This thread is for the posters that believe Caylee is still alive # 3

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Seranade said:
I wanted to repost here some of my reasons for having reasonable doubts:(sorry it's so long)

<Regretfully snipped for brevity...>

All I am saying is things are not always as they seem. Authorities can lie, authorities can make mistakes and the public has a solemn duty not to turn into a lynch mob and convict a person of murder before all of the facts are laid bare, before the accused has a chance to confront and cross-examine the evidence against her, and certainly not on the word of sensationalist media who seem in many instances to have a blatant disregard for the truth.
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Truly wonderful post, Seranade! A lot of wisdom in what you have said.

Yesterday I posted that I think Casey could have passed Caylee to her brother Lee, and that Lee and his girlfriend and other friends are looking after her. Today I listened to the audio clips, and was struck by a few things. Mind you, this is just how it seemed to me ....

For one, Casey's tone of voice. There has been a lot of comment about how "cold" she sounds, emotionless and so on. She didn't really come across that way to me. She sounded mostly patient and like she was doing her best to come across as cooperative, even though frankly she was not being cooperative -- that's flat out obvious. But I do think that Casey loved Caylee, and my feeling is that if Caylee is dead and Casey caused it (on purpose or accidentally), she would show much more emotion even if she still didn't tell the truth. What stood out to me was that she did not even sound particularly stressed. She sounded fairly relaxed. So there is a confidence there about "something", and it seems to me that confidence may come from her certain knowledge that Caylee is alive and safe. She's just not going to tell the truth about WHERE.

I also think that Lee knows. Even if he is not Caylee's keeper during all this, I strongly feel that he also knows she is safe. The parents don't. But Lee comes across as so calm and relaxed -- again, no tension, no apparent stress. Surely if he knew his sister was very likely facing murder charges and all that comes with that, he'd be more stressed than he appears to be? There'd be no reason not to show it. But he doesn't even seem to be trying to hide things like worry, fear, dread, etc.

Back to the audios. I had also listened to the three "911" calls made by Cindy. In the first one, Cindy wanted to have Casey charged with stealing her car -- meaning the car belonged to Cindy. Now, from hearing Casey's explanation in the audios of her police interviews, I understand that technically the Pontiac is in her parents' names. But her brother bought the Pontiac from them apparently in the past, and Casey got it from her brother about 3 years ago. So although it is apparently registered in the names of the parents, in truth the kids have had the car for their full use for more than the last 3 years. So in my opinion, I think it was quite unfair and unreasonable of Cindy to attempt to charge Casey with theft of that car -- clearly Casey has been using the car as her own for a long time. If this is a sample of the kind of conflicts that have gone on between Cindy and Casey, then I can see some of Casey's side in that.

Another thing. It seems that Casey must have had SOMEONE looking after Caylee during the day most of the time or a lot of the time. With both George and Cindy working, she could not have left Caylee with them most of the time during the day. And she had told her friends that Caylee was with the nanny, and none of her friends have come forward to say that they were doing most of the baby-sitting of Caylee. So Caylee had to be SOMEWHERE when Casey was alone and the grandparents were working. Where could she have been? I can't buy that Casey was doping the child and stashing her in her car a lot of the time over the last couple of years. So maybe in fact there has been a nanny. And maybe that nanny in fact does have Caylee and Casey knows exactly where Caylee is being kept and feels confident that Caylee is safe and fine. Casey just is not going to tell the truth about who the nanny truly is, etc. Not unless and until she might absolutely have to.

I noticed on Casey's jail records that she has had no previous criminal background. I wonder whether the stealing from family/friends is just very recent, maybe trying initially to get something pulled together so she could better afford to move out from her parents' home, and then having to leave more abruptly than she had planned.

Just kicking these thoughts out.
 
Seranade said:
Thank you so much Christine for such wise comments.

I wanted to repost here some of my reasons for having reasonable doubts:(sorry it's so long)

Here is my thinking on the case, which I hope to be able to articulate without offending anyone. I am not sure if Caylee is dead or alive. I agree that it looks bad. However, I have a huge mountain of reasonable doubt. There are four things about this case I know for sure:

1- Caylee is an adorable Angel and she will always be in my heart, no matter what happens.
2- Casey is a liar and a thief.
3- Caylee is missing.
4- There was a dead body in the trunk of Casey's car.

