IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #17

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VeryVeritas said:
Well the obvious person would be CR in the video. Did they ever imply or say that it was a 3rd person? If it was not CR then yes i could see how LE would think they have something to go on here. But then when they say the 3:38 witness sighting does not fit with others who saw her at the same time, what others are they talking about? Again wouldn't that be the CR/MB/JR sequence? If it's the 3:38 witness against their word... I wouldn't be discounting anything.
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It's pretty much a given that she would be seen on video at some point with CR, so I don't know why they would bother to even mention it especially in context of this sighting. Because he was so cagey I think it is someone other than CR.

As for the other sources, I wouldn't automatically include CR as having seen her given his "amnesia."
 
Berk13 said:
4) ZO/AB being at Smallwood

I still don't buy into them being there just because of LS. Smallwood is literally right down the street from ZO & AB's place, and it is a hot spot for partying. I'm sure they have plenty of friends who live there that they might've been hanging out with. Also, some have speculated that ZO might have been jealous because he had a crush on LS. ZO has a girlfriend, and if anyone has seen her pics on Facebook, I'm sure we can all agree that she is very attractive. I just don't see him being all hung-up on LS when he already has a gf. Just my opinion, of course.
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Do you have any more info on AB?
Girlfriends? Friends with JR? etc..
 
Hi
This always bothered me.

Taken from USA Today June 12,2011

Lawyers for Rossman, Beth and Rosenbaum have all contacted each other. Asked whether he thinks any of the three had anything to do with the disappearance, Chapman replied, "Absolutely not."

http://tinyurl.com/3nhmo5x
 
Tr. said:
Do you have any more info on AB?
Girlfriends? Friends with JR? etc..
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AB appears to have either deleted his Facebook account or made it private so that no one can search for him.

I looked him up shortly after his name first became a part of the conversation, and as I recall, he did not have a girlfriend and was not Facebook friends with ANY of the POIs except for ZO. From what I could gather when I looked at his profile and his photos, he and ZO appear to be best friends and AB seems like the hard-partying drunk friend who is always ready to take a goofy picture. Seems like he has a lot of girls who are friends, but no actual "girlfriend".
 
holly2325 said:
Hi
This always bothered me.

Taken from USA Today June 12,2011

Lawyers for Rossman, Beth and Rosenbaum have all contacted each other. Asked whether he thinks any of the three had anything to do with the disappearance, Chapman replied, "Absolutely not."

http://tinyurl.com/3nhmo5x
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that link. I think I read that when it was first published, but to read it again now was helpful. I found one part particularly interesting:

"Rossman and Mike Beth, who gave DNA samples to police, and Rosenbaum are all believed to be persons of interest. Spierer's boyfriend, Jesse Wolff, also is on the list, as are students who confronted Rossman at Spierer's building."

The story did NOT say that JR gave a DNA sample to the police. I know there have been past questions on this board about whether or not he gave DNA. Has anyone found anything more recent that said he did?? It seems a little suspicious for everyone else to give DNA but not him.

I also just noticed the article said the students who confronted CR are also on the POI list - so we now know that ZO is definitely considered a POI (not sure if that had ever been confirmed before). Assuming AB was with ZO at Smallwood, he would be a POI as well. I think everyone assumed those guys were POIs, but this article seems to confirm it.
 
You all keep saying someone would have cracked by now if a few of them were involved. Well, its been over a month and they haven't. Their future is on the line, why would they crack? To get a lighter sentence? They would still serve jail time and their reputation and name would be tarnished forever.

I know the reports say they have already done this, but they need to THOROUGHLY search Lake Monroe. I'd bet the house she OD'd. They panicked, drove down to Monroe, tied her to some cinder blocks, and back to campus 30 minutes later. Sorry if that's crude or foul, but that's what my gut has been telling me all along.
 
