Issues with Specific Thread Content

maybe the trial thread? Since there is no trial at this point maybe that thread is where we should discuss strategies of defense and prosecution? I am unsure and waiting for the other members to set the tone, then I will follow where that leads.

I always hate when cases split into separate threads...(only exception being JonBenet Ramsey...)
I give up and abandon all hope of ever catching up.


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tlcya said:

there is no thread where this comment would not be considered off topic so I will put it here:

I am very fact oriented. Sometimes I speculate but I try very hard to label those posts that are sheer speculation. Otherwise I tend to be a "helper" type personality, it is just my nature. I sometimes will chime in when I see what I perceive to be misinformation or inaccurate information being discussed. but it is NEVER with the intent of shaming, belittling or shutting down other posters from airing their views.

So if it ever has felt like that to someone I sincerely apologize because that is never ever ever my intent.

With each case that gets national attention Websleuths ends up getting a lot of new members who found the site and joined due to that particular case. I try to remember what it was like to be new and unsure of how to get arround perform functions like multi quote or link attachments etc. because I was that girl at one time.

I also am a very prolific poster. I have tons of thoughts, theories and opinions. To our newer members, please do not ever mistake my vocalness as putting you down or trying to shut you down. that is never my intention. I am always thrilled when we get new members and new thoughts, experiences, ideas and skills to this site. I am very attached to Websleuths. And I want it to grow and evolve because that is how things keep from getting stagnant.

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Lol, great minds think alike I was busy writing another post when yours popped up.

I'm going to use it as a jumping off point since you're expressing exactly the traits I was describing. :loveyou:

Here goes:

And while I'm here I'll go off-topic for a minute. One of the reasons I decided to join WS is that the level of moderation creates an atmosphere of safety and consideration. Other sites just let 'er rip and bashing others is not only tolerated but encouraged in some cases.

I've got a pretty thick skin but some of the comments and posts I see on the Internet just makes my blood boil. I love that WS admin and mods are sensitive to the emotional needs of WS members. As are the members here. I also love the responses I read from fellow members when someone posts a personal story of abuse.

My kids and my friends jokingly call our house “Sanctuary” - a place where everything is okay and no one is ever derided for being who they are. WebSleuths is one of the few online sites that follows the same philosophy.

tlcya said:

there is no thread where this comment would not be considered off topic so I will put it here:

I am very fact oriented. Sometimes I speculate but I try very hard to label those posts that are sheer speculation. Otherwise I tend to be a "helper" type personality, it is just my nature. I sometimes will chime in when I see what I perceive to be misinformation or inaccurate information being discussed. but it is NEVER with the intent of shaming, belittling or shutting down other posters from airing their views.

So if it ever has felt like that to someone I sincerely apologize because that is never ever ever my intent.

With each case that gets national attention Websleuths ends up getting a lot of new members who found the site and joined due to that particular case. I try to remember what it was like to be new and unsure of how to get arround perform functions like multi quote or link attachments etc. because I was that girl at one time.

I also am a very prolific poster. I have tons of thoughts, theories and opinions. To our newer members, please do not ever mistake my vocalness as putting you down or trying to shut you down. that is never my intention. I am always thrilled when we get new members and new thoughts, experiences, ideas and skills to this site. I am very attached to Websleuths. And I want it to grow and evolve because that is how things keep from getting stagnant.

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I'm also very fact oriented, but I'm also obsessed with fairness. I try not to make any decisions until I feel like I've looked at all sides of the issue, all possible consequences, and whatever else is relevant to it (I'm sure waitresses HATE me!) I can't imagine anyone being offended by your posts. One of the things I especially remember from when I first stated: the responses several members gave to almost every post I wrote made me sometimes feel like the place was filled with waitresses - but you were one of the people who was friendly and talked me into staying a while longer (not trying to put the blame on you!) It's part of the reason that I find it important (to me) for everybody to feel comfortable posting their opinions and ideas.

hopingicanhelp said:

Yes, yes, and YES! I was just in a discussion today that was making me think defense theories -- where does THAT go???

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You could start a thread for defense theories. I'd love to read it, but can't promise I won't post in it too.

magnolia said:

I think the theories get lost in all the replies and debating. Some people don't have time to wade through a whole page of reply posts in order to read the next theory. That said, I think an alternate theory thread with no discussion would be nice. As someone else posted, you can either thank the post or scroll on by.

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However, and I say this respectfully, not ALL alternate theories are permitted, making the thread a little useless.