Now, here is why I have reasonable doubt:

Many people here on this board, in the media, and in the general public have made the statement "I trust LE 100%".

This is a dangerous attitude for citizens of a democracy to take. Trusting authority completely is just asking for tyranny. There are many reasons to take the pronouncements of LE skeptically, not least of which they have made many honest mistakes, or mistakes born of incompetence and a desire to quickly close a case, high profile or otherwise.

But in many instances LE have made corrupt "mistakes". Remember the Riley Fox case? I bet the Sheriff in that case told the media many lies about Kevin Fox in a corrupt desire to be re-elected. Kevin Fox is sitting home today, innocent as can be while the real murderer has had years of freedom while the evidence grows cold.

LE has said that there are "indications" "suggestions" that Caylee was in the trunk, dead. There is no reason, if they have the reports back from the labs and they show Caylee to be dead, for them NOT to come right out and say: "Caylee was dead in the trunk. No question". Forensic science of this sort does not 'indicate' anything. Caylee is either dead or alive. Period.

Lies, distortions, and spin in the media-(remember "WMD"?)

Chloroform

Media reports have taken the leaks about chloroform and run with them. According to NG and the rest of the media the trunk had "significant amounts" of and the air was "saturated" with chloroform. The whole world now thinks Casey either used the chemical to drug Caylee or to murder her. But could that possibly be true?

Chloroform is an ingredient in many pesticides. If Casey had used it on Caylee, there would have been NO INSECT ACTIVITY in the trunk of her car at the tow yard. But according to the testimony of the tow yard employee, we know that there was. If the trunk was "saturated" at the time of testing, how much moreso must it have been at the tow yard?

ZG/Samantha/the script

How do we know that Casey ever changed her story on this score? First, LP said that Casey told him the script story in the living room of the Anthony home. When he told NG about it, he added that he told Casey he didn't want to know from ZG. Casey then told him to get out of her house. NG was outraged that she would have the gall to tell him that about her parents home.

Then, someone must have pointed out to LP that he had earlier said that Casey never said ONE WORD to him about the case while he was down in Orlando. So then RD comes out with the story that Casey told him the story as they rode alone to her attorney's office.

That version must not have worked out too well either as LP NOW says (on Fox the other afternoon) that CINDY told him the story. How are we to find this supposed change in Casey's story credible? I don't think we can until we have proof.

Now, many people on this board and in the general public have said "Presumption of Innocence only applies in a court of law!! The public can think/say whatever they want"

Technically, that is true. But *who* in a court of law is it most crucial that they apply this principle? The jurors, of course. And where do the jurors come from? The public. If it is ok, if it is allowed, if the public *allows* themselves to presume the guilt of every person LE investigates or even arrests for crimes then how is any accused person to ever hope to receive a fair trial from an untainted jury?

Remember Sam Shepherd? The US Supreme Court overturned a guilty verdict saying pre-trial publicity had tainted the jury's deliberations.

Remember Richard Jewel? The FBI had him tried and convicted and the media went right along with the witch hunt. Some of them are very sorry they did that but it hasn't seemed to have changed the way they operate.

All I am saying is things are not always as they seem. Authorities can lie, authorities can make mistakes and the public has a solemn duty not to turn into a lynch mob and convict a person of murder before all of the facts are laid bare, before the accused has a chance to confront and cross-examine the evidence against her, and certainly not on the word of sensationalist media who seem in many instances to have a blatant disregard for the truth.
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AMEN! Right on.
 
JustInCase said:
NO ONE here has said we support Casey! NOT ONE! What we have done is seek every angle and declined to take part in the disparage of Casey and her family on threads that find this case laughable

Because we seek other angles and have hope ... that makes us a target? Because we explore other aspects and don't assume that Casey is the only one being mendacious in this case ... you expect explicit WE ask ... then WE deliver, kind of answers?

