Evidence subject to Frye - *UPDATED* 2011.05.09 (ATTN: ALL ORDERS IN!)

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:cry: I won't be able to watch any of the hearings - darn work! :steamed: (Gotta save some vacation days for the actual trial, yanno :great: )

I'll end up coming home each night and watching/reading :eek:nline: until all hours of the night, but it will be worth it. I look forward to reading all of your (as usual) excellent posts & will be hanging on every word! :tyou: ALL in advance, lol :blowkiss:

ETA: Oops, forgot to say that I think the air sample, cloroform & heart sticker will have the hardest time getting admitted into trial. Fingers, toes & eyes crossed though. :D
 
So will ICA be scribbling furiously during the Frye hearings? I imagine it will all go over her 11th grade education head. But I have a feeling she will pretend to be a scientist who knows all about whatever they are talking about.
 
Hubby just asked why they call it a "Frye" hearing. He asks "Because they want to fry her?":floorlaugh:
 
I don't see how the decomp odor can be excluded. If it still remains in the car - how does defense account for it. SA should request that the jury do their own "nose test".
 
ON JVM tonight (I muted her & read the paper until this case came on, lol), I think they said the chloroform/decomp odor issue is the same thing, meaning if the cloroform gets tossed, so does the decomp odor. Would this include all rederences to it by witnesses, too? ...hoping I misheard - did anyone else see it, or is just more well informed? :blush:
 
I don't see how the decomp odor can be excluded. If it still remains in the car - how does defense account for it. SA should request that the jury do their own "nose test".

I believe it has already been decided that layman's opinions as to what the car smelled like will be allowed, but this is the argument as to whether the scientific data will be allowed.
 
Thanks jomo, I have been out of town doing field work and needed to get organized.

Ritanita rocks!
:rocker:
She lays it all out so clearly.

So we have:

  • Stain in car
  • Heart sticker
  • Spoilation of evidence (trunk odor/garbage)
  • Exclude decomposition odor
  • Post-mortem hair banding
  • Chloroform

as well as:
  • Canine alerts (postponed from evidentiary hearings)
All in 3 days?
Thats sure sounds like alot to cover.

Agreed it is a lot to cover, however HHJP has scheduled TWO days, Wednesday and Thursday for six hours per day starting at 9am, which is 6am my time - sigh .:innocent:
 
I don't see how the decomp odor can be excluded. If it still remains in the car - how does defense account for it. SA should request that the jury do their own "nose test".
IMO, having the jury smell the car is pointless, because they have no point of reference, unless there's a member that's actually smelled a decomposing body. Otherwise all the jurors will get out of their smell test is the car stinks really, really, really, really bad.
 
IMO, having the jury smell the car is pointless, because they have no point of reference, unless there's a member that's actually smelled a decomposing body. Otherwise all the jurors will get out of their smell test is the car stinks really, really, really, really bad.

It's like you just know what it is when you smell it, hence, CA's remark, "It's smells like a dead body in the damn car." It's as if it's a defense mechanism in the back of your brain. lol You just know. Plus take a bag of the same garbage and extract that smell and a sample of decomposition, let the jury smell it and they would know once they smelled the car. But I don't think defense wants anyone near that car. The smell of garbage would not still smell once it was removed over a long period of time. jmo
 
It's like you just know what it is when you smell it, hence, CA's remark, "It's smells like a dead body in the damn car." It's as if it's a defense mechanism in the back of your brain. lol You just know. Plus take a bag of the same garbage and extract that smell and a sample of decomposition, let the jury smell it and they would know once they smelled the car. But I don't think defense wants anyone near that car. The smell of garbage would not still smell once it was removed over a long period of time. jmo
However, IIRC, Cindy, through her nursing has experienced the smell of human decomp; she had a point reference.

And no, I don't think a juror who has never smelled a dead human body before will relate the smell to human decomp. But I also think it would be unconscionable to have the jury smell it, because it "hangs" in your nose - for days and days and can make a person physically ill.

There's plenty of evidence to convict without making a jury smell the trunk.
 
However, IIRC, Cindy, through her nursing has experienced the smell of human decomp; she had a point reference.

And no, I don't think a juror who has never smelled a dead human body before will relate the smell to human decomp. But I also think it would be unconscionable to have the jury smell it, because it "hangs" in your nose - for days and days and can make a person physically ill.

There's plenty of evidence to convict without making a jury smell the trunk.


I'm not an expert but knew the minute I smelled it what it was. I think you find many people will agree that it is unmistakeable when you smell it the first time. I agree with the jury not smelling the trunk. If it were necessary for them to see the car it would have to be done at the end of the day so the jury could return to their room and shower if necessary. But I think after three years the smell would not be as strong but would still be recognizable.