VeryVeritas said:
LE says things like they discount this 3:38 witness but the reason they gave also doesn't make sense. And I agree, even if they do have video and put more pieces together based on that, the defense can then come in with this 3:38 witness and raise reasonable doubt. If you want to prosecute you also have to clear up these loose ends. The Caylee Anthony case is really a classic example of this. A prosecution can't just come up with a theory, they need to pretend they are the defense and try to rip their own theory apart.
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This is a good point that I tried to convey earlier in the thread and the C. Anthony debacle is a prime example. It can go both ways, for LE or a suspect If you downplay an event, it's almost as if it never happened. Casey never reported Caylee missing, it was the grandmother that did, then when questioned Casey said that Caylee had been missing for a month. Remember Casey was indicted by a grand jury for 1st degree murder before Caylee was found and before the results of decomposition came back from the trunk of the car. Casey lied over and over again, one example is that zanny the nanny kidnapped Caylee, even though this nanny had no connection to Casey. The defense argued, but only enough to create reasonable doubt, that the grandfather found Caylee in the family pool, also how Casey's actions were dictated by her father. This, I guess, created reasonable doubt for Casey's actions that month in the eyes of the jurors. Not that i believe it, but....

It's also the same reason LE gives vague answers and rarely clears any POI publicly or elevates a POI into a suspect in an investigation. At some point, they will have to answer why, when they could not acknowledge it and never be confronted about it until an arrest is made and it enters into a legal arena.
 
Jupiter812 said:
It's pretty much a given that she would be seen on video at some point with CR, so I don't know why they would bother to even mention it especially in context of this sighting."
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I've wondered about this as well. I suppose there is the possibility that the video in question is clear enough to depict LS and not CR (if that is who she's with).
Maybe he was walking with his hands over his face after the beating..?
 
dmband445 said:
You all keep saying someone would have cracked by now if a few of them were involved. Well, its been over a month and they haven't. Their future is on the line, why would they crack? To get a lighter sentence? They would still serve jail time and their reputation and name would be tarnished forever.

I know the reports say they have already done this, but they need to THOROUGHLY search Lake Monroe. I'd bet the house she OD'd. They panicked, drove down to Monroe, tied her to some cinder blocks, and back to campus 30 minutes later. Sorry if that's crude or foul, but that's what my gut has been telling me all along.
Click to expand...

Didn't LE say early in the search that they received a very specific tip about Lake Monroe? If they only searched it once, I agree it needs to be searched again. It is a huge lake and seems like it would be very hard to find a body unless it was searched quite thoroughly.

If fellow students were responsible for her disappearance and hid her body somewhere, Lake Monroe makes sense. It's a place most students are familiar with and have visited at some point during college. I have been there several times, but I'm not familiar enough with it to know how easy it would be to dump a body in the lake without being noticed. Wouldn't most students know about access points at the docks like Paynetown, FourWinds Marina, etc? It seems that in the early morning hours it would be too much of a risk to dump a body at those areas because someone might see them. Is anyone familiar with whether or not there would be more secluded points of entry to the lake that would still be easy enough to access while carrying a body?

Also, wouldn't they need to be out in a deeper part of the water to drop a body in without running the risk of it washing up to shore or showing up if the water levels dropped due to little rain? I'm sorry if this is all morbid or if these questions are elementary - I am just really unfamiliar with how someone would go about dumping a body in a lake.
 
holly2325 said:
Hi
This always bothered me.

Taken from USA Today June 12,2011

Lawyers for Rossman, Beth and Rosenbaum have all contacted each other. Asked whether he thinks any of the three had anything to do with the disappearance, Chapman replied, "Absolutely not."

http://tinyurl.com/3nhmo5x
Click to expand...

Interesting. I don't think I've read it before, but of course Chapman must deny that his client (MB) and his client's "patient" (CR) had nothing to do with it. Now why he includes JR in that group, I dunno.

Salzmann, OTOH, makes sure to go on record saying his client (CR) was not the last to see her. A very different stance than Chapman.
 
Tr. said:
I've wondered about this as well. I suppose there is the possibility that the video in question is clear enough to depict LS and not CR (if that is who she's with).
Maybe he was walking with his hands over his face after the beating..?
Click to expand...

Nope. Cops say it's a man who is known to them.
 
Tr. said:
Do you have any more info on AB?
Girlfriends? Friends with JR? etc..
Click to expand...

No AB connection to JR. AB connection to many JR and LS friends' -- some of them living in the same building. And I don't see anything curious about ZO and his boys being up at Smallwood and still believe that confrontation had nothing to do with LS.
 
