and innocent people for the death of her granddaughter is the same woman who raised Casey.

I have said this so many times, sorry, but it just makes sense. When a child graduates from college or is successful in any way: not a soul hesitates to attribute that success to the wonderful parenting done by the parents. The successful child usually, all most always-gives credit to their parents. So, how can we take the credit away from Cindy and George?

Casey and Cindy can think people are jealous all they want, no one is jealous of what they have created. Cindy, in the latest letters to Casey were were privy too, states that Lee knew what LE "would do." Meaning, trying to keep Casey in jail so she will crack and confess to something she did not do. Cindy gives Casey the advice to not let them get to you. What Cindy doesn't know or doesn't care about is the state is no longer trying to get Casey to admit anything. Even now, Cindy has no idea of how to parent. She didn't keep her daughter "safe" anymore than Casey did for Caylee.

Cindy had/has choices. Casey had/has choices. They are each responsible for their own actions, which led up to what happened to Caylee. And, coming to the conclusion that Cindy is, in part, responsible for what happened to Caylee(non legally or legally)does not mean that all parents that have children who(as adults)break the law: are responsible in the way that it is being said that Cindy is responsible. I can see good parents, in a bad situation-uneducated and financially unable to help their troubled child. But, again: this was not the situation in the Anthony home.

Cindy does not listen to nor tell the truth to her own mother. I think Cindy is the first ICA, it just took her longer to murder her daughter.

:cow:

Chiquita71 said:

Respectfully Quoted affinity
BBM
Please explain that to me. I have several people in my life(or not in my life)who hurt (I have assumed)because they were hurt. My hurt, causes me to not want to hurt. What's up with that? TIA













Respectfully Quoted Websleuthers! :blowkiss:

I agree with all that was said above. I find Cindy responsible on levels that must be spoken of in depth. Cindy's behavior, i.e. throwing people under the bus: comes very close to being as bad a being a murderer, IMHO. Anyone, anyone who is willing to put upon another, something so awful that you do not wish to accept the resposibility yourself: shows you are responsible by wanting to blame others. I think Cindy's own actions, after the fact(blessings in heaven Caylee Marie)show she believes she is at fault for Caylee. She will never really admit that to herself, and she will never admit it to the world or anyone else. But, like the tell tale heart we can all see how Cindy's behaviors betray her.

I agree with the mother(s)who have said it was Cindy's job to get her daughter help. I also agree with people posting who have said that Cindy needed help for herself, first. Rick, Cindy's brother said what I feel: Cindy and George let Casey be this way. I don't think Cindy is legally responsible for the death of Caylee Marie: but again, I agree with those that say she is responsible on a human level.

JG: And if something accidentally happened to Caylee I literally believe that Casey would have an emotional breakdown, a metal breakdown to the point where I almost believe that she would take Caylee and put her somewhere and then uh, tell herself a new story, a new reality of what happened to her.
LE: Because she's been living in a false reality for years?
JG: Correct. So I don't think its that far out of the spectrum. I think, I think if something happened to Caylee, her one toe that she'd had in reality for the last couple years, her one foot would be gone and she would be completely in her own separate world. And I think uh, that's because Casey directly has some issues that mentally she's never gotten taken care of. So I, I do believe something accidentally happened. Uhm, choke on a piece of dog food, eat a rock...
(end snip)

Jesse knew Casey had issues. George told Richard Grund that Casey had issues. IMHO, Casey has issues. Jesse tells us this as he is talking about how Casey didn't really watch Caylee. Who has this many examples of how a child could die when speaking about a good mother? "eating rocks, eating dog food, getting in the pool by herself, being left alone in her play pen and in the yard while Casey was on the computer, leaving Caylee on a balcony while she was in a bedroom with a guy..."

I am sorry but this shows everyone knew. What else leads to a child's death(other than natural causes)but neglect! And, Jesse(bless his good and decent loving heart)just can't wrap his mind around the idea that Casey's issues made her evil-they just made her irresponsible(?) I am not a mother so I will take anything you all have to say to me about this but: a mother who is this disengaged from their child(in front of others)is all but saying she wants her child dead. In my very humble opinion. :truce:

The mentally unstable raising the mentally unstable. I know we don't want to say that Casey is insane. I understand that she is not insane in the sense that we diagnose a mental illness and think of a person who has committed a crime and could not help themselves. Andra Yeats(sp?)comes to mind. She did not try to cover up what she had done.

