IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #32

akh · Apr 30, 2014

bx2 said:
We've heard this framework of next day events, but I agree we don't necessarily know the order of how things proceeded or how they come to happen. For instance, we know he contacted HT and there was this arrangement of key pickup, but as discussed it's unknown on if he had attempted to go to SW first already or not. Seems just as easy that he got ahold of HT to find out if she had seen LS that morning, and when she said she hadn't, they arranged the key hand-off so he could go check right then. Not that it couldn't be done, but remember there is key card access required at SW and the elevator just to get to her apt door.

How would a guest visit at SW? Can you buzz the apartment of the person you are attempting to visit?

As for the jilted bf scenario where he goes looking for her, wouldn't this trigger a cell phone ping discrepancy in his story? Leaving his cell phone behind if he was desperately seeking her out would require some serious pre-meditation.

Hypothetically...
Or simply forgot it and left it on the table. Or was only intending to go a few blocks and intentionally left it. I don't think premeditation is necessarily required. But if he did leave it behind, and then snapped in a confrontation, he's probably not going to go back to retrieve the phone at that point. Not only would premeditation not be required, but he wouldn't even have to have knowledge that the phone could make him traceable. It would just be a lucky break for a criminal in that scenario.

doubtingthomas · Apr 30, 2014

Something I was curious about. The summer session was ending and students going home. I think JW had graduated but the 5N guys were coming back. So, my question is, would they keep their furniture in the apts till they returned or send them home? If they sent them home would they rent a truck and move by themselves or hire a moving company? Since JW's father came to Btown and they left shortly there after would they have moved themselves or hired it done?

sammi89 · Apr 30, 2014

akh said:
I'm not saying we need to forget 5N and look elsewhere. I'm saying be careful of confirmation bias and assuming we have enough accurate information to proclaim them obviously guilty.

We have even less information on JW. We should then be careful of confirmation bias with JW too and consider innocent explanations for him too, right?

sammi89 · Apr 30, 2014

doubtingthomas said:
Something I was curious about. The summer session was ending and students going home. I think JW had graduated but the 5N guys were coming back. So, my question is, would they keep their furniture in the apts till they returned or send them home? If they sent them home would they rent a truck and move by themselves or hire a moving company? Since JW's father came to Btown and they left shortly there after would they have moved themselves or hired it done?

I am pretty sure JW was back that fall. Remember, he threatened JR at a party?

sammi89 · Apr 30, 2014

bx2 said:
As for the jilted bf scenario where he goes looking for her, wouldn't this trigger a cell phone ping discrepancy in his story? Leaving his cell phone behind if he was desperately seeking her out would require some serious pre-meditation.

Can't police request your browser history too?

If he was spying on what was happening via social media, perhaps there might be a trail?

kpeacock · Apr 30, 2014

sammi89 said:
I am pretty sure JW was back that fall. Remember, he threatened JR at a party?

I've wondered about this. Didn't he graduate in 2011 (before fall)?

holly18 · Apr 30, 2014

Ixchel13 said:
actually .., Holly, you're the one that found out JW's business was leased to a client. Remember? I think doubting thomas provided the link that has JW heading up the company, the company that was started up in August of 2011,
two months after Lauren disappeared, next to a business owned by JR. The
company that was then sold fairly soon after to, as you have said, a client. Now, I'm wondering if this company they sold to is a client, or a lessee? I mean it could be contrived as the same thing, but were they a client before becoming a lessee, or did they find someone to sell the biz to, lease them the space, and then consider them a client? Later this evening I guess we'll have to wade through some property transfers and business sales in ol'
Birmingham and find out just who owns what on 123/225 Brown Street. Could be even more.

I didn't say it was leased to a client. I don't have time to go back into all the past posts, but my impression was that the business you were referring to was a business JW's parent's company represented, it was never said (before doubtingthomas' post) that JW had owned/been directly involved with a business on that street. I never said anything about leasing or selling a business, not sure where you're getting that from

Edit: I think this whole thing is a little confusing, at least for me. What I'm saying is that before doubtingthomas provided information, my impression was that JW's family represented a bunch of companies, and one of those companies was near a company JR was associated with. Obviously given the video that doubtingthomas posted, the connection/link was more significant than that.

sammi89 · Apr 30, 2014

kpeacock said:
I've wondered about this. Didn't he graduate in 2011 (before fall)?

I am pretty sure they all came back that fall.

http://ww.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/08/23/news.qp-3438184.sto

Students are not considered officially enrolled until classes start....but many have already registered for their fall classes including Spierers boyfriend of two years, Jesse Wolff, two of her roommates at Smallwood Plaza, and a few of the young men who had direct contact with Spierer before she disappeared.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...sappears-her-parents-exclusive-interview.html

All of the persons of interest in her disappearance are currently enrolled for the fall semester at IU.

doubtingthomas · Apr 30, 2014

http://archive.lohud.com/article/20...riends-school-reflect-missing-college-student

There are two paragraphs that caught my attention in this article:

"We're all, to an extent, 'partyers,'" Tamir said, asked whether Spierer would often go out to bars. "But I wouldn't consider her the ultimate partyer. She went out, she had a good time, but it wasn't excessive."

