SharetheLight
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Where is everyone? THis forum has gone incredibly silent lately.
Is anyone out there??
Is anyone out there??
Lyons Sisters Q & A
- Thread starter shipmatekate
- Start date
I just returned from another state where I went for a funeral.
I can't answer all the questions about the Lyon family that have been asked recently, although I do know that John and Mary have remained together all these years. They were on Television together for several of the "anniversary" year news shows about the disappearance of their daughters.
In 2000, after the girls had been missing for 25 years, they had a bronze marker for them placed in a small cemetery somewhere in Montgomery County. It had their names and birthdays and the date they went missing.
Motherof5
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Does anyone know if the nursing home employees were questioned, even the ones not working that day? Also regular visitors that could have known that kids like to cut through the woods.The girls would have passed right buy there.
Police went door to door all along the route normally taken by the girls. They questioned any and all persons and asked permission to search yards and homes.
I cannot say for certain if all Nursing Home employees were questioned, but have a feeling that they police did question them. There was (and still is) a pond in the grounds of the nursing home and police divers searched it very thoroughly. They found nothing, however.
SharetheLight
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I think if the nursing home were involved it may be a regular visitor that took the girls. Someone who was there a lot and noticed the path kids took to and from places. Purely happenstance.
They wouldn't necessarily be questioned.
They wouldn't necessarily be questioned.
Motherof5
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SharetheLight
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I have a question about Mileski, the guy who killed his wife and oldest son, and claimed to have knowledge about this case.
If it can be answered and the answer fits better in another thread like possible connections or somewhere else, please anyone feel free to post an answer to any thread it may relate to.
A while back there was some discussion about Mileski and his possible involvement in this case. There were posters here that had some knowledge about his dealings with LE and there was some discussion here between posters about that.
When I read the posts I got confused as to when exactly Mileski first claimed to have knowledge of this case. I thought one person said it was in 2001, and another thought it was prior to 1978. And I think someone else thought he had the info prior to 1978 but didn't tell LE until 2001.
Or maybe there was some consensus as to the timing of his claims and I missed it in my confusion. To avoid further confusion I will ask my question as if I am asking the parties involved, understanding I wouldn't actually ask them this, I am just trying to get a better understanding of the timeline here
My question is, if Mileski were still alive and I asked him :
(1) when he first obtained information as to who was involved in the lyon abduction, and
(2) when he first told someone else he had information about the lyon case
what would he say? I got confused as to when he made his claims to someone, when someone gave him info, and when all this came to the attention of LE. were these jailhouse confessions??
And if I asked LE:
(1)when they first learned Mileski had information regarding the lyon case, and
(2) who told LE that mileski had information, mileski himself, or an anonymous person. what would they say.
I am interested in trying to get these facts straight because I think if mileski told someone prior to 1978, that he had information about the lyon case, and if an anonymous tip brought that fact to the attention of LE in 2001 whatever info mileski had is most likely factual.
He would have no reason to lie or try to reap benefit from his admission that he had info about this case in 1978. He hadn't committed or been convicted of any crime at that point. And if an anonymous tipster told LE he had info, then Mileski wasn't trying to use his knowledge to help him gain comforts while serving his sentence for murder.
But the flip side is if Mileski didn't tell anyone prior to his conviction that he had knowledge about this case and/or if he was the one who came to LE after his conviction with this info, then he would be using the info for personal gains and that info may or may not be factual.
Does this make sense??
If any of the posters who previously discussed Mileski's involvement could answer/clarify these bits of info for me it would help me determine the level of credibility to assign to Mileski.
He did manipulate/make deals with LE for a transfer before he'd give them info. He got his transfer, I can only speculate he gave them some information.
Any clarification to the timing of his admissions and who brought forth this admissions is most appreciated.
Totally off topic: Does anyone know why Mileski killed his wife and older son, but took a younger son to a neighbor's house or the hospital. I think there were 2 more kids, maybe one was at a neighbors and another was injured slightly when Mileski shot the older son and wife and Mileski drove him to get medical attention.
When Mileski was tried for this crime was any motive given or speculated about?? From everything I've read, it seems the guy was pretty upstanding, and then one day he kills his wife and oldest son. What made him break that day??
Not so off topic I guess is if the answer is Mileski was just nuts then all credibility goes out the window as to him having knowledge about this case.
If it can be answered and the answer fits better in another thread like possible connections or somewhere else, please anyone feel free to post an answer to any thread it may relate to.
A while back there was some discussion about Mileski and his possible involvement in this case. There were posters here that had some knowledge about his dealings with LE and there was some discussion here between posters about that.
When I read the posts I got confused as to when exactly Mileski first claimed to have knowledge of this case. I thought one person said it was in 2001, and another thought it was prior to 1978. And I think someone else thought he had the info prior to 1978 but didn't tell LE until 2001.
Or maybe there was some consensus as to the timing of his claims and I missed it in my confusion. To avoid further confusion I will ask my question as if I am asking the parties involved, understanding I wouldn't actually ask them this, I am just trying to get a better understanding of the timeline here
My question is, if Mileski were still alive and I asked him :
(1) when he first obtained information as to who was involved in the lyon abduction, and
(2) when he first told someone else he had information about the lyon case
what would he say? I got confused as to when he made his claims to someone, when someone gave him info, and when all this came to the attention of LE. were these jailhouse confessions??