What are Casey and Cindy? Evil. Evil isn't some demon. Evil is doing the opposite of what life needs to prosper. Good, nurtures life. All life. Evil seeks to destroy.

Cindy raised Casey. Casey killed Caylee. They are two separate sentences but they go in the same story. It does not mean that all mothers who have children who do wrong are responsible for their children's actions. But you can't take the parent out of the story. And, if Cindy feels so strongly connected to Casey that she defends her out of her own need for self survival, then we know how emeshed they are and Cindy can't have been that shocked Casey did what she did. I think Cindy is no stranger to physical violence with Casey.

And, as I quoted about Cindy(the shocked grieving grandmother and innocent mother to ICA)she sure had her "mind" about her enough to get on that money train! Innocent women who by no fault of their own raise a sociopath: wouldn't be so quick to accuse other people of murder. What if this was a little different and Cindy's plan had worked? She was prepared to see an innocent person-

maybe go to their deaths-to save ICA/herself. Guilty and evil. If Cindy were not at least in part responsible, we would not even be talking about it. Look what Cindy was doing. Her story is as sorted as Casey's and the only difference is that Casey killed who she thought was in her way and Cindy was not able to accomplish that. The woman who was willing, and is still willing to blame LE and innocent people for the death of her granddaughter is the same woman who raised Casey.

I have said this so many times, sorry, but it just makes sense. When a child graduates from college or is successful in any way: not a soul hesitates to attribute that success to the wonderful parenting done by the parents. The successful child usually, all most always-gives credit to their parents. So, how can we take the credit away from Cindy and George?

Casey and Cindy can think people are jealous all they want, no one is jealous of what they have created. Cindy, in the latest letters to Casey were were privy too, states that Lee knew what LE "would do." Meaning, trying to keep Casey in jail so she will crack and confess to something she did not do. Cindy gives Casey the advice to not let them get to you. What Cindy doesn't know or doesn't care about is the state is no longer trying to get Casey to admit anything. Even now, Cindy has no idea of how to parent. She didn't keep her daughter "safe" anymore than Casey did for Caylee.

Cindy had/has choices. Casey had/has choices. They are each responsible for their own actions, which led up to what happened to Caylee. And, coming to the conclusion that Cindy is, in part, responsible for what happened to Caylee(non legally or legally)does not mean that all parents that have children who(as adults)break the law: are responsible in the way that it is being said that Cindy is responsible. I can see good parents, in a bad situation-uneducated and financially unable to help their troubled child. But, again: this was not the situation in the Anthony home.

Cindy does not listen to nor tell the truth to her own mother. I think Cindy is the first ICA, it just took her longer to murder her daughter.

:cow:

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Wow, wonderful post.

What a wonderful post Chiquita !

There are so many wonderful posts on this thread. Every time I read here, I feel like I learn something new about this very complex and dysfunctional "family".

I have always felt that (in Cindy's mind) there is no separation between her and Casey. Cindy has no sense of self. She and Casey are one and so what others say about Casey, they are saying about Cindy. By defending Casey, she is really defending herself, IMO.

When Cindy lied to her family about Casey's very obvious pregnancy, what message did that send to Casey ? This is just one example though, think about all of the other "examples" Cindy provided for Casey over the years. I'm not giving Casey a free pass here, she will pay for what she has done. I just wish that the other morally responsible persons would pay too.

