Did EJ Use a Broker/Middle Man?

Did EJ Use a Broker or Middle Man?

  • Yes, I think she used a broker, middle man, agency, service, etc.

    Votes: 36 63.2%

  • No, I think she gave or sold Gabe direct to the couple who was to keep him

    Votes: 8 14.0%

  • Neither of the above - I don't think she gave away or sold Gabe

    Votes: 13 22.8%
  • Total voters
    57
  • Poll closed .

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BeanE

BeanE

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This poll is to get a gauge on which way people are thinking is more likely that Elizabeth would have given away or sold Gabe, by using a broker or 'middle man', or by giving/selling direct to the couple that was to keep him.

Included in broker/middle man would be an agency or service, or an individual.
 
BeanE said:
This poll is to get a gauge on which way people are thinking is more likely that Elizabeth would have given away or sold Gabe, by using a broker or 'middle man', or by giving/selling direct to the couple that was to keep him.

Included in broker/middle man would be an agency or service, or an individual.
Click to expand...

He could also be an agent for a group or an underground of some sort. and for what it's worth, I think TS knows who it is or at least how to contact the middle man.
 
FWIW, I think TS knows who/which agency put EJ in touch with the broker...great poll idea btw.
 
kissdegirl said:
FWIW, I think TS knows who/which agency put EJ in touch with the broker...great poll idea btw.
Click to expand...

Thanks, kiss. I just can't believe her story that a couple came up to her in the park, but I wasn't sure how others were thinking, so thought I'd do a poll on it.

Anybody and everybody is welcome to create a poll. Just create a new thread, type up your post explaining what your poll is about, then scroll down to the bottom and check the Poll checkbox. Also put the number of answers you want in your poll.

Click submit, and you'll be taken to a new screen where you put in your poll question and all your answers. 30 days is good to use for the time limit to be sure you allow time for a good number of people to respond.

If you mess up, don't worry! It took me several times to get it when I first tried it. You can always delete and create a new one if you don't like how it comes out. PM me any time if you need any help!

Thanks,
BeanE
 
Well, I voted no because I think she went with "plan B". But, as I think about it, I think there was a middle man. My whole feeling on this is that TS got her familiar with the "underground". She introduced EJ to the correct people. IMO, EJ ended up going off on her own, but somehow/someway, there was another person involved in connecting EJ with the "adoptive" parents.
 
I personally feel like it was more than one middle man;

I do believe she met the couple in the park; but they weren't random.

I believe that they were notified by TS about how they wanted to adopt Gabriel, maybe to buy some time; They decided to sell Gabriel to another couple, with insurance payments all that. But when Logan contacted and attempted to go about through things legally it all fell apart. Resulting in a panic attempt to cover things up.

I strongly belive there is a religious connectiong somehow; I don't think it's a coincidence that the church TPS attends has a program for single mothers, encourages adoptions and also has a program that reinstates traffiking victims back into society <Links into the undergroung > . It just seems like an organization with the money and the means.

IMHO
 
JMO....I believe EJ has given him to someone she knows or TS knows. The "Adoptive Parent and Papers" thing I think is just a cloud of smoke and a wild goose chase....at least, I hope I'm right!
 
YellowSubmarine said:
Well, I voted no because I think she went with "plan B". But, as I think about it, I think there was a middle man. My whole feeling on this is that TS got her familiar with the "underground". She introduced EJ to the correct people. IMO, EJ ended up going off on her own, but somehow/someway, there was another person involved in connecting EJ with the "adoptive" parents.
Click to expand...

I think there is a middle man as well but I don't think TS knows who it is. I think one of TS's recommended "underground" connections set EJ up with the middle man. I agree, Tammi's plan failed and EJ went on to plan B. I still can't shake Janet's name when thinking of who could of recommended the middle man to EJ. Her history and knowledge supports it. I know they searched her house already but all it would take is a phone call and then she's out of it.
 
TXHOPE said:
I think there is a middle man as well but I don't think TS knows who it is. I think one of TS's recommended "underground" connections set EJ up with the middle man. I agree, Tammi's plan failed and EJ went on to plan B. I still can't shake Janet's name when thinking of who could of recommended the middle man to EJ. Her history and knowledge supports it. I know they searched her house already but all it would take is a phone call and then she's out of it.
Click to expand...

BBM --

Yes, exactly.

It just seems fishy to me that TS put EJ in contact with JM and suddenly EJ goes out on her own and *poof* Gabe is gone. Don't get me wrong, I think TS definitely has some involvement, but these people are "professionals". There is a brightly dotted line flowing between TS, JM and the "adoptive" parents.
 
