Sievers Sidebar #4

Frigga said:

I was repeating what either Anne Lisa or MAG said in their interview that Teresa didn't want to get rid of Mark (something to that effect) because she'd have to pay someone else $80,000.00. I would imagine the office manager of a medical preactice- also with a nursing license would make a bit more than average.

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I have no experience with office management but I imagine you're right, Frigga. The office manager at my OBGYN office showed me how to inject insulin when I was pregnant, because no one else was around that day and she is a nurse.

Does an office manager have to be a nurse? In the amounts of what people make, a nurse makes $25 an hour. That is hardly $80,000 a year. And he was an LPN which is a lot less of schooling than an RN.

I imagine there must have been a lot of tax benefits for them to have him hired at $80,000 a year.

It seems like they liked to do different tax angles. Even the girls had a nonprofit corporation, And they had seceral businesses.

human said:

Does an office manager have to be a nurse? In the amounts of what people make, a nurse makes $25 an hour. That is hardly $80,000 a year. And he was an LPN which is a lot less of schooling than an RN.

I imagine there must have been a lot of tax benefits for them to have him hired at $80,000 a year.

It seems like they liked to do different tax angles. Even the girls had a nonprofit corporation, And they had seceral businesses.

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A nurse only makes $25 an hour? Seems a bit low. My late sister was a respiratory therapist and I think she made at least that if not more when she retired a few years ago.

RANCH said:

A nurse only makes $25 an hour? Seems a bit low. My late sister was a respiratory therapist and I think she made at least that if not more when she retired a few years ago.

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I posted a link to Florida wages. They are really low. Right to work.

Here is the link. Don't know how accurate. I know in MN , nurses make far more.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/State=Florida/Hourly_Rate

human said:

I posted a link to Florida wages. They are really low. Right to work.

Here is the link. Don't know how accurate. I know in MN , nurses make far more.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/State=Florida/Hourly_Rate

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I'm not so sure how accurate that figure is after a quick google search. JMO

human said:

Does an office manager have to be a nurse? In the amounts of what people make, a nurse makes $25 an hour. That is hardly $80,000 a year. And he was an LPN which is a lot less of schooling than an RN.

I imagine there must have been a lot of tax benefits for them to have him hired at $80,000 a year.

It seems like they liked to do different tax angles. Even the girls had a nonprofit corporation, And they had seceral businesses.

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That part gets me, he may have a nurse license, but if he wasn't there during patient hours to BE a nurse... he being a nurse. :dunno:

FelicityLemon said:

That part gets me, he may have a nurse license, but if he wasn't there during patient hours to BE a nurse... he being a nurse. :dunno:

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In a family business does it matter if the family member deserves the pay being made if everyone agrees to the wage?

Also, if the person being paid is a spouse then the pay would be part of the household income and not just Mark's income. I'm not a tax expert so I may be seeing this wrong. JMO

human said:

Does an office manager have to be a nurse? In the amounts of what people make, a nurse makes $25 an hour. That is hardly $80,000 a year. And he was an LPN which is a lot less of schooling than an RN.

I imagine there must have been a lot of tax benefits for them to have him hired at $80,000 a year.

It seems like they liked to do different tax angles. Even the girls had a nonprofit corporation, And they had seceral businesses.

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So MS paid himself the $30,000 as an office manager plus $50,000 that an RN makes, for $80,000/year. Creative...but not very.

RANCH said:

In a family business does it matter if the family member deserves the pay being made if everyone agrees to the wage?

Also, if the person being paid is a spouse then the pay would be part of the household income and not just Mark's income. I'm not a tax expert so I may be seeing this wrong. JMO

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If you're asking a specific legal question, I'm not the one to answer. I'm speaking only to TS' practice and if her husband/murderer was really doing all he could to help the family income - but it was HER business - and my answer is obnoxiously NO. He screwed her into the ground financially. There's also a difference between income from a paycheck vs income from the business.

People can do whatever they want with their money as long as as you give what's due to the IRS. . If she wanted to pay him 200k she could (if she could), but, you're right there are tax ramifications either way and that's why they should have had a REAL tax professional taking care of it. He controlled ALL the money and pinched it out to her as needed.

The word "deserves" is a loaded word :thinking: I don't believe she had a choice, he obviously convinced her to do what he wanted. We already know he lied to her about so many things, I can easily believe he lied to her about tax issues of him getting overblown paycheck vs market rate and investing the difference in the running of the business. It's a circle.