And if I asked LE:
(1)when they first learned Mileski had information regarding the lyon case, and
(2) who told LE that mileski had information, mileski himself, or an anonymous person. what would they say.
I am interested in trying to get these facts straight because I think if mileski told someone prior to 1978, that he had information about the lyon case, and if an anonymous tip brought that fact to the attention of LE in 2001 whatever info mileski had is most likely factual.
He would have no reason to lie or try to reap benefit from his admission that he had info about this case in 1978. He hadn't committed or been convicted of any crime at that point. And if an anonymous tipster told LE he had info, then Mileski wasn't trying to use his knowledge to help him gain comforts while serving his sentence for murder.
But the flip side is if Mileski didn't tell anyone prior to his conviction that he had knowledge about this case and/or if he was the one who came to LE after his conviction with this info, then he would be using the info for personal gains and that info may or may not be factual.
Does this make sense??
If any of the posters who previously discussed Mileski's involvement could answer/clarify these bits of info for me it would help me determine the level of credibility to assign to Mileski.
He did manipulate/make deals with LE for a transfer before he'd give them info. He got his transfer, I can only speculate he gave them some information.
Any clarification to the timing of his admissions and who brought forth this admissions is most appreciated.
Totally off topic: Does anyone know why Mileski killed his wife and older son, but took a younger son to a neighbor's house or the hospital. I think there were 2 more kids, maybe one was at a neighbors and another was injured slightly when Mileski shot the older son and wife and Mileski drove him to get medical attention.
When Mileski was tried for this crime was any motive given or speculated about?? From everything I've read, it seems the guy was pretty upstanding, and then one day he kills his wife and oldest son. What made him break that day??
Not so off topic I guess is if the answer is Mileski was just nuts then all credibility goes out the window as to him having knowledge about this case.
In response to your questions, I reprint the following post which I put on the "Potential Suspects and Persons of Interest" thread in 2006:
Individual of Interest: Raymond Rudolph MILESKI, Sr.
Raymond Rudolph MILESKI, Sr.
Raymond Rudolph Mileski Sr. is a convicted murderer serving a life sentence in the Maryland Prison system. He is linked to the Lyon Sisters, because of claims that he has made on several occasions. Those stories have some varience to them, but basically Ray states that he knows who the abductor/murderer of the girls is.
A story about Montgomery County Police digging in the backyard of the Mileski home at 5816 Suitland Road was in the Washington Post in April 1982, but only briefly. It was only one of many momentary mentions of the Lyon Sisters in news stories over the years. At the time, nothing much came of it. The story told of police digging test holes for about three hours in response to tips from convicts, and that nothing was found. That story makes specific reference to the address and to it being in response to a tip from Maryland Prison Inmates, but it does not mention Mileski's name.
On 19 November 1977, following an ongoing family argument, Raymond Mileski Sr. shot his oldest son with a high power rifle in the basement of their home. When his wife, Dolores, ran down the stairs into the basement room, he shot her too. The bullet passed through her, through a wall and into the mouth of their 7 year old son, Peter, who was running down the stairs behind his mother. Mileski left his wife and older son for dead and transported Peter to Andrews Air Force Base for emergency treatment. Leaving him there, Mileski, drove to the home of a neighbor where his middle son Karl was visiting. He told Karl to stay where he was and then turned himself in to police.
Mileski, while in prison, had evidently told a story to other convicts that he knew who had abducted and killed the Lyon Sisters, these cons repeated the story to MCP investigators. Montgomery County Police dug test holes in the Mileski backyard for three hours and found nothing. End of story? Not quite.
In 2001, an anonymous tip to police named Mileski as having told others prior to his 1978 murder conviction, that he was in some way involved in the Lyon Sisters disappearance. Many elements of this tipster's story were checked out and found to be accurate.
Mileski, contacted in Prison in 2001, admitted in two letters that he did in fact know who the abductor of the Lyon Sisters was. He did not name anyone, but gave a general description of the area in which the girls were buried. Mileski made general statements, but clearly wanted to negotiate for a prison transfer before he would speak with investigators.
Mileski, in his second letter, referred to the girls' abductor as "C.D." and claimed to have met this individual "in the pen". The letter was a long and rambling one and it contained a demand that he be moved from his Baltimore area prison to the Western Correctional Facility in Cumberland, MD. These letters were forwarded to MCP detectives.
The most intriguing thing about a possible PG county connection is that the sketch of "Tape Recorder Man" was recognized by 15 mothers of young girls who had been approached by a man at Iverson Mall and at Marlow Heights Shopping Center on 22 March 1975, three days before the Lyon Sisters disappeared. The Washington Post reported that from one to three PG men were questioned, but that they were not considered suspects at the time. Those sightings place the primary suspect (Tape Recorder Man) right in the close proximity of Mileski, his home, and his alleged associates.
Police most likely spoke with Mileski. He was transferred to Cumberland after 2001, and he died there in December 2004.
It is hard to determine if Mileski actually knew anything about the Lyon case, or if he is just making it all up for his own advantage.
It is my opinion that Mileski was the likely source of the previous tip from other convicts, and that it may have been stories that he told prior to 1977 which surfaced in the 2001 website tip. He certainly claimed knowledge of it in his letters. But whether he actually had any first hand knowledge, or involvement in the girls' disappearance remains part of the mystery.
Individual of Interest: Raymond Rudolph MILESKI, Sr.
Raymond Rudolph MILESKI, Sr.
