Physical Evidence

New Posts

I'll be here too panthera.

By the way..........in rereading what I sent you.......the bus ticket was purchased on the 14th with the train LEAVING on the 15th.

So that would leave us back to the last time Maria seen alive is on the 14th.

So TOD has to be on the 14th or on the 15th depending on what time Maria was with CL and/or Christina. I think you get what I'm saying.

There is no coroner that I've ever seen that has said the EXACT TOD........they all usually have some hour span...........some less..........some more.

But in Maria's case........IMO............TOD is either the 14th or the 15th........it really doesn't make much difference IMO..........meaning it could be a one or two hour difference which could translate to 10:00 pm on the 14th at TOD or 12:00 to 1:00 am on the 15th as TOD.

We know the activities of CL on the 16th..............so he knew Maria was dead............
 
panthera said:
Oh I'll be here through the trial! :blowkiss: I'll try to see if I can check anything out for the bus schedule, but I still think it was the evening of the 14th. I just can't see where Maria would be for that many hours since she'd already left the note that she was leaving the MC at Durham's house.
Click to expand...

I think she was surprised that she couldn't leave on the 14th. With all her preparation I do believe that was her intent. IIRC the bus scheduled to leave the afternoon of the 14th was around 5:40 pm. If Maria did not arrive until around 5 pm, I think she found the last bus out that day, full. It is one of the busiest times of the year up there. So many are taking 10 day leave to go home for the Christmas holidays and usually like to leave once they get paid so they can have more time with their families during the holidays.

The bus for the 15th was scheduled to leave around 10 am.

I don't think she had planned at all. She had already written the note to Dan Durham so she couldn't go back there knowing he could already be back home.

I even wonder if she returned to Laurean's in a panic because she was afraid to be seen in Jacksonville not knowing if DD had already told someone she had left and she expected Laurean to solve her problem. Maybe he insisted that she had to leave and leave then or all hell was going to break loose when Christina walked through that door. What if Maria, who was known to be no pushover, refused to leave?

imoo
 
Littledeer said:
I'll be here too panthera.

By the way..........in rereading what I sent you.......the bus ticket was purchased on the 14th with the train LEAVING on the 15th.

So that would leave us back to the last time Maria seen alive is on the 14th.

So TOD has to be on the 14th or on the 15th depending on what time Maria was with CL and/or Christina. I think you get what I'm saying.

There is no coroner that I've ever seen that has said the EXACT TOD........they all usually have some hour span...........some less..........some more.

But in Maria's case........IMO............TOD is either the 14th or the 15th........it really doesn't make much difference IMO..........meaning it could be a one or two hour difference which could translate to 10:00 pm on the 14th at TOD or 12:00 to 1:00 am on the 15th as TOD.

We know the activities of CL on the 16th..............so he knew Maria was dead............
Click to expand...
This was mid-December, Maria was 8 mo. pregnant, and she wouldn't have been sleeping in her car or driving around for a few hours between 5pm - midnight, so I believe she was killed some time in the evening of the 14th. Like I said, I think Christina dictated to CL to put the 15th in his note because (imo) she wasn't home that day. :(
 
oceanblueeyes said:
I think she was surprised that she couldn't leave on the 14th. With all her preparation I do believe that was her intent. IIRC the bus scheduled to leave the afternoon of the 14th was around 5:40 pm. If Maria did not arrive until around 5 pm, I think she found the last bus out that day, full. It is one of the busiest times of the year up there. So many are taking 10 day leave to go home for the Christmas holidays and usually like to leave once they get paid so they can have more time with their families during the holidays.

The bus for the 15th was scheduled to leave around 10 am.

I don't think she had planned at all. She had already written the UA to Dan Durham so she couldn't go back there knowing he could already be back home.