I think TS sent EJ to SA. IMO, the plan was to meet this middle man, he would take care of the paperwork, EJ would sign the paper to relinquish her parental rights, claiming unknown father.

Logan refused to be an unknown father and things got sticky, so TS called it off, said to come back.

EJ had the ball rolling and wasn't gonna stop, she told the middle man to find a new couple. He had plenty waiting, EJ said, where there is a will there is a way.

So yes, I believe there was a middle man.
 
Her grandfather said she could go on Craigslist and find an adoptive family in 5 minutes. I think that she found a couple on her own (I am sure it wouldn't be hard to throw a rock and hit 5 people who would take a beautiful baby). I really think if TPS had sent her to meet a broker in San Antonio it would have come out in the computer or phone record search.
 
Litlred said:
I believe it is in "things that make you go hmmmm"

I reported this to the lost group. I'm assume they forward it to the LE? I will have to check my e-mails but this may have been before JJ started working on the the case. I should probably send it to him as well and the family.
Click to expand...

Hi! There is some confusion on where to send what...someone asked on the FB group for Gabriel and LM's aunt Kelli said the following:

The new PI: bob@diamondbackinvestigators.com
FBI: hector.morales@ic.fbi.gov
JJ: theinvestigators@hotmail.com

Great find! I hope you send it to all these guys.
 
This is off-topic for this thread, however, it's critical for Gabe's well-being.

For any missing child, tips should always be sent to the official LE phone number or email address that LE specifies. That is the fastest and surest way to get help to the child in danger, and is what is in the child's best interests.

San Antonio police department is the LE handling Gabe's case. They've arranged a tipline and email address with NCMEC. NCMEC sends the tips to SAPD. When I recently called in a small, quick tip to NCMEC, they transferred me over directly to SAPD.

1-800-THE-LOST is the phone number
hotline@ncmec.org is the email address

Case Number: NCMC1137894, Gabriel Scott Johnson, endangered missing

A few days ago, I told Sandy that I continue to get messages about tip confusion. I told Sandy that I tell people the above. She replied that is what she wants me to continue to tell people here at WS.

Sandy said that the family would appreciate if tips are also sent to the family. She said to keep posting the oursweetgabriel@yahoo.com email address for family tips here at WS, however, I feel obligated to let you know that she also said she is unsure how well that email address is monitored any more. She said she would let me know as soon as the family decides collectively what family tip email address they want to use.

So, in the meantime, please be sure to send your tips to LE, and I would say for sending them also to additional people and organizations, that is going to have to be your personal choice which email addresses to use.

I hope the family gets one, central, easy-to-remember email address set up soon, where all tips for family and the multiple P.I.s working on Gabe's case can be sent.

For further discussion of tips, please see this thread:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94603"]Sleuthers & Tips Needed! - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Thanks!
BeanE
 
I feel confident that a middle man (woman) was involved and think it's likely there was a team effort engaged in "getting the job done." My instincts tell me that TS was the primary and did the legwork on EJ's end, JM dit the legwork on the adoption group end and provided TS the contacts for EJ to use. Even if I thought that EJ could mastermind an operation that is seemingly this complex, I see no way for an out-of work, destitute young woman who has to sell personal belongings and borrow cars to have funded it (travel, hotels, GPSs, extra cellphones. bustickets, gas, food babysitters, new forged identity documentation, the list just goes on and on). Plus, the 5-6 day delay in SA before executing the plan seems like strong support for the idea that there was a period of time spent ironing out all the details and getting all the parties on the same page with the particulars.--Also explains a possible reason for EJs concern about being confronted at her hotel door and asking the babysitter not to let anyone near G.

The support cast she was seen with, from the HG (whether broker, adoption agency strong arm, transportation, personal protection, couple's representative or translator) and the couple lend weight to the idea that this was an arranged hand-off. I think EJ was desparate enough that she would have acted hastily and deviated from the plan much sooner if somone wasn't providing her step by step directions all along the way. Personally, I think it wouldn't take more than a 5 minute scratch into the computers of TS or JM to explain most of the story. Unfortunately, if I am correct, I believe that any computers they might have used for handling illegal trades are locked away somewhere far from LE eyes (probably so is EJs) and any identifying user information is most likely untraceable even if the computers are located. All of them, IMO are smart enough to know how to avoid detection along the obvious routes.