Raymond Rudolph Mileski Sr. is a convicted murderer serving a life sentence in the Maryland Prison system. He is linked to the Lyon Sisters, because of claims that he has made on several occasions. Those stories have some varience to them, but basically Ray states that he knows who the abductor/murderer of the girls is.
A story about Montgomery County Police digging in the backyard of the Mileski home at 5816 Suitland Road was in the Washington Post in April 1982, but only briefly. It was only one of many momentary mentions of the Lyon Sisters in news stories over the years. At the time, nothing much came of it. The story told of police digging test holes for about three hours in response to tips from convicts, and that nothing was found. That story makes specific reference to the address and to it being in response to a tip from Maryland Prison Inmates, but it does not mention Mileski's name.
On 19 November 1977, following an ongoing family argument, Raymond Mileski Sr. shot his oldest son with a high power rifle in the basement of their home. When his wife, Dolores, ran down the stairs into the basement room, he shot her too. The bullet passed through her, through a wall and into the mouth of their 7 year old son, Peter, who was running down the stairs behind his mother. Mileski left his wife and older son for dead and transported Peter to Andrews Air Force Base for emergency treatment. Leaving him there, Mileski, drove to the home of a neighbor where his middle son Karl was visiting. He told Karl to stay where he was and then turned himself in to police.
Mileski, while in prison, had evidently told a story to other convicts that he knew who had abducted and killed the Lyon Sisters, these cons repeated the story to MCP investigators. Montgomery County Police dug test holes in the Mileski backyard for three hours and found nothing. End of story? Not quite.
In 2001, an anonymous tip to police named Mileski as having told others prior to his 1978 murder conviction, that he was in some way involved in the Lyon Sisters disappearance. Many elements of this tipster's story were checked out and found to be accurate.
Mileski, contacted in Prison in 2001, admitted in two letters that he did in fact know who the abductor of the Lyon Sisters was. He did not name anyone, but gave a general description of the area in which the girls were buried. Mileski made general statements, but clearly wanted to negotiate for a prison transfer before he would speak with investigators.
Mileski, in his second letter, referred to the girls' abductor as "C.D." and claimed to have met this individual "in the pen". The letter was a long and rambling one and it contained a demand that he be moved from his Baltimore area prison to the Western Correctional Facility in Cumberland, MD. These letters were forwarded to MCP detectives.
The most intriguing thing about a possible PG county connection is that the sketch of "Tape Recorder Man" was recognized by 15 mothers of young girls who had been approached by a man at Iverson Mall and at Marlow Heights Shopping Center on 22 March 1975, three days before the Lyon Sisters disappeared. The Washington Post reported that from one to three PG men were questioned, but that they were not considered suspects at the time. Those sightings place the primary suspect (Tape Recorder Man) right in the close proximity of Mileski, his home, and his alleged associates.
Police most likely spoke with Mileski. He was transferred to Cumberland after 2001, and he died there in December 2004.
It is hard to determine if Mileski actually knew anything about the Lyon case, or if he is just making it all up for his own advantage.
It is my opinion that Mileski was the likely source of the previous tip from other convicts, and that it may have been stories that he told prior to 1977 which surfaced in the 2001 website tip. He certainly claimed knowledge of it in his letters. But whether he actually had any first hand knowledge, or involvement in the girls' disappearance remains part of the mystery.
SharetheLight
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According to the post above Milesi while in prison after killing family members in 1977, told other inmates he knew who took the lyon sisters. And these inmates told MCPD in 1982. I understand this and it makes sense.
from above post:
Mileski, while in prison, had evidently told a story to other convicts that he knew who had abducted and killed the Lyon Sisters, these cons repeated the story to MCP investigators.
Here is where I get confused.
From the post above:
In 2001, an anonymous tip to police named Mileski as having told others prior to his 1978 murder conviction, that he was in some way involved in the Lyon Sisters disappearance. Many elements of this tipster's story were checked out and found to be accurate.
Did he tell others prior to entering jail? It just states prior to his conviction, but I assume he was kept in jail pending his trial. And was Mileski ever in jail for anything prior to killing his family members?
What I really want to know is did this tipster tell police that Mileski told "others" about his involvement in the Lyon case when he was a free man on the street. And what "elements" of the story were checked?
As far as the PGTRM connection is concerned, i would think the detectives, who had the sketch that was recognized by moms in pg county, could determine whether or not mileski resembled the sketch or not. I'd guess they didn't think he did.
Another question I have, from the post above:
Mileski, contacted in Prison in 2001, admitted in two letters that he did in fact know who the abductor of the Lyon Sisters was. He did not name anyone, but gave a general description of the area in which the girls were buried. Mileski made general statements, but clearly wanted to negotiate for a prison transfer before he would speak with investigators.
Mileski, in his second letter, referred to the girls' abductor as "C.D." and claimed to have met this individual "in the pen". The letter was a long and rambling one and it contained a demand that he be moved from his Baltimore area prison to the Western Correctional Facility in Cumberland, MD. These letters were forwarded to MCP detectives.
My question about this is, initially I assumed when Mileski was contacted in prison, it was by LE. I notice you state the letters were forwarded to MCP detectives, so he was contacted by someone other than LE.
How did this person who contacted Mileski know that tips came into LE at the same time?