JG: I think, I think if something happened to Caylee, her one toe that she'd had in reality for the last couple years, her one foot would be gone and she would be completely in her own separate world. And I think uh, that's because Casey directly has some issues that mentally she's never gotten taken care of.
(end snip)

RG: Um, and I said you know George, wha, which, which what has your daughter gotten involved in? He goes, "ah I don't know she's always had issues"...that's always been, that's always his statement, Casey has issues. Um, and then we talked about the smell in the trunk and I said if it's not Caylee George, who is it? He goes, "ya know, I don't know."
(skip)
...and then he kind of blurted out about the whole job thing. He said, "you know we, I knew she didn't have any of these jobs."
(skip)
..."I've discovered most of the jobs she's told us she never had." Which of course, I made a mental note of, that means you knew she wasn't workin' So if she has a nanny, who's paying for her? (Exactly)
(end snip)

AD: I mean she's not that smart. She just, I mean we all knew, everyone knew that Casey lied. Like everyone did. We all knew. We didn't believe her. What was the truth, we didn't know but we just, there was never, we didn't believe her. I don't, I don't know how to anymore explain it. It's just(chuckles)...
(skip)
AD: (on why she and Casey had stopped being friends) I don't like being betrayed.
(end snip)

AH: ...and knowing Tony and his friends and the kind of music that all of a sudden Casey started listening to, not music that I like. (June 21st entry in diary: "I have new friends") And Casey was obviously very, very good at keeping things separated, at keeping people knowing what she wanted them to know."
(skip)
AH: Always had an explanation. We never had to ask. We'd just talk about it. She'd also talk about the fact that she was so upset that she'd barely been able to see Caylee lately. But it's just, you know, its better for her. She's you know, playing and having fun. They're going everywhere. They'd gone to you know, Busch Gardens for a while. And she was like; "you know, they're just having fun. So at least she's in a good place and not involved in all this other stuff," made up stuff all this other stuff is happening.
(skip)
AH: She said she was worried. She said she hadn't seen Caylee, she hadn't talked to Caylee in over a month. Uhm, Casey kept saying, "She's fine. She's with the nanny." Uhm, and pretty much you know, said that she thought Casey was an unfit mother and that if this goes on much longer that she would sue for custody of Caylee if it got to that.
(end snip)

GA: Now in the last two, two and a half months, these same friends that she's had for, since she's been a little one, have been over to our house. They've been out of the picture. Maybe she might call them, but then she tells a lie upon lie, upon something else to get them going in different directions.
(end snip)

JG: ...who knows the real Casey? I think only she does, I think her personality has been so changed and molded over the years, I don't know if even she knows who she is.
Q: And, and if Casey by some chance is watching, watching this interview this morning what would you want to say to her?
JG: Ah, Casey tell the truth ah, this isn't about you anymore this is about Caylee, uhm stop dragging people's lives through this, stop destroying people's lives and tell the truth. What happened to Caylee? Because we are all done with having to listen to your lies and your stories that make no sense, over and over and over again. So tell the truth about what happened.
(end snip)

:websleuther:

doogiesgirl said:

ZsaZsa-

Everything you post is true and I agree with. But there is something about GA that gnaws at me......IDK what exactly it is though. In the beginning and for a long time, I used to think GA this long suffering, hen-pecked husband. CA is obvious in her disfunction but with GA I've come to feel there is something hidden, something sneaky & devious, and that he has used the "hen-pecked, long suffering, powerless husband" mask to his benefit. Like he presents this front for people to see him as impotent, powerless in regards to his wife & children. But....as time went on I guess I began to wonder if I had been completely duped by him. I can't explain exactly what I mean. Does anyone else get this feeling about GA?

MOO

Click to expand...

IMO George is hen pecked, powerless and long suffering but I believe he's probably been powerless and pecked so long (I think he probably had a mother much like Cindy) that he turned into a con man a loooong time ago (probably around the same age range Casey turned into a con-girl). A using, lying, stealing, sneaky, blameless man child who is only interested in what he's gonna get out of something and someone. IMO He's probably never lived any other way (like his daughter). They are still victims in some sense but they learn pretty quickly how to turn it around and take advantage of the people who are pecking them. Anyone who's ever claimed to love 'em have treated 'em like ***** and tried to control everything about 'em so they look for their own ways to have some control. My guess is George doesn't even know who or what he is (he never had a chance to find out.. much like his daughter) He is Casey all grown up had she not killed her daughter. IMO

Oakley said:

Yes ICA's contempt for CA is unmistakable. Do you also recall Cindy gloating, almost breathlessly exhilarated (or so it seemed to me) about her 3 cameo's on TV? WTH?! Her beloved "sweetheart" was behind bars, facing a possible murder charge, and she's boasting about being on TV????