At the end of her rope (EJ) , someone cooler and calmer and more calculating had to have been in charge of making the arrangements!!
 
chell said:
I feel confident that a middle man (woman) was involved and think it's likely there was a team effort engaged in "getting the job done." My instincts tell me that TS was the primary and did the legwork on EJ's end, JM dit the legwork on the adoption group end and provided TS the contacts for EJ to use. Even if I thought that EJ could mastermind an operation that is seemingly this complex, I see no way for an out-of work, destitute young woman who has to sell personal belongings and borrow cars to have funded it (travel, hotels, GPSs, extra cellphones. bustickets, gas, food babysitters, new forged identity documentation, the list just goes on and on). Plus, the 5-6 day delay in SA before executing the plan seems like strong support for the idea that there was a period of time spent ironing out all the details and getting all the parties on the same page with the particulars.--Also explains a possible reason for EJs concern about being confronted at her hotel door and asking the babysitter not to let anyone near G.

The support cast she was seen with, from the HG (whether broker, adoption agency strong arm, transportation, personal protection, couple's representative or translator) and the couple lend weight to the idea that this was an arranged hand-off. I think EJ was desparate enough that she would have acted hastily and deviated from the plan much sooner if somone wasn't providing her step by step directions all along the way. Personally, I think it wouldn't take more than a 5 minute scratch into the computers of TS or JM to explain most of the story. Unfortunately, if I am correct, I believe that any computers they might have used for handling illegal trades are locked away somewhere far from LE eyes (probably so is EJs) and any identifying user information is most likely untraceable even if the computers are located. All of them, IMO are smart enough to know how to avoid detection along the obvious routes.

At the end of her rope (EJ) , someone cooler and calmer and more calculating had to have been in charge of making the arrangements!!
Click to expand...


I agree with all of the above, but I would like to add that Tammi's smugness and smirks, and her intentionally using the media to put false information (according to LE) out there to impede the investigation, is strong circumstancial evidence that she was involved in the planning of Gabriel's adoption or hiding him for the Smiths. It is also possible that hiding him was her intention but she may have since told whoever to place him with someone else permanently, because things have not gone as she planned in her own life!
 
Ok, my crazy opioin is, we need to back up and punt...think inside the head of a 23 year old girl....I'm so not into the illegial adoption thing....and she would not either, I don't believe...too much whatever in her book....My belief is she left GB with someone she either feels safe with or knows some one whom she has faith in that he is safe...and could have some contact with if need be....JMO
 
kappy50 said:
Ok, my crazy opioin is, we need to back up and punt...think inside the head of a 23 year old girl....I'm so not into the illegial adoption thing....and she would not either, I don't believe...too much whatever in her book....My belief is she left GB with someone she either feels safe with or knows some one whom she has faith in that he is safe...and could have some contact with if need be....JMO
Click to expand...

I would think, in this situation, it would be someone from her past. Either her's or her brother's, if he was separated from her in the foster system. I feel we know too little about her past. Does anyone have the grandmother's name in MA? I caught a name on a news report, but I have never seen it here. Do we know if she had other siblings? Who raised them if there were? I like this idea of backing the truck up Kappy. Maybe we need a new thread to let the ideas flow.
http://www.kpho.com/video/22243067/index.html
 
I don't have the link to information about the phone call TS said EJ made to her and that EJ was accusing Tammi of setting things up or that it was her idea. We haven't talked much about it, but that is another reason why I think TS was involved. What would be the reason TS would put that information out publicly if it wasn't for deflecting or damage control? I don't think LE said anything about the accusation.
 
CathyinTexas said:
I don't have the link to information about the phone call TS said EJ made to her and that EJ was accusing Tammi of setting things up or that it was her idea. We haven't talked much about it, but that is another reason why I think TS was involved. What would be the reason TS would put that information out publicly if it wasn't for deflecting or damage control? I don't think LE said anything about the accusation.
Click to expand...

Well, LE has said they don't think Tammi was involved in what happened to Gabe, or that Tammi has any knowledge of his whereabouts. See the posts near the end of the LE Statements threads.
 
BeanE said:
Well, LE has said they don't think Tammi was involved in what happened to Gabe, or that Tammi has any knowledge of his whereabouts. See the posts near the end of the LE Statements threads.
Click to expand...
Didn't TPS arrest documents say that it was believed she helped EJ while she was in SA?
That kind of conflicts with LE stating they don't believe she was involved or knows where Gabe is, doesn't it?
Could it be that they needed to get public pressure off of TPS as it could put Gabe in danger or inhibit the investigation?

I'm off to read the arrest document again to verify that it said that.

ETA: OK, I've re-read the documents and I guess her helping Elizabeth after she left is mostly to do with trying to change jurisdictions, and putting her in touch with people for legal advice.
 
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