Richard, are you saying that contact was made with Mileski by someone other than LE to confirm the tip that came in? In the above post you state "In 2001, an anonymous tip to police named Mileski as having told others prior to . . ." so if it were an anonymous tip that came in to LE, how was anyone else aware of this??
I am just trying to make sense of all the he said, she said in this Mileski connection.
And here is where I get lost again.
from the above post:
Police most likely spoke with Mileski. He was transferred to Cumberland after 2001, and he died there in December 2004.
It is hard to determine if Mileski actually knew anything about the Lyon case, or if he is just making it all up for his own advantage.
It is my opinion that Mileski was the likely source of the previous tip from other convicts, and that it may have been stories that he told prior to 1977 which surfaced in the 2001 website tip. He certainly claimed knowledge of it in his letters. But whether he actually had any first hand knowledge, or involvement in the girls' disappearance remains part of the mystery.
Richard here you clearly state that the tip may have initiated from stories told prior to 1977. This tells me BEFORE mileski saw the inside of a jail cell. What does Mileski have to gain by telling these stories (if they are untrue) prior to him ever committing a criminal act. I don't think he would be making up stories for his own advantage when prior to 1977 there would be no advantage to him telling these stories, it was only to his advantge after spending time in jail. AND it wasn't Mileski who brought this knowledge to LE, it was always an anonymous source which tells me Mileski wasn't searching for favors.
Richard, I think you disagree with this point and I'd like to know what personal gain you feel Mileski could get by telling this story prior to committing a criminal act.
And lastly again just for clarification, Richard how do you know he told these stories prior to 1977? Is there a source for this info?
BTW, I can't find any information out there about Mileski, except the information posted here.
Don't mean to put you on the spot Richard, it's just this last fact is key to me believing there may truth to Mileski's claims. Add to that the fact that he was transferred and I believe he told LE something useful.
IF Mileski made no mention of his knowledge of the lyon case prior to entering jail, I'd be extremely weary of his claims for obvious reasons. The admission PRIOR to 1977 is what interests me.
Do we know why Mileski killed his son and wife? It seems he was after his son, because he shot him when they were alone in the basement. The wife ran downstairs and he took a second shot which killed wife and inadvertantly injured another son. He got treatment for younger son. So it seems his target was the oldest son and possibly the wife.
Is it possible that Mileski had information about the Lyon case and his eldest son stumbled upon this information, or proof of this information, and Mileski snapped.
Granted he turned himself in, but I'd think in jail he'd fair better as someone who killed his son and wife vs. someone who abducted and killed 2 young girls. I know that thought is warped, but I am trying to make sense of this.
from above post:
Mileski, while in prison, had evidently told a story to other convicts that he knew who had abducted and killed the Lyon Sisters, these cons repeated the story to MCP investigators.
Here is where I get confused.
From the post above:
In 2001, an anonymous tip to police named Mileski as having told others prior to his 1978 murder conviction, that he was in some way involved in the Lyon Sisters disappearance. Many elements of this tipster's story were checked out and found to be accurate.
Did he tell others prior to entering jail? It just states prior to his conviction, but I assume he was kept in jail pending his trial. And was Mileski ever in jail for anything prior to killing his family members?
What I really want to know is did this tipster tell police that Mileski told "others" about his involvement in the Lyon case when he was a free man on the street. And what "elements" of the story were checked?
As far as the PGTRM connection is concerned, i would think the detectives, who had the sketch that was recognized by moms in pg county, could determine whether or not mileski resembled the sketch or not. I'd guess they didn't think he did.
Another question I have, from the post above:
Mileski, contacted in Prison in 2001, admitted in two letters that he did in fact know who the abductor of the Lyon Sisters was. He did not name anyone, but gave a general description of the area in which the girls were buried. Mileski made general statements, but clearly wanted to negotiate for a prison transfer before he would speak with investigators.
Mileski, in his second letter, referred to the girls' abductor as "C.D." and claimed to have met this individual "in the pen". The letter was a long and rambling one and it contained a demand that he be moved from his Baltimore area prison to the Western Correctional Facility in Cumberland, MD. These letters were forwarded to MCP detectives.
My question about this is, initially I assumed when Mileski was contacted in prison, it was by LE. I notice you state the letters were forwarded to MCP detectives, so he was contacted by someone other than LE.
How did this person who contacted Mileski know that tips came into LE at the same time?
Richard, are you saying that contact was made with Mileski by someone other than LE to confirm the tip that came in? In the above post you state "In 2001, an anonymous tip to police named Mileski as having told others prior to . . ." so if it were an anonymous tip that came in to LE, how was anyone else aware of this??
I am just trying to make sense of all the he said, she said in this Mileski connection.
And here is where I get lost again.
from the above post:
Police most likely spoke with Mileski. He was transferred to Cumberland after 2001, and he died there in December 2004.
It is hard to determine if Mileski actually knew anything about the Lyon case, or if he is just making it all up for his own advantage.
It is my opinion that Mileski was the likely source of the previous tip from other convicts, and that it may have been stories that he told prior to 1977 which surfaced in the 2001 website tip. He certainly claimed knowledge of it in his letters. But whether he actually had any first hand knowledge, or involvement in the girls' disappearance remains part of the mystery.
Richard here you clearly state that the tip may have initiated from stories told prior to 1977. This tells me BEFORE mileski saw the inside of a jail cell. What does Mileski have to gain by telling these stories (if they are untrue) prior to him ever committing a criminal act. I don't think he would be making up stories for his own advantage when prior to 1977 there would be no advantage to him telling these stories, it was only to his advantge after spending time in jail. AND it wasn't Mileski who brought this knowledge to LE, it was always an anonymous source which tells me Mileski wasn't searching for favors.