A GD thread reinstatement would be an enormous boon to those of us waiting for developments. I hope the mods will consider it!

Confusion said:

That's fine for those with time, health and decent eyesight, but some of us are missing one or more of those things. When the General Discussion was open, I always tried to read/skim all posts to make sure I didn't miss something important. Every time I took a break, I'd come back to 100s of posts, and by the time I'd catch up, I needed another break. I did occasionally post something before I had finished reading the last 5-10 pages, but I don't like doing it. I have the time to read them all, but I'm usually not physically able to. There are others here who have limited time, families (especially those with full-time jobs and small children), limited internet access, etc. who also have a hard time keeping up with threads that move as quickly as the GD one does. It gets a bit frustrating at times when you spend a few hours reading and 99% of the posts say almost the same thing with words changed a bit.

As you said, people just want to have their opinion. MOO

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I understand what you are saying :blowkiss: but in the General Discussion thread people can talk/discuss a bit more freely. I like the individual threads, too, and they may suit others that don't have a lot of time to read and want to focus on one topic.

EvilSoup said:

However, and I say this respectfully, not ALL alternate theories are permitted, making the thread a little useless.

A GD thread reinstatement would be an enormous boon to those of us waiting for developments. I hope the mods will consider it!

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I don't understand. What alternate theories are not permitted ????? I believe that thread was set up for all theories.

I've not seen a GD thread return in my time here so I'd get over it if you can. jmo Good reasons though on why to keep it, but I've read the same reasons over a few years now & agree thread specific works better, it demands facts and not just "my gut told me because his eyes were beady" etc.... I think it's more important to get the truth of how & why Cooper was left in his father's SUV/Car and why so many voice their hatred for the parents if the topic is left on a GD thread. jmo

One of the problems for me with the alternate theories thread is that there is no question who did it ('it' being leaving Cooper in the car such that he died), leaving only the question as to whether he did it:

1. on purpose (If so, why? So he could be child-free? Because he and LH were talking divorce and he didn't want to pay child support? In concert with LH?) or
2. accidentally, (in which case what could have made him forget--his onerous work schedule at Home Depot, his sexting activities, the upcoming SEC football schedule?)

And of course, once you've answered that question you can argue about what punishment, if any is appropriate. But none of that seems to me to be really discussing an alternate 'theory,' per se, not like the JonBenet Ramsey case where there are camps firmly on the various sides of WHO actually killed her, e.g. one or more of the Ramseys, an acquaintance, a stranger/intruder, etc.

Anyway, maybe a way to clarify the topic and keep those who feel that would be to title the thread something about accidental, not intentional and let people talk about that without rebuttal. Or maybe I am misunderstanding what people are hoping to discuss as an alternate theory--are there thoughts that someone else was responsible, not RH? Now, THAT is a theory I would really like to hear, although I don't think I would be able to refrain from responding, to be perfectly honest! :abduction:

P.S. As most are probably aware, I am of the opinion that he had at least some level of intent but even if he didn't he was so criminally negligent that he deserves a harsh penalty anyway. I don't think you get a 'pass' for killing your child accidentally because you are half-deaf in one ear, distracted by your onerous work schedule or the the urgent need to broadcast your junk, etc. So I'm not necessarily arguing the 'he MEANT to do it, off with his head!' position, more like 'he KILLED HIS CHILD by at the minimum gross negligence and he should face heavy consequences!' position, just to be clear.

P.P.S. You could not pay me enough to be a WS admin/moderator: I have neither the patience of a saint or the wisdom of Solomon and I reckon I'm far too old and ornery at this point to acquire either one! :floorlaugh: I do appreciate all they do, though.

Since we have the theory thread, can we make it so the rest of the threads just contain factual information? IMO, the speculation is out of control and it makes it impossible to keep up with the facts of the case. Should there be a speculation thread?

CHERIE.T said:

I respectfully and simply ask for the general discussion thread back with MAYBE stricter warnings about --- baiting, snark, rudeness and a warning for those arguing with posters for no specific reason except to argue.

PULEASEEEEE SALEM and other mods and admin? :winkkiss::crush::cheer::heartluv::cupcake::giggle:

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That's not too much to ask for.

I must be in the minority, I love the breakout threads. I like the general discussion thread early in an investigation. When things start branching out and we are all talking about ten different scenarios and I step away from my computer to sleep at night, I can come back and find many, many, many posts in a GD thread that I have to read in order to keep updated on this case. Sometimes I spend 2 hours just updating myself every morning.