Click to expand...

thank you because that is what stands out most for me about that phone call! Cindy excited and proud about her Cameo's!

strawberry said:

I completely agree...and that's why I watch too! The ARE Cindy and Casey! Poor Jace.

Click to expand...

I know. Janelle's mom reminded me so much of what people said about CA---taking the baby first at the birth, taking Caylee in her lap to open her presents at her Bday party, having her call HER mommy. Those are very rude and crazy
mean things to do to your own daughter.
Janelle's mom does very similar things and it is not going to end well, imo.

MissJames said:

You know,I always agree with you ,so I'm kind of shocked to say I don't agree comepletely on this one :innocent:
I think Cindy sees KC and knows KC better than anyone else. When it suited her,she was perfectly happy to tell KC's friends that she was a sociopath and a thief. Cindy was happy to complain to her co-workers about KC,when it suited her.
IMO,this is about keeping up appearances,to the extreme. Let's go back to Rick's wedding. Cindy knew KC was pregnant.Not only was she obviously showing,but from interview transcripts we know George was told about it months before.Even so,Cindy took KC to the wedding and lied when family members asked.
Why take KC to the wedding at all? I've always been curious about that. IIRC,Rick wasn't expecting KC at the wedding.
I think Cindy simply expects,simply DEMANDS people believe her,much like KC when she walked down that hallway at Universal.

Both Cindy and KC seem to think that if they tell a lie/story often enough,include lots of details, and just stick with it , people will believe it,and if they don't there's something wrong with THEM, not with her.
You see,as far as Cindy and KC are concerned,it's a perfectly good,believable story and that's the only thing that should matter.

Yeppers,I really think Cindy sees KC for exactly what she is and what she's done.
What she won't believe is that the rest of the world knows KC now It's no longer Cindy's little weapon to use against KC when it suits her.
.For some reason Cindy still thinks she ,alone,can convince us otherwise.

I'm thinking this might change when the bus starts heading her way during the mitigation hearing after the guilty verdict.

Okay,time for fftobed:

Click to expand...

Maybe then we'll find out why police were called to the Anthony house several times way before this all started.....
I think ICA will be spilling the beans on CA big time.

strawberry said:

I completely agree...and that's why I watch too! The ARE Cindy and Casey! Poor Jace.

Click to expand...

ITA as well,I almost can't bear to watch it ,it reminds me so much of KC and CA

doogiesgirl said:

ZsaZsa-

Everything you post is true and I agree with. But there is something about GA that gnaws at me......IDK what exactly it is though. In the beginning and for a long time, I used to think GA this long suffering, hen-pecked husband. CA is obvious in her disfunction but with GA I've come to feel there is something hidden, something sneaky & devious, and that he has used the "hen-pecked, long suffering, powerless husband" mask to his benefit. Like he presents this front for people to see him as impotent, powerless in regards to his wife & children. But....as time went on I guess I began to wonder if I had been completely duped by him. I can't explain exactly what I mean. Does anyone else get this feeling about GA?

MOO

Click to expand...

i do,i do! Ive always felt something not genuine about ga. i believe that caseys behaviors come from ga. he seemed to me like he was acting in some of his taped interviews and the looking out into the woods and the heavy breathing and sighing when he would speak. almost like overemphasizing certain things for the dramatic effect. Ive always felt that his shame has come in seeing his own behaviors in his daughter. OT but anyone notice the eerie similarity in ga and ica's handwriting. I just think ga and ica are more alike than ca and ica.

GA is the sickest one of the family - His failure as a husband and father has had unthinkable consequences . He is a total fraud through and through - I realized it
when he was checking his pulse before the grand jury testimony - he was playing to the cameras what father would do that if his child and family were of any importance to him. Everyone assumes he told the truth there but I doubt it .
We know now that most of the A stories about George are total lies and fabrications
to cover up an unflattering truth .
George is no victim of Cindys ...... he is a volunteer ....... and given the choice he would choose her again & again
- NO decent woman wants GA ...........

sharpar said:

Everyone assumes he told the truth there but I doubt it .

Click to expand...