Richard, I think you disagree with this point and I'd like to know what personal gain you feel Mileski could get by telling this story prior to committing a criminal act.
And lastly again just for clarification, Richard how do you know he told these stories prior to 1977? Is there a source for this info?
BTW, I can't find any information out there about Mileski, except the information posted here.
Don't mean to put you on the spot Richard, it's just this last fact is key to me believing there may truth to Mileski's claims. Add to that the fact that he was transferred and I believe he told LE something useful.
IF Mileski made no mention of his knowledge of the lyon case prior to entering jail, I'd be extremely weary of his claims for obvious reasons. The admission PRIOR to 1977 is what interests me.
Do we know why Mileski killed his son and wife? It seems he was after his son, because he shot him when they were alone in the basement. The wife ran downstairs and he took a second shot which killed wife and inadvertantly injured another son. He got treatment for younger son. So it seems his target was the oldest son and possibly the wife.
Is it possible that Mileski had information about the Lyon case and his eldest son stumbled upon this information, or proof of this information, and Mileski snapped.
Granted he turned himself in, but I'd think in jail he'd fair better as someone who killed his son and wife vs. someone who abducted and killed 2 young girls. I know that thought is warped, but I am trying to make sense of this.
To answer your questions, you have to understand that many websites and tip hot-lines offer a guarantee of anonymity to persons who come forward with information. This does not necessarily mean that the tipster's identity is unknown, only that it is his or her choice to remain anonomous for whatever reason.
Such was the case when a person contacted a missing persons website with information about the Lyon sisters. This person actually gave a lot of information about Mileski, his associates, and about the Lyon sisters' disappearance.
The information was given to a website Point of Contact (POC) who in turn contacted me, since I had authored the website's case file on the Lyon sisters.
Many things "checked out" as far as I could tell. That is, this person seemed to know certain details, while not knowing the whole story as it had been stated in newspapers. One thing in particular was that Mileski's home address was stated by the informant. The Washington Post had mentioned the same address in their 1982 article about the search of the yard, but Mileski's name was never mentioned.
The informant knew names, but could never give any correct spellings of those names. Some of those names (of alleged Mileski associates) were tracked down and they all proved to have criminal records and addresses in the area of Mileski's house. A lot of information had nothing to do with the Lyon sisters, but checked out just the same, such as one associate had been injured in a shooting at a certain time.
The informant spoke several times with the website POC, and all information was passed on to me, and I passed it on immediately to the Montgomery County Detective in charge of the Lyon investigation. The detective was not overly enthusiastic about the information, nor was he one to give us any information in return.
Basically, the informant stated that all the information had come second hand from a person who had been about 16 years-old at the time of the Lyon sisters' disappearance. Supposedly, this boy (age 18 by November 1977) had heard things from Mileski about the Lyon case and about who had been involved in their abduction, murder, and burial.
This 16-year-old boy was a boarder at the Mileski house and evidently worked for Mileski in some capacity. Investigation into the Mileski case indicated that Mileski and his wife had been having frequent arguments about a "boarder" and that these arguments had resulted in his smashing their Television set a few days prior to the shootings of his wife and sons.
When Montgomery County Police seemed to dismiss the tip out of hand as a crank call, the website POC - on his own iniative - located Mileski in a Baltimore prison and decided to write to him. Surprisingly, Mileski wrote back, indicating that he did have some knowledge of the Lyon case. This initial exchange of letters was intercepted by the prison warden, who forwarded copies of the letters to Montgomery County Police.
When copies of those letters arrived at police headquarters, the MCP detective became very angry and he contacted the POC and threatened to charge him with obstruction of justice by interfering with an on going investigation. Unfortunately, by this time a second exchange of letters had taken place and Mileski had indicated that he was willing to talk in exchange for a transfer to a different prison.
Because of the MCP detective's threat to charge him with obstruction, the POC gave both of the origional Mileski letters to a lawyer who wrote to MCP stating that they could have the letters if they came to his office and signed for them. There may have been a provision in the receipt document stating that they would not prosecute the POC for his iniative in getting Mileski to write the letters in the first place.
Ray Mileski was a former Marine who operated a self-owned cabinet repair and installation business. He advertised in the Maryland Suburban phone book in 1974, 75, and 76. Although police seemed to think that he operated his business out of his home, the informant stated that Mileski had another house or building where he assembled cabinets and stored them, and that this was in an area just south of Iverson Mall in Prince Georges County.
It is very likely that Mileski was a loud-mouth type who liked to brag about things. So it is hard to say whether he would have bragged about something like the Lyon disappearance in order to impress his 16-year-old apprentice, or if the boy had some how heard and seen things that he pieced together on his own.
One might also question Mileski's sanity based on the fact that he murdered two persons in his own family.
Clearly, Mileski had been the one to brag about being involved in the Lyon sisters' disappearance in 1982, when other cons informed on him. But he did not make any attempt then to gain favor from it. It was only in 2001 that he requested a transfer in exchange for his talking to investigators about the Lyon case.
What he told investigators - if anything - is buried in MCP files.
Such was the case when a person contacted a missing persons website with information about the Lyon sisters. This person actually gave a lot of information about Mileski, his associates, and about the Lyon sisters' disappearance.