I can't see Lauren walking thru rubble or glass to get to her apartment building. I can see the possibility of Lauren being thrown over the shoulder of someone because she was too intoxicated to walk home but that person would have had to know that she had come from 5 North Townhouses, how did he know that if this is a possibility other than the fact that he had already been there at a party? Could this known person have taken her back there, laid her down for awhile, then she woke up and insisted on once again attempting to walk back home to Smallwood?
 
Berk13 said:
Didn't LE say early in the search that they received a very specific tip about Lake Monroe? If they only searched it once, I agree it needs to be searched again. It is a huge lake and seems like it would be very hard to find a body unless it was searched quite thoroughly.

If fellow students were responsible for her disappearance and hid her body somewhere, Lake Monroe makes sense. It's a place most students are familiar with and have visited at some point during college. I have been there several times, but I'm not familiar enough with it to know how easy it would be to dump a body in the lake without being noticed. Wouldn't most students know about access points at the docks like Paynetown, FourWinds Marina, etc? It seems that in the early morning hours it would be too much of a risk to dump a body at those areas because someone might see them. Is anyone familiar with whether or not there would be more secluded points of entry to the lake that would still be easy enough to access while carrying a body?

Also, wouldn't they need to be out in a deeper part of the water to drop a body in without running the risk of it washing up to shore or showing up if the water levels dropped due to little rain? I'm sorry if this is all morbid or if these questions are elementary - I am just really unfamiliar with how someone would go about dumping a body in a lake.
Click to expand...


Up until late May the water levels were still very high. Activities were canceled. People had to be golf-carted to their boats. Doubt that it went down much by June 3. I don't know how deep it is at its deepest.
 
VeryVeritas said:
Well the obvious person would be CR in the video. Did they ever imply or say that it was a 3rd person? If it was not CR then yes i could see how LE would think they have something to go on here. But then when they say the 3:38 witness sighting does not fit with others who saw her at the same time, what others are they talking about? Again wouldn't that be the CR/MB/JR sequence? If it's the 3:38 witness against their word... I wouldn't be discounting anything.
Click to expand...

Police have been pretty clear that LS is seen with "another man" in the video. That says to me no third person.
 
During normal levels the deepest it gets is about 60 feet. I read that early last month the water levels were up about 13-14 feet. So you are looking at about 75 feet at its deepest point early last month. I don't know how they would have gotten out in the water. There's all sorts of parks, marinas, etc. Kayaks, canoes, small fishing boats, etc. can all be found there. No need for keys for boat like that. There's also the dam and 446. 446 would be risky but you wouldn't even need to get on the water.
 
dmband445 said:
During normal levels the deepest it gets is about 60 feet. I read that early last month the water levels were up about 13-14 feet. So you are looking at about 75 feet at its deepest point early last month. I don't know how they would have gotten out in the water. There's all sorts of parks, marinas, etc. Kayaks, canoes, small fishing boats, etc. can all be found there. No need for keys for boat like that. There's also the dam and 446. 446 would be risky but you wouldn't even need to get on the water.
Click to expand...

446 sure would be risky. I imagine you know who, that rock 'n roller Hall of Famer has some serious security video cams on his property, including one that points to the road at his drive.
 
VeryVeritas said:
These were the words I was looking for a few moments ago... thanks bunnyesq.

So this is probably the most indicative statement of LE knowing that something happened in that gravel lot. If LE knew for example, that LS was forced into a vehicle at 2:51 to 3:00 They would have a problem with her being carried down N. College at 3:38. What other reasons would interfere with "their timeline" ? Seems to indicate they know with some certainty that "something" happened to her, but not necessarily the "who" of it. Why all the fuss about the white pick up earlier if they knew who and saw the vehicle on the cam? The only other thing I can think of is that they have LS on another video at 3:38am or even more solid evidence that she was with someone else at 3:38. If that means they are believing CR/MB/JR over the 3:38 witness one would have to seriously wonder why?
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Here's another thought.....it could be that they saw the scenario play out on video that was witnessed, but at another time. I can't recall the exact wording but there was something said about activity an hour earlier. Perhaps they saw LS being spoken to by a guy with the same description, slinging her over his shoulder, however it was either at a different location than described by the witness, or at an earlier time. That would also explain why LE said the description didn't match their timeline. Just another angle....
 
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