PictureSnatcher
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Yea I don't believe that
HODGE-PODGE - LISK-related
- Thread starter CriminalMinds
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Yea I don't believe that
Mods, please place a permaban on my account. I do not take kindly to being painted with such broad strokes and am requesting a ban before I say something I regret.
Shame we all cant unify in our desire to see justice for these women. But I have hunted...have many friends and family that are avid hunters and I do not appreciate the implications being made here.
coffeeandacig
...
Well, that is my experience with hunting, and the people I know who continue to hunt. If you have a different experience with hunting, please share...
PictureSnatcher
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I'm just saying I don't believe that usually a hunter will throw up than do an homage like you said, that's all. That sounds like an exception to the rule. Personally I don't know why anyone would kill an animal unless they had to, I just can'y imagine hurting animals for fun, that is some dark ****.
Interestingly 3 of the Manorville bodies were found by duck hunters.
Inspct Gadgets theory was one of the best
kanzz
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Nah, don't take yourself out just yet. I read your posts and what you said aligns with what I know to be true of most people who hunt. I live in rural mid-America and have been around people who hunt and fish my entire life. My mother did both. Dad not so much.
I enjoy fishing nearly every day in good weather, but I'm too lazy to clean them so I catch and release. For a few years, I tried white-tail hunting, but I hate cold weather and found myself too hesitant to pull the trigger. I now see them on my land every day and the only shots I take are with my camera. However, if I ever get hungry, I still do have my rifle.
Most regular hunters are not people who vomit when they kill for food, nor are they people who are thrill-killers (I've personally never witnessed either of these behaviors), but they lie somewhere in between.. Just regular people with a healthy respect for what these animals are wrt food. Regular folks are not people like Ted Nugent. right?
Annnnnd here we go.
I dont kill animals for fun. You know, sometimes when I catch a fish, he still has a hook buried in him. Know what I do? I take it out if I can. I just made his day. Then I let him go.
Sometimes, I choose to eat that fish. When I do, I kill it. Quickly. Do I puke? No. Do I feel a tinge of pity? Yep. For a moment. But humans have been eating meat for a long, long time.
Do you eat meat? Own leather? Fur? Ever stop for a burger? Let me tell you something, most grocery store meat has it MUCH worse than anything I or my friends and family have ever killed for ourselves. I care a hell of a lot more about an animal's suffering than most producers of meat products, and that is true of every single hunter I know. Do I HAVE to kill to eat? Nope. But make no mistake, humans still kill to eat. You just dont have to witness it. Killing your own food gives you far more of an appreciation for that meat than buying it does. It tastes better, too. Far better. When you kill your own food you realize that every animal product you own was alive. I am likely far more cognizant of the suffering of animals than you are.
I am insulted by your post and am not going to be silent about being judged like that.
I requested a ban before I posted something like this. If that wasnt enough, surely this will be. But I'm not going to be characterized as dark because I have taken the lives of animals. If you know any hunters, you clearly know the wrong kind.
PictureSnatcher
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I quoted and responded to cigs post not yours. And I said nothing about anybody, so painting with broad strokes? I have no idea what you mean
PictureSnatcher
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This isn't the place for this discussion. I am personally disgusted by many things that are "normal" in our society. I don't see why a human life is worth any different than an animals. I understand why humans eat meat, but I think killing animals is violent and eating dead flesh is odd. I also think LSK cld b a hunter, who else would be comfortabler chopping up bodies in this day and age. Plus it sounds like he is familia with where people hunt
DQN
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Hunting is just part f the food chain, I don't hunt nor would i want to. But it has been going on for centuries.
That surprises me, considering the majority of hunters are not hunting because they absolutely need that meat or they will starve. So what's the motive, then, if not food or some form of a thrill?
I am genuinely curious. Not trying to be argumentative. I am not anti-hunting, though I have mixed feelings about it.
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I am not a mod, but I don't think what you wrote here was dark or out of place on this forum. I hope the mods do let this whole discussion stand -- I think for non-hunters trying to understand the issue, this is all valuable material that is possibly essential to understanding what might separate a Bittrolff from your average hunter. I'm sorry that you felt personally insulted by any of it, though.
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It is part of our history as a species, perhaps even part of our biology at this point.
I don't think that killing an animal is the same thing as killing a person. If someone said, "I'm either going to kill this human being or a pig, your choice," I'd say take the pig every time.
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And I have no issue with respectful disagreement. We can learn from our difference of opinion. That's what makes discussion awesome. When both parties go into it deciding to respect each other and learn.