Wouldn't the ultimate partyer be someone using a lot of drugs as JW's mother has stated. IMO, the ultimate partyer would be someone doing a lot of drugs and drinking.

It was hours later, when bar employees saw that Wolff had texted her phone, that they called him to report they had it. He retrieved it, checked her apartment, then reported her missing and called her parents to share the disturbing news.

Is this reported wrong? They state JW retrieved the phone. The other three items reported are correct so why wouldn't this be.

akh · Apr 30, 2014

sammi89 said:
We have even less information on JW. We should then be careful of confirmation bias with JW too and consider innocent explanations for him too, right?

I don't see why we can't consider them both (5N and JW) high probability PsOI and discuss it accordingly. Meanwhile, remembering both sets of PsOI, and everyone else, is innocent until proven guilty. Then discuss theories in a logical manner. If the only flaw in a theory relies on speculation then that doesn't disprove the theory.

<modsnip>

That for me is the disconnect with some: I can't see how 5N and JW don't remain almost equally in play here. Yet, they don't. JW has to be wedged into these discussions and the topic will quickly turn back to 5N's obvious guilt without some of us going out of our way to keep that avenue at least somewhat in the discussion.

<modsnip> I continually state I consider 5N and JW PsOI 1A and 1B and at the top of the list? And until there is some information in the public domain that begins to clear them, or until something breaks in another direction, those remain the highest probable candidates.

Ixchel13 · Apr 30, 2014

holly18 said:
I didn't say it was leased to a client. I don't have time to go back into all the past posts, but my impression was that the business you were referring to was a business JW's parent's company represented, it was never said (before doubtingthomas' post) that JW had owned/been directly involved with a business on that street. I never said anything about leasing or selling a business, not sure where you're getting that from

Edit: I think this whole thing is a little confusing, at least for me. What I'm saying is that before doubtingthomas provided information, my impression was that JW's family represented a bunch of companies, and one of those companies was near a company JR was associated with. Obviously given the video that doubtingthomas posted, the connection/link was more significant than that.

yeah significantly more

sammi89 · Apr 30, 2014

doubtingthomas said:
http://archive.lohud.com/article/20...riends-school-reflect-missing-college-student

There are two paragraphs that caught my attention in this article:

"We're all, to an extent, 'partyers,'" Tamir said, asked whether Spierer would often go out to bars. "But I wouldn't consider her the ultimate partyer. She went out, she had a good time, but it wasn't excessive."

Wouldn't the ultimate partyer be someone using a lot of drugs as JW's mother has stated. IMO, the ultimate partyer would be someone doing a lot of drugs and drinking.

IDK if the "ultimate partier" has to be someone who does "a lot of drugs and drinking" but it could be. It seems like this group did those things, but IDK if that has ever been totally confirmed. HT was saying she didn't consider LS to be the "ultimate partier" anyway and she says "to an extent" they are all partiers, not that they are the ultimate partiers, so I don't know if she is really saying anything too telling, except they at least sometimes went to the bars and that LS wasn't "excessive," whatever any of that actually means. It sounds like the question was asking specifically about bars too, IMO.

Not disagreeing, but I'm not sure that her statement was meant to reflect drug use. Again, it seems like they did at least some harder drugs (IMO) but I'm not sure her intent in responding was any kind of commentary on drug use.

It was hours later, when bar employees saw that Wolff had texted her phone, that they called him to report they had it. He retrieved it, checked her apartment, then reported her missing and called her parents to share the disturbing news.

Is this reported wrong? They state JW retrieved the phone. The other three items reported are correct so why wouldn't this be.

It might be wrong. It could be right. Getting some things right doesn't preclude the author from getting other things wrong. Who knows. Other sources have said the cops collected it. I also noticed that they have him reporting her missing and other sources have said that SR & AR reported it. I would just consider it one of those pieces we can't be sure about.

IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #32 - Page 38 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

"Jesse was texting Lauren the next day to see where she was, but he got no answer because the bar had her phone," Tamir said. "After a few texts, the bar texted Jesse back saying your friend left her phone here, tell her to come get it."

Click to expand...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...ticle-1.127785

Cops found her shoes and cell phone at the pub earlier this week.

Click to expand...

Ros · Apr 30, 2014

doubtingthomas said:
Something I was curious about. The summer session was ending and students going home. I think JW had graduated but the 5N guys were coming back. So, my question is, would they keep their furniture in the apts till they returned or send them home? If they sent them home would they rent a truck and move by themselves or hire a moving company? Since JW's father came to Btown and they left shortly there after would they have moved themselves or hired it done?

Some student apartments in Bloomington come furnished. Some don't. Most have 12 month leases. Sometimes students sublet them for the summer, sometimes they stay in them themselves and work or take summer classes, sometimes they leave them unoccupied for the summer. Few students would move their furniture home for the summer.