I so agree. I think folks assume because he went in, testified, and she was promptly indicted that somehow he was the trigger. I have no reason to believe that AT ALL. I think he most likely lied that day, and lied badly. If anything the Grand Jury probably saw right through him. Pitiful liar that he is.

He looked extremely agitated going in and to me he looked highly relieved coming out. Some would say he was unburdened because he told the truth. I think he was relieved because he wasn't asked a particular question he feared. If he didn't lie outright then I believe he lied by omission. He certainly wasn't going to offer up any information he wasn't directly asked.

After that day he was bouncing around just like the same old George talking about Caylee being seen 9 times with the "nice kidnappers" and all his other b.s.

I just don't think he's the one who put the nail in her coffin at the hearing.

Just my take on it because of course none of us can say for sure.

Rick Plesae
August 21st, 2008

RP: She hasn't worked there for a year and a half. Well, then my mom told me that uh, Cindy had threatened Casey with, with taking Caylee away from her.
(skip)
RP: She goes, "uh, what about Caylee?" She says; "can't, I can't kick my granddaughter out on the street and because Casey would try to take her."
(skip)
RP: So I know, I know Cindy a couple of times had threatened Casey, this is through my mom, that if Casey didn't behave and straighten up she would throw her out on the street and file for custody.
(skip)
RP: I said, how many times? And she said at least two or three that she definitely got in fights with, with Casey uh, about about taking Caylee off of her. So I know Cindy is not telling you the whole truth here...
LE: Right
(skip)
RP: And she, so when Casey first took Caylee away Cindy told my mom she just thought Casey took Caylee to punish her, or you know just being uhm you know, threatening her all the time and and uh, but Cindy didn't think a whole lot about you know, that, that Caylee's well being was, was ever going to be in jeopardy.
(skip)
LE: They just thought that she was gone out of spite and that's it?
RP: Well, yeah that, that Casey was just holding her off and, and said that oh, she's with uh, the babysitter or some, something, you know and, and she was always doing something that just wasn't convenient for her to talk to Cindy.
(skip)
RP: I said, how do you, why would you abandon a car if it ran out of gas and not tell anybody? And then...why would you go to a, a nightclub if, if your daughter is missing?...you know and party and have fun? I would be so distraught I, I would and the first people I call would be my mom and dad saying, I can't find my daughter.
(skip)
RP: George was there too. He believed it too. They believe everything that Casey says. It's like, are they blind? I'm, I'm, uh, my last email to her I go, "you guys will go down in history as the stupidest parents in the universe."
(skip)
RP: I said, you would see right away, I said Casey is the answer here. She's the only one that knows what she did with Caylee and if she doesn't talk, my god, shake the crap out of her.
(skip)
RP: Uh, my mom and uh, Cindy confirmed it yesterday when she was blasting me. She goes, "you don't even know how much I took out of my 401K." And I said, it was like uh, fifty-six thousand or fifty, fifty-two or fifty-six thousand dollars she took...
(skip)
RP: And I said, look all I want is the facts to come out, I said, I don't think you've told all the facts here. And I said I'm not trying to hurt you. I said, I still love you. And I said, but this has gone on long enough. There's a little girl missing here that, I said, in my gut I feel is dead. I said, that, that is my gut feeling and, and it, and its really bothering me that, I said your daughter is in jail and she isn't saying anything. And I said that makes me madder than anything.
LE: Hmm
RP: And the fact that you cover it up that she tried to steal from mom and dad, and then Cindy goes, "oh, she wrote, she only stole 50 bucks." And I said, I wrote her back and I said, "no, no." I said, mom told me its 354.00 from Dad's account, that's an account that couldn't, couldn't be gotten into. And uh, I said you were called on it because mom called and yelled at you and told you to do something with Casey. You didn't do anything. And I said, its your fault that all this happened because you didn't sit on Casey like you should have.
(skip)
RP: Well uh, I, I absolutely knew that Casey knew she wasn't fooling me one bit. And I even, I, and my step-son here from my wife, he was in our wedding and, and he looked at her and he goes, "do you know who the daddy is?" And she just looked at him and smiled. So she, she knew who, that she was pregnant.
(skip)
RP: I, I would say this about Casey. If she sees something or hears something she will spin it into her own little world to make it work for her, whatever kind of lie it is. And Cindy was on her back trying to find out who this, who the father was when it wasn't Jesse.
(skip)
RP: Well anything that happens in her family, if, if anything good happens everybody knew about it. Okay, the whole family knew about it. Like Casey got a promotion and all this. Casey um, was supposed to be some kind of human resource, uh head of human resources or you know...so I mean we always heard the good news.
(skip)
RP: Yeah. She threw him out of the house. She just said, "you know what? I, I don't need you here." She said, "I have enough problems with, with uh the baby on the way and stuff", or the baby was there. Let's see. It might have been shortly after the baby was born or something. Anyway, she threw him out of the house. And they were out of the house for a while. And then he filed for divorce first and was filing for half the house and, and alimony because he wasn't working. And that, that made her mad and, anyway, they, they reconciled.
(skip)
RP: I would describe it as Casey resented Cindy she resented Cindy to the point where she could see that Caylee likes Cindy way better than she likes her.
(end)