We are merely on a quest .... putting into practice what pops up in our inquistive minds ... trying to answer the controversial questions, that LE themselves should have at the very least ... ASKED! YET they didn't.

This thread is not about ... Casey is telling the truth.

It's more about having a standpoint ... no matter how beveled.

There is always the possibilty one might be able to find this SWEET child ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!! Gracefully hoping!

Now ... what angle might you take in hopes of finding Caylee?
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Wow. Beautiful, well thought, honest answer.
 
Did someone ever mention a Cameron ?

This is from today:

Cameron J wrote at 6:05am
omg casey how r u? i havent been able to get in touch with you..btw delete the arielle arielle arielle chick she cant read since u have specifically let ppl know u r not accepting negative crap love u keep ur head up
 
Just got up and, of course,ran to the cam. Anything going on at 1313 Wackadoo Lane overnight?
 
Seranade said:
Thank you so much Christine for such wise comments.

I wanted to repost here some of my reasons for having reasonable doubts:(sorry it's so long)

Here is my thinking on the case, which I hope to be able to articulate without offending anyone. I am not sure if Caylee is dead or alive. I agree that it looks bad. However, I have a huge mountain of reasonable doubt. There are four things about this case I know for sure:

1- Caylee is an adorable Angel and she will always be in my heart, no matter what happens.
2- Casey is a liar and a thief.
3- Caylee is missing.
4- There was a dead body in the trunk of Casey's car.

Now, here is why I have reasonable doubt:

Many people here on this board, in the media, and in the general public have made the statement "I trust LE 100%".who would you like to see people put their trust in? A woman who speaks only lies/deceptions/mis-truths?

This is a dangerous attitude for citizens of a democracy to take. Trusting authority completely is just asking for tyranny.that's a bold statement. I would like to see some supporting fact to that line of thinking. There are many reasons to take the pronouncements of LE skeptically, not least of which they have made many honest mistakes, or mistakes born of incompetence and a desire to quickly close a case, (curious, which of those do you believe apply in this case?) high profile or otherwise.

But in many instances LE have made corrupt "mistakes". Remember the Riley Fox case? I bet the Sheriff in that case told the media many lies about Kevin Fox in a corrupt desire to be re-elected. Kevin Fox is sitting home today, innocent as can be while the real murderer has had years of freedom while the evidence grows cold. how does this realate to this case?

LE has said that there are "indications" "suggestions" that Caylee was in the trunk, dead. There is no reason, if they have the reports back from the labs and they show Caylee to be dead, for them NOT to come right out and say: "Caylee was dead in the trunk. No question". Forensic science of this sort does not 'indicate' anything. Caylee is either dead or alive. Period.

Lies, distortions, and spin in the media-and casey does what again?(remember "WMD"?)

Chloroform

Media reports have taken the leaks about chloroform and run with them. (I honestly don't see why this was leaked either, doesn't really make sense and doesn't connect anything, only encourages speculation.) According to NG and the rest of the media the trunk had "significant amounts" of and the air was "saturated" with chloroform. The whole world now thinks Casey either used the chemical to drug Caylee or to murder her. But could that possibly be true?

Chloroform is an ingredient in many pesticides. If Casey had used it on Caylee, there would have been NO INSECT ACTIVITY in the trunk of her car at the tow yard. But according to the testimony of the tow yard employee, we know that there was. If the trunk was "saturated" at the time of testing, how much moreso must it have been at the tow yard?

ZG/Samantha/the script

How do we know that Casey ever changed her story on this score? First, LP said that Casey told him the script story in the living room of the Anthony home. When he told NG about it, he added that he told Casey he didn't want to know from ZG. Casey then told him to get out of her house. NG was outraged that she would have the gall to tell him that about her parents home.

Then, someone must have pointed out to LP (fwiw I don't think anything that he has said has been the main reason for any "outrage", except that of NG)that he had earlier said that Casey never said ONE WORD to him about the case while he was down in Orlando. So then RD comes out with the story that Casey told him the story as they rode alone to her attorney's office.