I have no problem with people getting paid for the work they do, but his first interest was in himself and not in her business. Well, his interest in how well his wife did was only as far as it benefited him personally.

In many family businesses the families actually work together toward a common goal! Not MS. Yes, there are tax issues involved and many times, the spouse opts to take a lower paycheck if any in order to facilitate the success of the business. Mark's ego was more important than a healthy business model. He robbed Peter to pay NOT Paul and in the end, he screwed everyone including his children. Mortgaging and remortgaging multiple properties while still having to pay off student loan debt of $80,000, owing the IRS back taxes plus penalties, plus interest, plus a lifestyle beyond their means on top of that. She NEVER would have lived like that if she knew the full extent of is larceny.

"They" didn't make enough money for all the wheeling and dealing he was trying to do. He wasn't doing it right, lol. Not that it's ever right to do the wrong thing, but he even screwed that up.
He had a super sweet deal and they could have been a formidable couple had he an ounce of character.

Since he was the "office manager " and handled the books, he could have set his own pay scale but one good reason I can think of to pay a higher salary for a family member in the business is to have ability to sock away more 401k or IRA money. That may have been advice from their tax or financial advisor when they set up the business.

They would pay a lot more in payroll taxes with MS drawing such a high salary.

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As someone in the healthcare industry, LPNs for a doctor's office make less than $18 an hour in this are of FL and an RN makes no more the $23-25 an hour. Office manager salaries are between $35-45k a year. It is very rare for an office manager to be a nurse here unless it's an LPN. Most doctor offices don't hire RNs. RNs in a hospital earn between $20-23/hr., LPNs between $14-18. It's really sad what FL pays in all professions but more than 1/2 the hospitals in the state are owned by just 1-3 companies.

In. 2013, the average nurse in Mn made $75,000.

MS was an LPN, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less education than an RN. And there is a difference between an RN with a two year degree and one with a four year degree.
http://www.nursegroups.com/salaries/RN/MN

If MS was drawing 80k a year, TS must have been drawing more as the DR. in the business. (?)

They should not have had any financial problems with such a profitable business.

I would think the of 80,000 is not all wages. The expense of an employee includes pay, unemployment insurance on employee, social security taxes (I am not sure of correct name) workman's comp insurance, benefits including health insurance, 401k contributions and such.
I don't know what all the expenses there are to an employer, but when wages are talked about at my work our employer reminds us that each part-time employee cost them over 1,000 per month over and above wages.
My guess is the pay is much less than 80,000, TS was including the total cost of hiring an employee.

Do employees get all of those benefits in Florida?

ohreally said:

I would think the of 80,000 is not all wages. The expense of an employee includes pay, unemployment insurance on employee, social security taxes (I am not sure of correct name) workman's comp insurance, benefits including health insurance, 401k contributions and such.
I don't know what all the expenses there are to an employer, but when wages are talked about at my work our employer reminds us that each part-time employee cost them over 1,000 per month over and above wages.
My guess is the pay is much less than 80,000, TS was including the total cost of hiring an employee.

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When I did payroll for a variety of companies (California) whatever the employee was paid, a pretty accurate rule-of-thumb was to add another third on top of that to get the COST of the employee to the employer. It was useful to explain to employees - especially the young ones - who thought they should be paid more because they guestimated what the the small businesses took in. Example: in a home-based residential care facility for the elderly, caregivers knew what the owner charged per resident and of course, they know how many residents because they are the caregivers. It looked like the owner was rolling in money, but staff often are clueless about the cost of running a business.

I still think the $80,000 figure was told to TS by MS in an effort to prove to her how much work he did and what it would cost to replace himself. He lied. In this case, who gives a ratsass if he was a licensed nurse if he wasn't working in the office as a nurse. He couldn't be doing practical nursing at all if he was only at the office during the night when there were would be no patients. He could have been a licensed anything, but whoop. There are all kinds of people doing all kinds of jobs that have nothing to do with their PhDs

:rollseyes:

A creepy thought about MS having a license to nurse vulnerable people

Frigga said:

He made $80,000.00 per year as the office manager- he could afford to hire all of his work out. Pffft.

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Hmmm interesting 80K for office manager and how much did he skim off besides?

MS is no spring chicken. What exactly did he do with his work career? He was something to do with gambling, he had an LPN but did he actually ever work? What did he do in the years before he married TS? Were there other women? Children? Jobs?

Did he pull scams then too?

The Jarvis house still sits unattended.... grass growing, etc. My real estate friend said it looks like 'a foreclosure'. A shame for the neighbors.