I can assure you, most hunters that I know are absolutely nothing like him. I know of nobody like him, in fact. The ability and willingness to kill an animal has no bearing on the ability to kill a human. Would I ever kill a human? Yes. Put in an extreme situation, I would. To protect my family or another innocent, hands down I would use lethal force if I felt I had no other choice. And I have the full capability to do so. I'll come right out and say that I own a firearm that I have never used before and its sole purpose if ever used would be to kill another human being. I do not, nor do I ever plan to, hunt for birds or small game that would call for the use of a shotgun. Yet I own one and its sole purpose is home defense. I pray that I never have to use it. I'm simply a realist and I have a family here to protect, so if one day we ever had an intruder, I take precautions that its the intruder that is harmed and not my precious family. I dont think I would do very well after an incident like that. I would probably feel guilty forever. I'd take that guilt, though, over feeling guilty and heartbroken and enraged were something to ever happen to one of my kids or to my wife.
As far as hunting - why do we do it? Keep in mind, I do not do it often. It has been years since I have. It is time consuming, often tedious, and requires the ability to haul an animal and get it processed, as well as freezer space to preserve the meat. Would I do it again? Sure. If I had the time. I do have many close friends and family that hunt every single year.
It brings us back to nature to a degree. It gives us an appreciation for NOT having to do it anymore. It makes us aware of the cycle of life. It's a challenge to overcome. And it results in some really great, healthy meat. The kill is not the highlight. The animal's death is necessary. It does bring out a touch of emotion, but for most that emotion is not a savage, bloodthirsty joy. It is a respect for nature. Maybe a little sorrow. A satisfaction at procuring a trophy and food. Like at the end of a hard day's productive work, you feel that you've done something not easy, but good for you and your family.
PictureSnatcher
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True, unless maybe it was my pet pig Porky who I loved, I would say save the human. But isn't that because we are humans? I mean what is the inherent difference between a human and animal? Isn't it only our egotistical self-importance as a species?
I wasn't starting an argument to attack hunters, my original point was exactly what you said above to coffee.
coffeeandacig
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Actually it is for food. A growing number of people who live in rural areas are living on or below the poverty line. It is becoming a necessity to hunt for what will sustain them, since they can't afford the grocery store.
For hunters without dire needs, it is also about food. However, much of it is deep rooted in tradition. Father teaches son, son teaches daughter, etc. Just like a father teaches a daughter how to catch a fish, gut it and prepare it for a meal. Family gathers around, and enjoys a fish dinner. Thrill? Nope, it is more about camaraderie, share experiences, tradition, family and a good meal that took time and knowledge to prepare.
I don't hunt personally, but I do enjoy fishing. I came across the information below and thought I would share:
The game laws (NOTE there are laws...) were enacted a hundred plus years agomost notably the Lacey Act (1900), which forbade interstate commerce in wildlife. The Act spelled the death knell for market hunting and, with bag limits and closed seasons, the recovery of both game and non-game species began. Although many hunters initially resisted these constraints on their hunting, the resultsthe recovery of gamewere clear and welcomed.
Along with recovering game populations, added emphasis on hunter safety and, ultimately, formal training in hunter safety as a condition for being issued a hunting license dramatically reduced hunting accidents and increased public acceptance of hunting.
Recent surveys have revealed a slight up-tick in the sale of hunting licenses largely attributed to what Tovar Cerulli and others have called adult onset hunters. These hunters, like Tovar himself, are being drawn to hunting out of a desire to take charge of their food. A number of recent cultural shifts have fueled this interest in hunting: growing discomfort with industrial farming and food safety (growth hormones, antibiotics); the locavore and organic farm movement; and a desire to take a direct hand in putting food on the table. No doubt there are many more consumers who recoil at food that does not come wrapped in plastic film than there are people who prefer to shoot or catch at least a portion of their annual consumption of meat and fish.
Finally, another personal reason that draws men and women to hunting is the need to acknowledge that we are, after all, also animals with a long history of predation, a history long enough to have been encoded in our genes. To be sure, our capacity to create cultures with rituals, norms, and ethical restraints makes us distinct from the other creatures with whom we share the planet, but to deny that part of us that is wild is, as Florence Shepard insists, to deny what it is to be fully human.
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maddalena1
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Think of a Lakota buffalo hunt. Gratitude and respect given to the Buffalo for giving it's life to feed the people. However, i hear about some idiot hunters that come in from out of state who are clueless and should not be hunting. Hunting, in my opinion, is only okay if you eat and utilize as much as you can of the animal.
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maddalena1
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I was on the road kill list a few years back and got a deer that way and it filled our freezer and shared with others for $200 fee to process. No waste.
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No. Just no. Your statement on hunters are ridiculous. I hunt. The thrill comes from being out in he woods for hours straight for days. Then you see an animal and have a shot THAT is the the thrill. It is not killing it. I don't enjoy it, I fact I don't even look in it's face. But it is humane. For those who hunt for subsistence there is not some creepy hard on under those camo Pants because you're about to take a life. I speak for those who eat what they hunt. My freezer is full of game meat. I can not speak of psychopaths. I'm sure there's much deeper things going on.
PictureSnatcher
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Potato,
What makes it humane? Is it humane to that animals kids haha
What makes it humane? Is it humane to that animals kids haha