:websleuther:

George Anthony
8/24/2008

GA: And, and, and I can appreciate what you guys do. I mean sure the stuff that my wife has said, I kept on telling her, if you guys ever watch me I'm, I'm, I try to be quiet. But I try to also get her to(inaudible). Because when we go to these things I'm like this is what Lee, Cindy and myself talked about. This is what we need to say. This is what we need to do, keep it brief, short to the point. Let these guys work for us. Now they're getting, now its, they're dogging us and they're working against us now.
LE: Uh-hum
GA: And they should be helping you and they should be helping us...
LE: Yeah
GA: ...find her. And that's, and that's the...
LE: And uh, well the problem is that the situation, with all due respect, was created by Cindy.
(skip)
GA: I've never met this Tony, I don't want to meet this Tony because I'm afraid I'm going to bite into this Tony. I, I, I don't want to see the man.
LE: Uh-hum
GA: I don't want to see him. I'm, I'm, I'm staying out of it. I'm not doing anything stupid. I'm concentrating on fliers and media stuff that...I don't, I don't want to talk about...that's the way it should be.
(skip)
GA: Well, I do know that, or at least what I was told by this guy by the name of Jesse, who's never been a big fan of mine, believe me. I'm not trying to get him involved, but he got himself involved in this thing from what I understand.
(skip)
GA: Oh, she reached and I talked to her for "x" amount of minutes. Okay, and what'd you guys talk about? "Well, she needed my help and I'm on the other side of town. And I know she was on that side." How did you know she was on this side, on our side, on the east side?
LE: Uh-hum
GA: "Well, I just figured she was." I said, don't make assumptions on somebody. She could be right next door to you pal.
LE: Uh-hum
GA: And that's a different issue. But I found this Tony. I guess she ended up calling him right away and (snaps fingers)he beat feet where he's at somewhere, wherever he lives at. I'm not, I can't think of where he lives. I don't care.
LE: Well we do, but go ahead. :giggle:
GA: You know I guess he's right there for the rescue.
(skip)
GA: But I guess the reason why I am here today is I, I'm just having a hard time grasping what my wife is doing to you guys and I apologize.
(skip)
LE: When I first saw you that night when I first came to your house there was mention of the car. And there was mention of what you smelled in the car.
GA: I, I, I believe that there's something dead back there. And I hate to say the word human. Uh, I, I hate to say that. (skip) I mean the law enforcement stuff that I did, we caught people out in the woods, in a, in a car. So I know what it smells like. Its a smell that you never...
LE: Uh-huh
GA: ...never get rid of. When I first went there to pick up that vehicle, I got within three feet of it I could smell something. You look up and you say, please don't let this be. Please don't let this be. Because may...I'm thinking of my daughter and granddaughter first. I glance in the car on the passenger side, I see her seat's there and I see some other stuff around in it. And as I walk around to the driver's side and I put the key in it, I said, please don't let this be what I think it is. The wrecker, I don't know what the gentleman's name. I still don't know. I'm sure you guys know it by now. But he, and I opened up the door and he said, "Whoa does that stink." I said, I sat in the car for a second. I opened up the passenger door because I was trying to vent that thing.
(skip)
GA: As I walked around, I don't believe I said to him you know, aloud and I, I think I whispered out to myself. "Please don't let this be my Caylee." That's what I thought. That's what I m my heart was saying. I opened it up and that's when I seen that bag. I did see a stain. I think its right about where the spare tire was at. Basketball size, or something around there. I don't know if its exactly circular.
(skip)
GA: So that's what I, I said. They guy said, "Sir I'll take care of that. I'll get rid of it." But the smell never went away. When I drove around I told my wife, I said, this car stinks so bad I can't, I don't know how I can drive it home. Its, its raining outside. Oh, well I have the windows down in the car probably about this much(inaudible). I couldn't freaking breathe.
(skip)
LE: What did your, what did your wife think about it being when she first noticed it? Did she actually notice it, or did she make any comments on it?
GA: Oh, after we pulled inside the garage she said, her exact words were, "Jesus Christ what died?" That's exactly what she said. But then she said it in a way, she says, "George, it was the pizza right?" And I said, Yeah, it was the pizza. And that's what I left it go at that, but I'm sitting here as the grandfather, as the father, as George Anthony and as a guy who smelled the smell before years ago and you just never forget it. I even stuck my nose down on it and I'm, I'm concerned. So...
(skip)
GA: Now, my, my daughter lives on the edge. You know that from all the, the lie, the lies. All the contradictions. And my daughter takes things as far as she can take them.
LE: Uh-hum
GA: And then she piles on some other stuff.
(skip)
GA: So she mentioned a couple of different times, she said, "Caylee cares for you more for a mom than she does me." We never said that. Cindy never said she was the mom. I never said I was the dad or anything like that. So, they've had their moments. I haven't been around all the times they've gotten into it but...but a lot of times they've gotten into it, is because of Casey not being where she was supposed to have been. The lying about working.
(skip)
GA: And, and I(inaudible) and this, well and I even asked this Ryan, god what's Ryan's last name? Hasting? Yeah. I asked Ryan, I said, Ryan did you work with Casey? "No she doesn't work here." I said, well then how in the hell did she make...Oh, did we tell you about a report supposedly that she was at gunpoint...
(skip)
GA: She's an adult. I've got no control over her.
(skip)
GA: Right. Because when she started coming clean with the money she was taking and this and that coming up, yeah, she balled. I mean she literally balled. She didn't, because we, we just kept on catching her in stuff.
(end)