Whether one hires a mover or does it oneself usually depends on factors such as the amount of stuff to move, the price of a mover, the availability of strong people to carry stuff, the availability of a rental truck or trailer, etc.

bessie · Apr 30, 2014

sammi89 said:
We have even less information on JW. We should then be careful of confirmation bias with JW too and consider innocent explanations for him too, right?

Absolutely!

bx2 · Apr 30, 2014

akh said:
How would a guest visit at SW? Can you buzz the apartment of the person you are attempting to visit?

Yes, though tailgating someone in would probably not be cared about either.

sammi89 said:
It might be wrong. It could be right. Getting some things right doesn't preclude the author from getting other things wrong. Who knows. Other sources have said the cops collected it. I also noticed that they have him reporting her missing and other sources have said that SR & AR reported it. I would just consider it one of those pieces we can't be sure about.

Snipped. This is probably a small detail but am I correct in presuming that her phone was without a PIN/password? If the bar contacted JW "hours later" to tell him to have his friend pick up the phone, the only way they could have done so would be by using the phone that he had been trying to reach, right? Any other way the bar would be able to contact him later?

JW may have known the PIN anyway, but if it was open, it would give either the police or him direct access to the missed calls, texts, voicemails, possibly e-mail and social media clues right away.

sammi89 · Apr 30, 2014

bx2 said:
Yes, though tailgating someone in would probably not be cared about either.

Snipped. This is probably a small detail but am I correct in presuming that her phone was without a PIN/password? If the bar contacted JW "hours later" to tell him to have his friend pick up the phone, the only way they could have done so would be by using the phone that he had been trying to reach, right? Any other way the bar would be able to contact him later?

JW may have known the PIN anyway, but if it was open, it would give either the police or him direct access to the missed calls, texts, voicemails, possibly e-mail and social media clues right away.

I hadn't thought about the PIN. I agree, I assume she must not have had a PIN if they were able to text JW from it. I don't have to enter my PIN to answer an incoming phone call, but I'm pretty sure I have to enter my PIN to text.

Depending on who actually collected the phone, they would have access to all of that, as long as she was still logged in to her email/facebook account, which she probably was.

I'm still amazed it wasn't stolen after she left it though. Hopefully LE got to it first and/or got her phone records quickly. It seems like LE could check whether anything was deleted off of her phone as long as they requested her phone records quickly enough (I could be wrong though! I'm not super familiar with that area), so hopefully that was done in a timely manner.

Ixchel13 · Apr 30, 2014

sammi89 said:
IDK if the "ultimate partier" has to be someone who does "a lot of drugs and drinking" but it could be. It seems like this group did those things, but IDK if that has ever been totally confirmed. HT was saying she didn't consider LS to be the "ultimate partier" anyway and she says "to an extent" they are all partiers, not that they are the ultimate partiers, so I don't know if she is really saying anything too telling, except they at least sometimes went to the bars and that LS wasn't "excessive," whatever any of that actually means. It sounds like the question was asking specifically about bars too, IMO.

Not disagreeing, but I'm not sure that her statement was meant to reflect drug use. Again, it seems like they did at least some harder drugs (IMO) but I'm not sure her intent in responding was any kind of commentary on drug use.

It might be wrong. It could be right. Getting some things right doesn't preclude the author from getting other things wrong. Who knows. Other sources have said the cops collected it. I also noticed that they have him reporting her missing and other sources have said that SR & AR reported it. I would just consider it one of those pieces we can't be sure about.

IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #32 - Page 38 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

but whether she "meant to" or not, HT did brand Lauren as an ultimate partier in her famous "this time she went too far." statement

Ixchel13 · Apr 30, 2014

bessie said:
Absolutely!

can he also be sleuthed?

VeryVeritas · Apr 30, 2014

Ixchel13 said:
but whether she "meant to" or not, HT did brand Lauren as an ultimate partier in her famous "this time she went too far." statement

Or, what else could she have meant if it were not a reference to extreme partying?

VeryVeritas · Apr 30, 2014

kpeacock said:
Well, I'm just going to bulldoze along and continue profiling JW.

Just re-read this article, with this quote by HT:

http://www.lohud.com/article/201107...ghter-s-friends?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|News

They (LS & JW) were planning on hanging out when LS got home from the bar, according to HT.

JW can't reach LS, and he just... goes to bed? Or, he says he went to bed, but he actually went out looking for her, concerned because she wasn't answering texts? He knows she's out partying, and he suddenly stops getting responses from her.

If he did go to sleep, it makes sense that he would wake up worried and go hunting.

We do have accounts that LS was searching for her phone, trying to use an I-pod as a phone, etc. Maybe she was trying to get back in touch with JW. Maybe she did leave 5N, still wanting to party, and went in the direction of JW.

This account by HT that JW fell asleep because he could not reach LS, could be mostly verified by JW and LS's cell phone activity. It wouldn't prove that JW was asleep, but you could see if his tone were panicky/controlling vs. someone getting tired and bored.

IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #32

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