My guess is defense would determine if a visit were necessary. I don't think they want that to happen. jmo
 
Nums24 has just posted this in today's news. :great:


Jerry Deming, Orange County Sheriff's - Amended Emergency Motion for Protective Order to Prevent Yuri Melich from Testifying at this week's Hearings:

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27279722/det...=casey+updates


What the heck is Baez up to now and why would he need Yuri Melich at the Frye hearings?
 
I'm not an expert but knew the minute I smelled it what it was. I think you find many people will agree that it is unmistakeable when you smell it the first time. I agree with the jury not smelling the trunk. If it were necessary for them to see the car it would have to be done at the end of the day so the jury could return to their room and shower if necessary. But I think after three years the smell would not be as strong but would still be recognizable.

My guess is defense would determine if a visit were necessary. I don't think they want that to happen. jmo
I'm not an expert either, but I've written plenty of crime fiction and spoken to heaps of people who have had the unfortunate experience of finding a dead body; hidden in the bushes, under a car, in a garage - none of those people related the smell to a dead human - only that the smell made them sick and was like nothing they had ever smelled before. But I'm certainly willing to concede there are people who just knew instantly they were smelling a dead body and I just haven't met them yet.

The smell may not be as strong after three years, but I still believe it would be unusually cruel to make a jury sniff the trunk, because even if it's not as strong, it's a smell that lingers with you. With the added knowledge that the body was an innocent baby, it will really screw with the juries heads, imo. Those poor people are going to have to endure so much already. Making them smell the decomp of a dead baby is crossing an ethical line.

Of course these are just my opinions. I'm not an expert on anything at all, so there you go.

:D
 
Nums24 has just posted this in today's news. :great:


Jerry Deming, Orange County Sheriff's - Amended Emergency Motion for Protective Order to Prevent Yuri Melich from Testifying at this week's Hearings:

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27279722/det...=casey+updates


What the heck is Baez up to now and why would he need Yuri Melich at the Frye hearings?

That link isn't working...

ETA: I found it- Baez is being a jerk as usual, trying to mess with YM. Apparently he wants to tie up YM for the three days of the hearings, and YM has other work to do. so the OCSO have tried to negotiate with JB as to setting times when he's actually needed, or having him on-call but Baez doesn't seem to have learned his lesson and is still acting like an azz.
 
Nums24 has just posted this in today's news. :great:


Jerry Deming, Orange County Sheriff's - Amended Emergency Motion for Protective Order to Prevent Yuri Melich from Testifying at this week's Hearings:

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27279722/det...=casey+updates


What the heck is Baez up to now and why would he need Yuri Melich at the Frye hearings?

It doesn't seem to be to prevent him from testifying..they just want to know when he will be called so he doesn't waste day after day waiting. JB told him he had to show up the first day and see how testimony progresses. Shocker.:banghead:
 
It doesn't seem to be to prevent him from testifying..they just want to know when he will be called so he doesn't waste day after day waiting. JB told him he had to show up the first day and see how testimony progresses. Shocker.:banghead:
LOL, Baez, because a detective has nothing better to do than sit around all day waiting to be called, right?

Maybe Baez just assumes everyone else has the same work ethic as he does.

Take that as you will ;)
 
Um - I don't know how to fix that - I just pasted it from Today's News because I thought WTH? :waitasec:

Maybe someone else knows how or it came in a tweet to Nums24?

The actual link re the motion on the News works though because I read it.
 
But, what would Yuri be testifying about at a Frye Hearing? Yes, this is :loser: behavior from Baez - but what does he want Yuri there for?
 
I'm not an expert either, but I've written plenty of crime fiction and spoken to heaps of people who have had the unfortunate experience of finding a dead body; hidden in the bushes, under a car, in a garage - none of those people related the smell to a dead human - only that the smell made them sick and was like nothing they had ever smelled before. But I'm certainly willing to concede there are people who just knew instantly they were smelling a dead body and I just haven't met them yet.

The smell may not be as strong after three years, but I still believe it would be unusually cruel to make a jury sniff the trunk, because even if it's not as strong, it's a smell that lingers with you. With the added knowledge that the body was an innocent baby, it will really screw with the juries heads, imo. Those poor people are going to have to endure so much already. Making them smell the decomp of a dead baby is crossing an ethical line.

Of course these are just my opinions. I'm not an expert on anything at all, so there you go.

:D

IIRC everyone who has actually smelled this car has said the same thing- it smells like human decomposition..... including ICA's family.
 
But, what would Yuri be testifying about at a Frye Hearing? Yes, this is :loser: behavior from Baez - but what does he want Yuri there for?

Who knows? Witness to the cadaver dogs maybe. I can't even begin to crawl into his head.:waitasec:
 
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