:websleuther:

jennyb said:

I so agree. I think folks assume because he went in, testified, and she was promptly indicted that somehow he was the trigger. I have no reason to believe that AT ALL. I think he most likely lied that day, and lied badly. If anything the Grand Jury probably saw right through him. Pitiful liar that he is.

He looked extremely agitated going in and to me he looked highly relieved coming out. Some would say he was unburdened because he told the truth. I think he was relieved because he wasn't asked a particular question he feared. If he didn't lie outright then I believe he lied by omission. He certainly wasn't going to offer up any information he wasn't directly asked.

After that day he was bouncing around just like the same old George talking about Caylee being seen 9 times with the "nice kidnappers" and all his other b.s.

I just don't think he's the one who put the nail in her coffin at the hearing.

Just my take on it because of course none of us can say for sure.

Click to expand...

Wow, I had never thought of it this way before. But you're right. It never made sense to me that he would be honest with the Grand Jury but never at any other time. It makes far more sense the way you put it. I totally agree with you on this. He was relieved because he thought he had pulled one over on the Grand Jury, and didn't have to answer any really hard questions about the situation. He must have been shocked when the Grand Jury came back so fast and indicted her. And I know Casey probably still thinks he betrayed her, and I have the sneaking suspicion that Cindy has not said otherwise to Casey. Cindy might think he betrayed Casey too, and probably didn't believe him when he said he hadn't.

And OMG, the nice kidnappers thing. That was just lunacy. I couldn't believe he was thinking some nice kidnapper family was taking care of her somewhere. He didn't say it exactly like that, but close to it. That was just the most bizarre thing he has ever said. I always wanted to ask him, so George, Casey is terrified of this nice loving family that has Caylee somewhere? I swear, that man doesn't think much before opening his mouth. That's probably why it's been closed for so long now.