The information was given to a website Point of Contact (POC) who in turn contacted me, since I had authored the website's case file on the Lyon sisters.
Many things "checked out" as far as I could tell. That is, this person seemed to know certain details, while not knowing the whole story as it had been stated in newspapers. One thing in particular was that Mileski's home address was stated by the informant. The Washington Post had mentioned the same address in their 1982 article about the search of the yard, but Mileski's name was never mentioned.
The informant knew names, but could never give any correct spellings of those names. Some of those names (of alleged Mileski associates) were tracked down and they all proved to have criminal records and addresses in the area of Mileski's house. A lot of information had nothing to do with the Lyon sisters, but checked out just the same, such as one associate had been injured in a shooting at a certain time.
The informant spoke several times with the website POC, and all information was passed on to me, and I passed it on immediately to the Montgomery County Detective in charge of the Lyon investigation. The detective was not overly enthusiastic about the information, nor was he one to give us any information in return.
Basically, the informant stated that all the information had come second hand from a person who had been about 16 years-old at the time of the Lyon sisters' disappearance. Supposedly, this boy (age 18 by November 1977) had heard things from Mileski about the Lyon case and about who had been involved in their abduction, murder, and burial.
This 16-year-old boy was a boarder at the Mileski house and evidently worked for Mileski in some capacity. Investigation into the Mileski case indicated that Mileski and his wife had been having frequent arguments about a "boarder" and that these arguments had resulted in his smashing their Television set a few days prior to the shootings of his wife and sons.
When Montgomery County Police seemed to dismiss the tip out of hand as a crank call, the website POC - on his own iniative - located Mileski in a Baltimore prison and decided to write to him. Surprisingly, Mileski wrote back, indicating that he did have some knowledge of the Lyon case. This initial exchange of letters was intercepted by the prison warden, who forwarded copies of the letters to Montgomery County Police.
When copies of those letters arrived at police headquarters, the MCP detective became very angry and he contacted the POC and threatened to charge him with obstruction of justice by interfering with an on going investigation. Unfortunately, by this time a second exchange of letters had taken place and Mileski had indicated that he was willing to talk in exchange for a transfer to a different prison.
Because of the MCP detective's threat to charge him with obstruction, the POC gave both of the origional Mileski letters to a lawyer who wrote to MCP stating that they could have the letters if they came to his office and signed for them. There may have been a provision in the receipt document stating that they would not prosecute the POC for his iniative in getting Mileski to write the letters in the first place.
Ray Mileski was a former Marine who operated a self-owned cabinet repair and installation business. He advertised in the Maryland Suburban phone book in 1974, 75, and 76. Although police seemed to think that he operated his business out of his home, the informant stated that Mileski had another house or building where he assembled cabinets and stored them, and that this was in an area just south of Iverson Mall in Prince Georges County.
It is very likely that Mileski was a loud-mouth type who liked to brag about things. So it is hard to say whether he would have bragged about something like the Lyon disappearance in order to impress his 16-year-old apprentice, or if the boy had some how heard and seen things that he pieced together on his own.
One might also question Mileski's sanity based on the fact that he murdered two persons in his own family.
Clearly, Mileski had been the one to brag about being involved in the Lyon sisters' disappearance in 1982, when other cons informed on him. But he did not make any attempt then to gain favor from it. It was only in 2001 that he requested a transfer in exchange for his talking to investigators about the Lyon case.
What he told investigators - if anything - is buried in MCP files.
SharetheLight
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Thank you Richard for clarifying much of what was confusing me.
Your post was very clear, I appreciate your time laying this all out here.
So to keep it simple (nothing about this is simple) a 16-18 yr. old kid was living and working with Mileski. This 16-18 yr. old had information that Mileski either did the crime or had details about who did do the crime.
At some point this person (who was about 18 when Mileski went to jail) told someone else about Mileski and his possible involvement in the Lyon case.
This someone else was the tipster who sent a tip to a website, which went to the POC, who in turn gave it to you, who gave it to MCPD.
Part of this tip was the fact that Mileski had associates prior to 1977 that had criminal records. This was verified by someone as being true.
My question now would be did Mileski have a criminal record prior to 1977? What were the crimes of his associates? Were they into drugs, robbery, or kidnapping and murder? I ask this because there are many degrees of crime and one can have a rather lengthy record but still not commit a single crime against another human being.
Were these associates said to have knowledge of the Lyon case? Or were these associates supposed to be the perps of the Lyon case?
Or was the tipster just stating facts about Mileski that could be verified to give himself some credibility, and these associates have nothing to do with the Lyon case nor do they know anything about it.
I also now question the tips coming from cons in 1982. I thought maybe Mileski was talking while in Jail and that was the source of this information. But if it's been verified that he hung out with criminals, perhaps one of his associates (who had knowledge of the lyon case just by being friends with Mileski outside of jail) went back to jail and started talking to some cons about what he'd heard on the outside. This could be the source of the tip in 1982 just as well as coming from Mileski himself.
Richard since you took the tipsters information to LE, do you know what type of crimes his associates were involved in? And did Mileski have a criminal record prior to 1977?
The young man who is the source of all of this information (the one who lived with Mileski) probably also knew why Mileski killed his son and wife since he lived there. Did the tipster mention any information about this?
I still think it is possible that the son came across, or overheard something he shouldn't have and it very well could have related to this case.
