Found Deceased IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi

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FromGermany said:
I'm not joking at all!! I didn't meant your links but in general. On my search for different pics I would constantly hit on paywall news with no access to text and pics. Tell me if I'm wrong. I like to learn from everyone here on the thread! :)

PS: Just tested your links - perfectly available.
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Strange, I haven't hit a paywall for news (except WSJ occasionally). Maybe says something about the quality of my news choices! LOL.

Next time you hit a paywall for something related to this case, PM the link to me and I'll give it a shot. You might encounter more often since your reading from Germany (just a guess).
 
Hi Michael, I'm glad you are here with us. That area has been speculated to be Abby's coat from very early on.
My question which always led me away from that theory is, wouldn't that place her teetering on the edge of the bridge?

michael.gartley said:
I am increasingly convinced the blue region on the left hand side of ONE of the two officially released BG images is not an artifact, but something actually in the field of view of the phone's camera. In other words, I cannot find any reason the blue region would be any type of image artifact from compression or processing or display.

However I can only speculate what the object might be.

An example of such an object could be a person's sleeve or the backside of a loose-fitting and unzipped jacket or sweatshirt. I've included a figure showing an example region of the inside of Abigail's sweatshirt that is in the shadow of the sun making appear dark blue (as it should).

There is nothing in the BG image providing evidence that it IS Abigail, so one can only speculate w/o proof IMO.

attachment.php


The source for the Snapchat image is from the heavy.com article, and the source of the BG image is the Feb 15th alert from ISP.
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Bird of Paradise said:
Hi Michael, I'm glad you are here with us. That area has been speculated to be Abby's coat from very early on.
My question which always led me away from that theory is, wouldn't that place her teetering on the edge of the bridge?
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Abby could have been turning to face BG who is coming up behind her. This would put her away from the edge.

Sent from my Commodore 64
 
(Ugh, getting that sick feeling again reading these latest posts re: the coat.)
 
I recently saw an episode of Forensic Files, (it might have been episode 2 on the Netflix Collection (1)), and they used "photogammetry" to estimate a perp's height...(oh I remember now, it was a grainy image from a store's surveillance cameras (the husband was the killer, big surprise, anyway))...when they were doing that I was like , "cool, we're/they're doing the same thing in Abby's and Libby's case". So, if that's her jacket, as mentioned, where does that put his height?

Glad to have you knowledgeable and talented folks here working with these images.

http://www.photogrammetry.com/
software resources at the above link:


Photogrammetry

"Photogrammetryis the science of making measurements from photographs, especially for recovering the exact positions of surface points. It may also be used to recover the motion pathways of designated reference points on any moving object, on its components, and in the immediately adjacent environment. Photogrammetric analysis may be applied to one photograph, or may use high-speed photography and remote sensing to detect, measure and record complex 2-D and 3-D motion fields (see also*sonar,*radar,*lidar, etc.). Photogrammetry feeds measurements from remote sensing and the results of imagery analysis into computational models in an attempt to successively estimate, with increasing accuracy, the actual, 3-D relative motions within the researched field."
*more at link
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photogrammetry
 
You got that right! ☺

Sent from my SM-S120VL using Tapatalk
 
margarita25 said:
I recently saw an episode of Forensic Files, (it might have been episode 2 on the Netflix Collection (1)), and they used "photogammetry" to estimate a preps height...(oh I remember now, it was a grainy image from a store's surveillance cameras (the husband was the killer, big surprise, anyway))...when they were doing that I was like , "cool, we're/they're doing the same thing in Abby's and Libby's case". So, if that's her jacket, as mentioned, where does that put his height?

Glad to have you knowledgeable and talented folks here working with these images.
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Excellent point! We (non LE people) could do that also if we had the entire image from the video frame, and not just a portion of it. Also would be helpful to know the camera model.

I'd be happy to go through the analysis if I knew those two things. LE should be able to do that easily, assuming they know the camera model and have the entire image frame.
 
Michael, are you working with the original two photos that were shown by LE?
 
Here is a general sample of the rope I'm possibly seeing sticking out the top of his jacket, moo. I think it extends towards the bottom as well. In the animated gif, it shows imo the bottom possibly changing shape/position, moo.

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Who made his image? Credit to poster.
 

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(Gah maybe the gun is in his pocket vs the body holster...)
 
