17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

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I wonder how the lawns behind the townhomes gets cared for, or how it is maintained. In other words, are there sprinkler heads in the lawn?
 
m00c0w said:
Then why do you think it's so unreasonable that he was able to holster his weapon? No witnesses claim he had it out and was walking around with it. That's where the police found it. It doesn't take much effort.
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But, but... how would he have the presence of mind to holster weapon when he was barely conscious and the the last thing he remembers is moving his head from the concrete and, well, you know...??


"George was out of breath, he was barely conscious, his last thing he remembers doing was moving his head from the concrete to the grass, so that if he was banged one more time he wouldn't be -- you know, wearing diapers for the rest of his life and being spoon fed by his brother, and there would have been George dead had he not acted decisively and instantaneously in that moment when he was being disarmed by --"

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...29/pmt.01.html
 
LolaMoon08 said:
I don't think George shot Trayvon while Trayvon was on top of him beating him up. I do believe that they were wrestling over the gun that George Zimmerman made sure Trayvon knew about. I believe when Trayvon realized that he lost the battle over the gun, he was getting up so that he could run and that is when George shot Trayvon. Trayvon then grabbed his gunshot wound and turned around thinking he may still be able to run and just collapsed. Almost an instant death.

MOO
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That sounds very plausible.
 
gxm said:
That's odd. My husband went to BU to study music. He wasn't accepted into their music program but he did take music classes there. Are there no "general" classes open to people who are interested in criminal justice and want to learn something about it, or take the courses in hopes that by successfully completing them they'll be accepted into the program. Have colleges really changed that much since I went (many many years ago)?

ETA. Apparently colleges haven't changed much:

On the Seminole State College website it states that the A.A. General degree is a prerequisite for the Criminal Justice major.

BBM:

"Prerequisite Courses for the Major, Criminal Justice

Prerequisite Courses for the Major, Criminal Justice
Subplan Code: SOC-CJ
CIP: 1192401010

The Associate in Arts (A.A.) degree is designed for transfer to an upper-division public college or university in the state of Florida. Students will complete the A.A. General degree, including common program prerequisites for their program of choice."


Here is a link to their website.
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My point is that he was never enrolled in the CJ program. I am sure he hoped to be, but as you stated he needed the associates degree first. After that, he would need to apply and be accepted.
IMO he mislead people by telling them he was already in the CJ program.
JMO
 
m00c0w said:
lol, his head would have been a nice shade of green. Yeah, you can get things similar to rugburn from the ground. I'd imagine it would also bleed a lot on the head.
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More than a gash from the concrete?

My personal opinion is that Trayvon never slammed George's head into the ground. I think that while George and Trayvon were wrestling over the gun, his head was rubbing up against the pavement. I believe that when Trayvon realized that he was not going to get this gun away from George, he tried to get up and run, but was shot on his way getting up.

MOO
 
LolaMoon08 said:
I don't think George shot Trayvon while Trayvon was on top of him beating him up. I do believe that they were wrestling over the gun that George Zimmerman made sure Trayvon knew about. I believe when Trayvon realized that he lost the battle over the gun, he was getting up so that he could run and that is when George shot Trayvon. Trayvon then grabbed his gunshot wound and turned around thinking he may still be able to run and just collapsed. Almost an instant death.

MOO
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That is my hope Lola, that it was an instant death.


~jmo~
 
suzihawk said:
But, but... how would he have the presence of mind to holster weapon when he was barely conscious and the the last thing he remembers is moving his head from the concrete and, well, you know...??


"George was out of breath, he was barely conscious, his last thing he remembers doing was moving his head from the concrete to the grass, so that if he was banged one more time he wouldn't be -- you know, wearing diapers for the rest of his life and being spoon fed by his brother, and there would have been George dead had he not acted decisively and instantaneously in that moment when he was being disarmed by --"

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...29/pmt.01.html
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Why wouldn't he? He's had weapons training because he has a carry permit. It's required by Florida law. I guess I'm not seeing why holstering the weapon after the alleged threat has been eliminated is such a contentious issue.
 
gxm said:
That's odd. My husband went to BU to study music. He wasn't accepted into their music program but he did take music classes there. Are there no "general" classes open to people who are interested in criminal justice and want to learn something about it, or take the courses in hopes that by successfully completing them they'll be accepted into the program. Have colleges really changed that much since I went (many many years ago)?

ETA. Apparently colleges haven't changed much:

On the Seminole State College website it states that the A.A. General degree is a prerequisite for the Criminal Justice major.

BBM:

"Prerequisite Courses for the Major, Criminal Justice

Prerequisite Courses for the Major, Criminal Justice
Subplan Code: SOC-CJ
CIP: 1192401010

The Associate in Arts (A.A.) degree is designed for transfer to an upper-division public college or university in the state of Florida. Students will complete the A.A. General degree, including common program prerequisites for their program of choice."