Richard is there any indication this happened?
Your post was very clear, I appreciate your time laying this all out here.
So to keep it simple (nothing about this is simple) a 16-18 yr. old kid was living and working with Mileski. This 16-18 yr. old had information that Mileski either did the crime or had details about who did do the crime.
At some point this person (who was about 18 when Mileski went to jail) told someone else about Mileski and his possible involvement in the Lyon case.
This someone else was the tipster who sent a tip to a website, which went to the POC, who in turn gave it to you, who gave it to MCPD.
Part of this tip was the fact that Mileski had associates prior to 1977 that had criminal records. This was verified by someone as being true.
My question now would be did Mileski have a criminal record prior to 1977? What were the crimes of his associates? Were they into drugs, robbery, or kidnapping and murder? I ask this because there are many degrees of crime and one can have a rather lengthy record but still not commit a single crime against another human being.
Were these associates said to have knowledge of the Lyon case? Or were these associates supposed to be the perps of the Lyon case?
Or was the tipster just stating facts about Mileski that could be verified to give himself some credibility, and these associates have nothing to do with the Lyon case nor do they know anything about it.
I also now question the tips coming from cons in 1982. I thought maybe Mileski was talking while in Jail and that was the source of this information. But if it's been verified that he hung out with criminals, perhaps one of his associates (who had knowledge of the lyon case just by being friends with Mileski outside of jail) went back to jail and started talking to some cons about what he'd heard on the outside. This could be the source of the tip in 1982 just as well as coming from Mileski himself.
Richard since you took the tipsters information to LE, do you know what type of crimes his associates were involved in? And did Mileski have a criminal record prior to 1977?
The young man who is the source of all of this information (the one who lived with Mileski) probably also knew why Mileski killed his son and wife since he lived there. Did the tipster mention any information about this?
I still think it is possible that the son came across, or overheard something he shouldn't have and it very well could have related to this case.
Richard is there any indication this happened?
Two of the persons known and mentioned by the informant were about 16 years old in 1975, and may have had juvenile records, but nothing on the books until around 1977. Their records from about 1982 on were mainly street type crimes, but nothing like kidnapping or murder. (1982 was the year the computerized records went back to).
One boy was the "boarder" who supposedly had heard and seen things, the other was a close friend to whom he first confided his story.
According to the informant, it was not Mileski, but another man who abducted the girls. This individual had an extensive criminal record (again from 1982 on), but most of it was for such things as "drunk and disorderly behavior" and for "failure to appear" in court. This guy moved frequently. We had about 6 or 8 addressess for him, most in the Suitland/Marlow Heights area of Prince Georges county. The informant thought that this guy was dead, but there were indications that he might still have been alive in 2001.
According to the informants information, Mileski and this guy owned or rented a house together or maybe the guy rented a place from Mileski. That part was not clear to the informant, but the story was that Mileski joined in the crime with this individual AFTER the abduction.
I do not know if Mileski had a criminal record of any kind before he shot his family.
One boy was the "boarder" who supposedly had heard and seen things, the other was a close friend to whom he first confided his story.
According to the informant, it was not Mileski, but another man who abducted the girls. This individual had an extensive criminal record (again from 1982 on), but most of it was for such things as "drunk and disorderly behavior" and for "failure to appear" in court. This guy moved frequently. We had about 6 or 8 addressess for him, most in the Suitland/Marlow Heights area of Prince Georges county. The informant thought that this guy was dead, but there were indications that he might still have been alive in 2001.
According to the informants information, Mileski and this guy owned or rented a house together or maybe the guy rented a place from Mileski. That part was not clear to the informant, but the story was that Mileski joined in the crime with this individual AFTER the abduction.
I do not know if Mileski had a criminal record of any kind before he shot his family.
Motherof5
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WOW!! Richard, what is your opinion of all of that? I know that you feel that Coffey is our best bet,but what do you make of Mileski and the possibility that he could have been involved? When you passed the tip on to LE,how well did they look into this? Thank you so much for filling us in. Nice work!!!
I will admit, that initially I was quite skeptical of the first bits of information that came in, but as more and more of it checked out, I became quite intrigued with the possibilities. The major problem with the informant's story was that it was all second or third hand hearsay, and all inadmissable in court. To obtain usable evidence, LE would have needed to have tracked down all the persons mentioned by the informant - and they seemed unwilling to do that.
The case officer may have interviewed the informant and he may have interviewed Mileski in prison, but I doubt that they did anything further with any information they may have gained from either. Certainly, there have been no new breaks in the case as a result, and I know of no extensive searches iniatiated as a result either.
As I said before, any information that MCP might have gotten from Mileski is buried in their files and not known to me.
Another major problem with the whole story was that so many people seemed to be involved and so many people supposedly "knew" things. In a case like this, it seems much more likely that only one person or at most two persons would be involved and they wouldn't talk about it.
Motherof5
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I understand what you're saying. Now, when LE dug test holes in Mileski's yard,was this because of what the other convicts said they had heard? I guess I'm asking,why his yard? Did the convicts say that Mileski said that he had put the girls there or did LE just decide to take a shot at the yard? I'm also wondering about the teenage boarder,this seems odd to me. Where was his family? I wonder if he was a runaway and I wonder if there was anything going on between this kid and Mileski? Do you have any idea how long this kid lived with Mileski? I also wonder if this kid(now man) would think that any of Mileski's adult friends looked anything like the sketch of TRM? Thank you for answering my post,Richard.It's always good to hear from you.