I even wonder if she returned to Laurean's in a panic because she was afraid to be seen in Jacksonville not knowing if DD had already told someone she had left and she expected Laurean to solve her problem. Maybe he insisted that she had to leave and leave then or all hell was going to break loose when Christina walked through that door. What if Maria, who was known to be no pushover, refused to leave?

imoo
Click to expand...
Thank you! :blowkiss: I thought it was around 10am too but couldn't find where my link was to the schedule. I am totally with you about Maria wanting to get on the bus the evening of the 14th and more or less was bumped to the next one, with no place to go that night but back to CL's house after leaving Durham the goodbye note, and that would turn out to be a fatal decision. I do think Christina came home and found her there ~ alive. MOO, of course! :)
 
Littledeer said:
I'll be here too panthera.

By the way..........in rereading what I sent you.......the bus ticket was purchased on the 14th with the train LEAVING on the 15th.

So that would leave us back to the last time Maria seen alive is on the 14th.

So TOD has to be on the 14th or on the 15th depending on what time Maria was with CL and/or Christina. I think you get what I'm saying.

There is no coroner that I've ever seen that has said the EXACT TOD........they all usually have some hour span...........some less..........some more.

But in Maria's case........IMO............TOD is either the 14th or the 15th........it really doesn't make much difference IMO..........meaning it could be a one or two hour difference which could translate to 10:00 pm on the 14th at TOD or 12:00 to 1:00 am on the 15th as TOD.

We know the activities of CL on the 16th..............so he knew Maria was dead............
Click to expand...

In this case due to the decomposition and charring of the body the ME will give an even wider date range. There is no way he could ever tell time of death within hours. Now had Maria been found within a few hours and still showed rigor, lividity or had food in her stomach they could narrow it by mostly likely a 8-12 hour time range.

I think it will make a difference. Even the Lauterbach's have the date of death on Maria's myspace as the 15th even though LE has said it happened on the 14th. It makes me wonder if they believe Laurean over LE since he is saying the 15th.

Captain Sutherland said on Lindell Kay's blog that they have no time of death. They really don't know when this happened. It reminds me of the Meredeth Emerson case......she was last heard from when she was seen hiking Blood Mountain and then went missing however she did not die until 3 or 4 days later.

When this was to have occurred I think will become monumental in this case. IMO Laurean is coming back and he is going to start talking and also imo it is going to line up with evidence they have uncovered but have not understood and are wanting more information. I have never seen a LE team express their desires of hoping they get to talk to the suspect so that he can tell them his side of the story.

imoo
 
panthera said:
Thank you! :blowkiss: I thought it was around 10am too but couldn't find where my link was to the schedule. I am totally with you about Maria wanting to get on the bus the evening of the 14th and more or less was bumped to the next one, with no place to go that night but back to CL's house after leaving Durham the goodbye note, and that would turn out to be a fatal decision. I do think Christina came home and found her there ~ alive. MOO, of course! :)
Click to expand...



That is my opinion too, panthera.:)

imoo
 
panthera said:
This was mid-December, Maria was 8 mo. pregnant, and she wouldn't have been sleeping in her car or driving around for a few hours between 5pm - midnight, so I believe she was killed some time in the evening of the 14th. Like I said, I think Christina dictated to CL to put the 15th in his note because (imo) she wasn't home that day. :(
Click to expand...

What if she was home that Saturday? What if he left that clue for the police?:eek:

imoo
 
oceanblueeyes said:
What if she was home that Saturday? What if he left that clue for the police?:eek:

imoo
Click to expand...
Hmmmmm ~ that's an interesting thought! I'd always thought they were both up the night before he left writing the note together, but you may be on to something and anything's possible here! :)
 
BIG ONE HERE- de (who asked a lot of good questions) asked about the shoe the sheriff found on Greta. Sutherland: “We feel comfortable that we know who the shoe belongs to and that it will be available to prosecutors if they decide to use it at the trial. It appears to have evidentiary value.”