I wish there was a way to easily import all the image manipulations from various members throughout the 50something threads...

What about that raccoon face one, lol. Seriously! Not being facetious!
 
margarita25 said:
I wish there was a way to easily import all the image manipulations from various members throughout the 50something threads...

What about that raccoon face one, lol. Seriously! Not being facetious!
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Everyone who has uploaded pictures should be able to upload them again ... I think it's max five per post. I haven't really done anything with the photo other than lighten the shadowed side of his face with the photoshop dodge tool - an it's obvious that I didn't use an original photo ... so not very useful.

double indiana 2.jpg
 
michael.gartley said:
Excellent point! We (non LE people) could do that also if we had the entire image from the video frame, and not just a portion of it. Also would be helpful to know the camera model.

I'd be happy to go through the analysis if I knew those two things. LE should be able to do that easily, assuming they know the camera model and have the entire image frame.
Click to expand...

I do recall some discussion I think on the camera. Was this ever determined? So many posts to go through...hopefully someone will jump in...
 
Bird of Paradise said:
Hi Michael, I'm glad you are here with us. That area has been speculated to be Abby's coat from very early on.
My question which always led me away from that theory is, wouldn't that place her teetering on the edge of the bridge?
Click to expand...

I don't think it has to have her teetering on the edge of the bridge if she was standing on one of the side platforms.. I have a 3D model of the bridge and terrain and two people that I did my best guess about how people were positioned. I may be very off on the positions, you can tell me what you think.

Here is a generic 3D from the CAD program (Blender is what I use). showing the camera position (black trapazoid, pt of it is where the camera is), and two people about the height of BG, one further along ahead

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and here is a render, notional iPhone video frame with no zoom (1x). If she was standing on the side platform she could catch BG on the edge of the video frame. Which would explain the poor resolution of what ISP provided.

attachment.php


There is most definitely a better position for the 2nd object (person?) ahead of BG that would get VERY close to what LE released showing something blue at the edge.

However showing that geometrically and camera-wise it is possible, doesn't make it true.

If anyone here knows how to use Blender 3D, I am happy to share the scene file and you can generate different scenarios. Or you can give me different ideas and I can test them out.

what do you think? this is all just guesses on positions and camera orientation by me.
 

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Woooowwwwwwww!! Fancy!!! Yay, thanks for being here! And thanks everyone for all your time and images throughout all these threads.

michael.gartley said:
I don't think it has to have her teetering on the edge of the bridge if she was standing on one of the side platforms.. I have a 3D model of the bridge and terrain and two people that I did my best guess about how people were positioned. I may be very off on the positions, you can tell me what you think.

Here is a generic 3D from the CAD program (Blender is what I use). showing the camera position (black trapazoid, pt of it is where the camera is), and two people about the height of BG, one further along ahead

attachment.php


and here is a render, notional iPhone video frame with no zoom (1x). If she was standing on the side platform she could catch BG on the edge of the video frame. Which would explain the poor resolution of what ISP provided.

attachment.php


There is most definitely a better position for the 2nd object (person?) ahead of BG that would get VERY close to what LE released showing something blue at the edge.

However showing that geometrically and camera-wise it is possible, doesn't make it true.

If anyone here knows how to use Blender 3D, I am happy to share the scene file and you can generate different scenarios. Or you can give me different ideas and I can test them out.

what do you think? this is all just guesses on positions and camera orientation by me.
Click to expand...
 
michael.gartley said:
Good point. If some person was walking in front of BG, but equidistant from the sides as BG, the bottom of whatever the blue feature is seems consistent with the bottom of BG's sleeve. Is this what you saw also? I drew a line along the bridge side indicating the forward motion along bridge direction.

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In other words, if BG was further along his walking path in the image, it seems as though the bottom of his sleeve would be close to the bottom of the blue feature on the left side of the image. IMO.

What do you think?
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I think it would be hard to calculate his height from her even if that is part of her hoodie unless you know how far apart they are. It looks like you used parallel lines for your comparison, but that's not taking perspective into account. The farther away the object is, the closer together the two lines would be. The bottom of the blue line would also be closer to the ground if it were her, unless there was quite a bit if distance between the bottom of the line and the part of the bridge you can see (she's close, but we're seeing a more distant part of the bridge.

I guess I'll stop at that, I think I'm probably causing more confusion with everything I say trying to clarify!

MOO
 
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