Here is a link to their website.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what those requirements are for... Maybe transfer students? You can get an AS in Criminal Justice there.

http://www.seminolestate.edu/criminal-justice/college-credit/asdegree/
 
PaintingAnemone said:
I've been lurking for a bit, but I just wanted to say how much I personally agree with that.

I absolutely think that making Martin a less sympathetic victim is the end goal for far too many people. IMO, that is the primary reason why people argue so hard against his status as a minor, and it is also why his height and weight appears to be in such great dispute. For example, the police report puts him at 6'0" and 160lbs. Yet I've seen many posts that refer to him as taller and heavier - I had a recent discussion with someone who insisted Martin was 6'5" and weighed 190lbs. People want Martin to be bigger than he was because that makes him a more imposing figure, and makes Zimmerman's claim of a struggle far more dire.

IMO, people aren't looking for the "truth," or "accuracy" when they insist that Martin was not a kid, or make irrelevant claims about his school record, etc. What they're looking for is justification for Martin's death, and reasons to absolve Zimmerman of the shooting.
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WELCOME, Painting Anemone! Thank you for your kind response to my post:) I totally agree with the poimts you made above. I hope to see you contribute more here at WS! Again, welcome!
 
m00c0w said:
I thought it just implied Zimmerman was afraid the next blow might end him?
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But why that particular blow? Why not the one before that or the one before that?

Look, this discussion is getting ridiculous. I stated already that it's the wording of the bolded: "The last thing he remembers doing was moving his head from the concrete to the grass, so that if he was banged one more time, he wouldn't be, you know, wearing diapers for the rest of his life and being spoon-fed by his brother" that I find so over the top, as if GZ knew exactly how many blows he could take before he'd be paralyzed.

If you interpret it differently, ok. Then we disagree.
 
This is the thing... it has been stated that George says Trayvon was trying to get George's gun... which IMO... means that George pulled out his gun and this is when the altercation started... the whole reaching for his "phone" is a bunch of B/S to me... I think we all know what he was reaching for.

The moment that George pulled out that gun, IMO, he lost all rights to any SYG defense... because it was now Trayvon's right to stand HIS ground against a gun-toting <modslipping myself>.

MOO
 
IzzyBlanche said:
But why that particular blow? Why not the one before that or the one before that?

Look, this discussion is getting ridiculous. I stated already that it's the wording of the bolded: "The last thing he remembers doing was moving his head from the concrete to the grass, so that if he was banged one more time, he wouldn't be, you know, wearing diapers for the rest of his life and being spoon-fed by his brother" that I find so over the top, as if GZ knew exactly how many blows he could take before he'd be paralyzed.

If you interpret it differently, ok. Then we disagree.
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I take it as just a general, "He was afraid he was going to wind up paralyzed or worse", and not that he specifically knew that that one blow would do it. We can agree to disagree. :)
 
Another thing I guess could be asked is... if George was waiting for LE to call him back so he could tell them where he was, why wasn't the phone still in his hand?

eta: Why did he have to reach for a phone that should have been in his hand? How long before he hung up the phone until the altercation?
 
m00c0w said:
No, we know exactly what was said by the brother. We don't know what Trayvon did, or was doing. There's a very large difference between those two things, and one allows for conjecture. The other is a deliberate mischaracterization.
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We know he wasn't committing a crime. BBM
 
LolaMoon08 said:
This is the thing... it has been stated that George says Trayvon was trying to get George's gun... which IMO... means that George pulled out his gun and this is when the altercation started... the whole reaching for his "phone" is a bunch of B/S to me... I think we all know what he was reaching for.

The moment that George pulled out that gun, IMO, he lost all rights to any SYG defense... because it was now Trayvon's right to stand HIS ground against a gun-toting <modslipping myself>.

MOO
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If Zimmerman did pull the gun first, I'd say you're correct. He loses his right to SYG because he made the first aggressive action - pulling a weapon out/showing it in a threatening manner (which is, itself, a crime). It's also entirely possible that Martin felt the gun/saw the gun when he was allegedly on top of Zimmerman, though.
 
m00c0w said:
Why wouldn't he? He's had weapons training because he has a carry permit. It's required by Florida law. I guess I'm not seeing why holstering the weapon after the alleged threat has been eliminated is such a contentious issue.
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Wow!! Way to marginalize the death of a young man - a human being. smh

Of course, we know GZ is such a law abiding citizen that the last thing on his mind after shooting a young man to death and before losing conciousness is reholstering his weapon. :rolleyes:
 
suzihawk said:
Wow!! Way to marginalize the death of a young man - a human being. smh
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I'm sorry I'm not appealing to emotion?

suzihawk said:
Of course, we know GZ is such a law abiding citizen that the last thing on his mind after shooting a young man to death and before losing conciousness is reholstering his weapon. :rolleyes:
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He lost consciousness? At what point?
 
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