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=66#comment-776
 
SeriouslySearching said:
BIG ONE HERE- de (who asked a lot of good questions) asked about the shoe the sheriff found on Greta. Sutherland: “We feel comfortable that we know who the shoe belongs to and that it will be available to prosecutors if they decide to use it at the trial. It appears to have evidentiary value.”

http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=66#comment-776
Click to expand...
Oh, I can't wait! :D Let's see, Maria was killed at the house, buried in the back yard, and CL's been charged with the murder, so it isn't a big deal if Maria's blood is on his shoe, is it? Now if it's Christina's shoe, that would contradict what LE is saying that she wasn't involved, even in the cover up.
 
If you look at the photos of the shoes (one outside on the stoop in our photo thread and the other being in the garage photos which we don't have there)...they just don't look large enough to be Cesar's to me unless he had some little feet, but then there is nothing to compare it to. The other photo I will have to track down where the Sheriff is holding it up to show what appears to be blood. (Do men often do their shoestrings that way? The strings are not long enough to tie at the top and are tucked in an upside down fashion. My kiddo wears some of her tennis shoes this way!)
 
SeriouslySearching said:
If you look at the photos of the shoes (one outside on the stoop in our photo thread and the other being in the garage photos which we don't have there)...they just don't look large enough to be Cesar's to me unless he had some little feet, but then there is nothing to compare it to. The other photo I will have to track down where the Sheriff is holding it up to show what appears to be blood. (Do men often do their shoestrings that way? The strings are not long enough to tie at the top and are tucked in an upside down fashion. My kiddo wears some of her tennis shoes this way!)
Click to expand...
I edited (cropped and enlarged) the photo of the shoe to show more detail. It does look like a man's shoe to me.

Laureanshoe-1-1.jpg
 
SeriouslySearching said:
If you look at the photos of the shoes (one outside on the stoop in our photo thread and the other being in the garage photos which we don't have there)...they just don't look large enough to be Cesar's to me unless he had some little feet, but then there is nothing to compare it to. The other photo I will have to track down where the Sheriff is holding it up to show what appears to be blood. (Do men often do their shoestrings that way? The strings are not long enough to tie at the top and are tucked in an upside down fashion. My kiddo wears some of her tennis shoes this way!)
Click to expand...
The question of whether it's a male or female shoe was answered by Rick Sutherland, it's a MALE's shoe.

However, some woman do wear men's shoes.
 
SS, I have never known any man to have their shoelaces tied in that fashion...that is the way most laaces are tied though when you buy them, I think. I would think they belonged to a girl rather than a guy. And just going by memory...I would speculate it belonged to Maria not Christina..Christina looks to be a larger frame than Maria and usually petite women have small feet.
 
OK...so it is a man's shoe..maybe they were that way when he bought them and he just left them like that.
 
Snowlover77 said:
SS, I have never known any man to have their shoelaces tied in that fashion...that is the way most laaces are tied though when you buy them, I think. I would think they belonged to a girl rather than a guy. And just going by memory...I would speculate it belonged to Maria not Christina..Christina looks to be a larger frame than Maria and usually petite women have small feet.
Click to expand...
Well then if the shoes belonged to Maria, and one of them was outside the garage door which went into the back yard and the other one was inside the garage, please don't tell me Christina didn't notice them! And why would they have been left there?
 
panthera said:
Well then if the shoes belonged to Maria, and one of them was outside the garage door which went into the back yard and the other one was inside the garage, please don't tell me Christina didn't notice them! And why would they have been left there?
Click to expand...

Many women with wide feet wear either men's athletic shoes, or men's boots so maybe they are Christinas.

The fact that the one shoe was just laying there by the garage door during Greta's tour makes you wonder why the CSI didn't take it in for analysis?

Maybe the investigative team has done a Luminol test on it already and it didn't test for blood so they just left it there???
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 97 more.
Total: 1,424 (members: 98, guests: 1,326)

Online statistics

Members online
98
Guests online
1,326
Total visitors
1,424
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
591,792
Messages
17,958,940
Members
228,607
Latest member
wdavewong
Back
Top