That version must not have worked out too well either as LP NOW says (on Fox the other afternoon) that CINDY told him the story. How are we to find this supposed change in Casey's story credible? I don't think we can until we have proof.

Now, many people on this board and in the general public have said "Presumption of Innocence only applies in a court of law!! The public can think/say whatever they want" Are you asking people to ignore what is happening and wait to get angry about the fact this child is missing and not reported for 30 days? You can't deny caylee is missing and that doesn't have to be tried in a court of law to be considered fact. People are outraged the fact this child was ignored for 30 days. that's why people "hate" kc.
And yes, Technically, that is true. But *who* in a court of law is it most crucial that they apply this principle? The jurors, of course. And where do the jurors come from? The public. If it is ok, if it is allowed, if the public *allows* themselves to presume the guilt of every person LE investigates or even arrests for crimes then how is any accused person to ever hope to receive a fair trial from an untainted jury?

Remember Sam Shepherd? The US Supreme Court overturned a guilty verdict saying pre-trial publicity had tainted the jury's deliberations. was the person tried again? I believe he died before he could be re-tried. They ALWAYS get tried again when the verdict is overturned. Doesn't always mean the defendant was not guilty.
Remember Richard Jewel? The FBI had him tried and convicted and the media went right along with the witch hunt. well, he didn't have a missing little girl he ignored , either.Some of them are very sorry they did that but it hasn't seemed to have changed the way they operate.

All I am saying is things are not always as they seem. Authorities can lie, authorities can make mistakes and the public has a solemn duty not to turn into a lynch mob and convict a person of murder before all of the facts are laid bare, before the accused has a chance to confront and cross-examine the evidence against her, and certainly not on the word of sensationalist media who seem in many instances to have a blatant disregard for the truth.
Click to expand...


I think you are missing the boat here. Although there have been people parading around their baby killer etc signs, those people are the extreme. I think if you took a poll, you would find the public is directing anger at kc because they want to know what happened to Caylee. It's the unknown. Many , many people believe kc holds the key and is simply staying mute. Some even believe the gp's know as well. I honestly don't think people would be sooooo angry at her if she hadn't not reported Caylee missing, if she hadn't lied, and if they didn't have so much proof she was having a gay old time at fusian instead of looking for caylee. no one was told Caylee was missing. that's the anger.

disclaimer: I am NOT trying to convince anyone she is dead. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I respect yours. I am replying to the post, as I have nowhere else to address it.
 
suspicious mind said:
I think you are missing the boat here. Although there have been people parading around their baby killer etc signs, those people are the extreme. I think if you took a poll, you would find the public is directing anger at kc because they want to know what happened to Caylee. It's the unknown. Many , many people believe kc holds the key and is simply staying mute. Some even believe the gp's know as well. I honestly don't think people would be sooooo angry at her if she hadn't not reported Caylee missing, if she hadn't lied, and if they didn't have so much proof she was having a gay old time at fusian instead of looking for caylee. no one was told Caylee was missing. that's the anger.

disclaimer: I am NOT trying to convince anyone she is dead. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I respect yours. I am replying to the post, as I have nowhere else to address it.
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I don't take it as you trying to convince anyone that Caylee is dead.
I think we're all angry at Casey and the ways she's handled everything.
All her lies, the stealing, her deceit and the partying; it all adds up to guilt.
I know she's guilty of a lot of things, but I don't know what all it is exactly just yet. We are only privy to what LE wants us to be privy to.

The bottom line for me is, I'm not ready to give up on Caylee and put her in a grave as long as there is even a half % chance that she's still alive.
 
Evan's Mom said:
I don't take it as you trying to convince anyone that Caylee is dead.
I think we're all angry at Casey and the ways she's handled everything.
All her lies, the stealing, her deceit and the partying; it all adds up to guilt.
I know she's guilty of a lot of things, but I don't know what all it is exactly just yet. We are only privy to what LE wants us to be privy to.

The bottom line for me is, I'm not ready to give up on Caylee and put her in a grave as long as there is even a half % chance that she's still alive.
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Exactly what many are trying to say here!