Good question. I really do not know all of what the convicts told MCP in 1982, but reading between the lines of what MCP told the press in their briefing, it would seem that these convicts believed that Mileski had been involved and that he had buried the girls "in his own back yard".
MCP took the tip literally and went to the people who owned the house in 1982 and got permission to dig.
I have seen the house on Suitland road and the entire back yard is very small. Most of it can be seen from the street and all of it can be observed from about a dozen other houses. It would be idiotic for him to have buried the girls there - where his family, all of his neighbors, and anyone driving by his house could see him.
IF Mileski really did bury the girls, he MIGHT have bragged that they were right "in my own back yard", speaking more figuratively and referring to a more remote place which was CLOSE to where he lived - such as in Suitland Bog, near a large power relay station, or in an area known as Andrew Jackson Pits. These are all places near his former residence.
In fact, the website informant said that the girls might be buried in "Andrew Jackson Pits", which was a large gravel pit area near Andrew Jackson Middle School. That area is now a large housing subdivision, but in the 1970's it was an undeveloped gravel pit area with a lot of trails where kids rode dirt bikes.
In his second letter, Mileski described (as the girls final resting place) a rural area with trees and water, and a lodge or cabin where one might go hunting or fishing. Of course, he was referring to having been TOLD this by the real abductor/killer whom he supposedly met "in the pen".
As to your question regarding the teenaged boarder, I really do not know much about the situation where Mileski took him in. Mileski had three sons of his own, but this other boy also lived with him according to the informant, and a newspaper article made reference to a "boarder" as well. The boy might have been a relative, or perhaps was a foster child, or maybe some other arrangement had been made between the boy's family and Mileski. I just do not know for certain.
The informant mentioned that Mileski either owned or rented another house or shop in an area just south of Iverson Mall - and that it was at this other place that the boy lived and/or worked for Mileski. Researching county land records, I was unable to find any property owned by Mileski, except for his Suitland Road residence. In 1977, at the time of the Mileski family murders, the boy was living with the Mileski family at the Suitland Road residence. The informant claimed to have been inside that house after the Mileski family shootings and said that the boy pointed out some bullet holes in the wall and door.
Motherof5
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It seems as if LE didn't take the 2001 tip seriously because they didn't find anything when they searched Mileski's yard,but I think they should have.Do you know if any searches happened after they looked at Mileski's second letter? You had said in an earlier post that you didn't know of any other searches,did you mean after the yard search in 82 or after the 2001 tip?
Most of the large scale searches which were conducted to find the Lyon sisters took place in March, April, and May of 1975.
Police did spend about three hours digging holes in the back yard of a house on Suitland Road in PG county in 1982.
I do not know of any other searches which may have been conducted. If any were, they were not mentioned in any news papers.
Besides the mention of "Andrew Jackson Pits" in 2001, I doubt if any search was conducted there. There were no specific directions or landmarks given by the informant or by Mileski that I know of. The Andrew Jackson Pits area is very large and it was being developed in 2001.
Police did spend about three hours digging holes in the back yard of a house on Suitland Road in PG county in 1982.
I do not know of any other searches which may have been conducted. If any were, they were not mentioned in any news papers.
Besides the mention of "Andrew Jackson Pits" in 2001, I doubt if any search was conducted there. There were no specific directions or landmarks given by the informant or by Mileski that I know of. The Andrew Jackson Pits area is very large and it was being developed in 2001.
SharetheLight
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Richard, thank you for providing even more insight to Mileski and what was happening in his life just two years after the Lyon sisters were taken. I am unclear about a few more details, perhaps you can provide some clarity or perhaps you are just as unclear as I about these facts.
Did the 16/18 yr. old live at the other residence Mileski owned or rented? And is this the same residence where the abductor lived, or have I misunderstood something? When did the boarder live at the other residence if he was living at the Suitland Road residence when the shootings occurred?
I assume Mileski went to jail when he turned himself in for shooting his wife and son. I'd also think he'd be held on a no bond status pending his trial date. The house was then probably sold with Mileski in jail and his wife deceased.
You mentioned the informant claimed to be inside the house after the Mileski family shootings with the 16 yr/18yr. old boy. Was the informant a teenager at the time as well? Or was the informant an adult (over 21) at the time of the shootings?
I find it odd that Mileski's associates were minors. Richard, did the informant give any indication as to why Mileski associated with so many minors? Or is it that the informant was himself a minor at the time of the abduction and shootings and this was his frame of reference?
Richard, in another post you mentioned Mileski wasn't involved in the actual abduction of the Lyon sisters but he got involved after the abduction. Is there any indication that Mileski was involved in this crime prior to the death of the girls? Or to dispose of the girls?
Or based on the information you recieved is it more likely he just came upon information about the abduction of the Lyon girls from the actual abductor? In other words, is it more likely he was a participant in the girls death, or disposal, or is it more likely he learned details of the crime after the fact?
And lastly Richard, did the informant give you and/or the POC the name of the person the informant believed was responsible for abducting Sheila and Katherine Lyon?
Sorry to post so many questions again, but after reading through all of this, these are the things I am still confused about. Maybe you are just as confused as I am, but I ask you these things as someone who had some contact and direct knowledge of the things the informant and Mileski were claiming in 2001. Thank you again for all of the information you have posted about Mileski.