It is also apparent after listening to the tapes from yesterday, that LE may have blown their chances from the very first day with Casey. It seemed to me in the second tape that their yelling, angry, forceful attitudes were exactly the WRONG way to get to Casey and get any truthful information. The minute the two "tough cops" left the room, the third one got ten times as much information from her. I realize this was part of their technique of good cop/bad cop, but since it seems obvious that Casey has been influenced into many of her anti-social actions by critical and condemning attitudes, it would have been a much more successful technique for them to have been sympathizers. It seems that if just one of them had approached her with "hey your parents seem very angry with you and to put a lot of pressure on you and even I would be afraid to admit to them that I messed up and let something bad happen" and become her supporter from the beginning, things might be very different right now.
 
MommaShark said:
Wow. Beautiful, well thought, honest answer.
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I won't pretend that "I" think Caylee is alive, however, if there is a chance that she is, then maybe the A family could take out full page ads in newspapers that are in circulation in the states where they think she may be?
I am not being combative, snarkey or sarcastic......I am trying to be positive.
 
I'm being serious, what would be the harm in getting the missing flyer in every major newspaper in the states where the A family thinks she could be? I'm sure that some sleuther on this forum could translate it in to Spanish for the PR newspapers and there you go, nationwide coverage. Once again, what would be the harm?
 
Gray's Mom said:
I'm being serious, what would be the harm in getting the missing flyer in every major newspaper in the states where the A family thinks she could be? I'm sure that some sleuther on this forum could translate it in to Spanish for the PR newspapers and there you go, nationwide coverage. Once again, what would be the harm?
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None, my local news station has not even really covered it. I was talking to some of my neighbors and brought up Caylee they did not even know what I was talking about. They hadn't even heard of the story!
 
I have not seen it on my local news either. When i bring it up to people some know, and some are like oh the mother who didnt contact police and some are like who... I wonder if they know what she even looks like.
 
AutomaticAuttie said:
None, my local news station has not even really covered it. I was talking to some of my neighbors and brought up Caylee they did not even know what I was talking about. They hadn't even heard of the story!
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We have had minimal local coverage here in CA as well. I was really trying to connect with the person on this thread that is in contact with the A family. Can they please forward on my suggestion and if they need help with the research on what are the major newpapers/fees/format of the flyer needed are in each of the states they think she could be in, I or anyone on this thread can goggle for them if they are too busy.
 
keeponsearching said:
I have not seen it on my local news either. When i bring it up to people some know, and some are like oh the mother who didnt contact police and some are like who... I wonder if they know what she even looks like.
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Exactly my point, I would like to know if this would be a positive idea to present to the A family and I think that they would want to get Caylee's info out to the places where they think she would be alive. AND, if they need help on finding out what are the major newpapers/fees/format required, I think that that would appeal to all that think Caylee is alive and to those who think that there might be a chance that she is.

I am not here to debate on if she is alive or not; if the coverage is less, more, not at all.
 
Gray's Mom said:
I'm being serious, what would be the harm in getting the missing flyer in every major newspaper in the states where the A family thinks she could be? I'm sure that some sleuther on this forum could translate it in to Spanish for the PR newspapers and there you go, nationwide coverage. Once again, what would be the harm?
Click to expand...

That's a great idea. Earlier several of us sent the flyers to different radio and tv stations to get the word out and to keep Caylee in the news everywhere.
Some posters thought it was stupid, but I think anything that keeps Caylee in the news all over the world is a good thing.
You know the flyers come in Spanish and English too?
 
Have you sent them to the specific places where the A's are thinking she could be at? Do you help in finding out the radio stations/newpapers? I don't think any means to finding this child is stupid.

I think that if the general public knew that the A family was exhausting ALL resources then they may be looked upon in a more sympathetic light. I would certainly feel better if I see them doing more than they are.
And before I get jumped on, I do not know what they are doing behind closed doors. I just know that if they can't afford/have time to fly to PR/TX/NY/NC then the next best thing would be to contact the local newspapers and place full size ads and I haven't seen/heard anything like that happening. Maybe they haven't thought about doing this and that is why I am here.
 
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