With the new threads for each discussion, it's so much easier to see what's new on that topic or what needs to be reported.

In the GD thread I found many times someone would post something, they'd discuss it, then the next day someone would say, "haven't read anything, have you guys seen this", and then there will be ANOTHER round of discussions. In the meantime, new developments are occuring and I'd have to go back in the GD thread to where I logged out for a few minutes/hours.

At least now I can keep track of this case. Thank you for the breakouts, I wish they did it early on in the Malaysia plane thread, I couldn't take it anymore in that GD thread, nothing was broken out and I could never find anything, it was going way too fast for just one thread.

SStarr33 said:

Since we have the theory thread, can we make it so the rest of the threads just contain factual information? IMO, the speculation is out of control and it makes it impossible to keep up with the facts of the case. Should there be a speculation thread?

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But the "alternative theory" thread is being suggested to be only for those who are defending RH. Do you mean that all the other threads can have no speculation that is anti-RH? Maybe I misunderstand.

If that were to be the case...then the new "rule" would be that the only speculation allowed would be speculation that was favorable....and this Board would essentially be shut down to present anything unfavorable.

I can see banning anything but favorable comments in one thread...but on the WHOLE entire Cooper Harris board? One thread all positive speculation...then...all the rest...FACTS only.

Can no one speak for Cooper? Can the majority not speculate at all anymore?

I hope I am misunderstanding this....still waking up so it is possible.

SStarr33 said:

Since we have the theory thread, can we make it so the rest of the threads just contain factual information? IMO, the speculation is out of control and it makes it impossible to keep up with the facts of the case. Should there be a speculation thread?

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But the "alternative theory" thread is being suggested to be only for those who are defending RH. A safe place to defend RH without any contradiction. Do you mean that all the other threads can have no speculation that is anti-RH? Maybe I misunderstand.

If that were to be the case...then the new "rule" would be that the only speculation allowed would be speculation that was favorable....and this Board would essentially be shut down to present anything unfavorable. Nor to speculate on RH's motive. Or to speculate on how this was planned etc.

This is the speculation that is going on in the case behind the scenes. Why, on Websleuths, would that speculation be shut down? Essentially, this would create a "tragic accident theories only" situation.

I can see banning anything but favorable comments in one thread...but on the WHOLE entire Cooper Harris board? One thread all positive speculation...then...all the rest...FACTS only?

Can no one speak for Cooper? Can the majority not speculate at all anymore? We can only sleuth things that make RH look sympathetic?

I hope I am misunderstanding this....still waking up so it is possible.

Edited to add...why don't the posters who just want to keep up with the facts...read the media thread. Those are the only "facts" we are allowed to post. Anything else is opinion.

Go there. Get the news and your facts. Then choose what you want to scroll through after that. Very simple solution.

stmarysmead said:

But the "alternative theory" thread is being suggested to be only for those who are defending RH. Do you mean that all the other threads can have no speculation that is anti-RH? Maybe I misunderstand.

If that were to be the case...then the new "rule" would be that the only speculation allowed would be speculation that was favorable....and this Board would essentially be shut down to present anything unfavorable.

I can see banning anything but favorable comments in one thread...but on the WHOLE entire Cooper Harris board? One thread all positive speculation...then...all the rest...FACTS only.

Can no one speak for Cooper? Can the majority not speculate at all anymore?

I hope I am misunderstanding this....still waking up so it is possible.

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I haven't seen anyone defending him, and I doubt anyone other than his mother, LH and his attorney will. There also was nothing about not allowing anything other than positive speculation in SStarr33's suggestion - just nothing but facts in all threads other than a speculation one (I do think that one would stop almost all discussion). What I said in the Alternate Theories thread (or at least what it was meant to mean) was that I was trying to get away from the page after page of posts supporting the theory that RH did it on purpose because he's evil, greedy, mentally ill, a pervert, a (fill in the blank with some insulting name or description), hates his wife and kid, or some combination; I didn't mean that those people who believe that couldn't post, but I'd prefer that the name calling and insults be left out - along with constant arguing and repeating the same comments over and over. I know it's not my place to say how others should post, but I'd rather debate issues than fight about them. Where I come from, it's no longer debating once anger, insults and personal comments start appearing (which the mods are usually pretty quick to remove.)

MOO

Confusion said:

I haven't seen anyone defending him, and I doubt anyone other than his mother, LH and his attorney will. There also was nothing about not allowing anything other than positive speculation in SStarr33's suggestion - just nothing but facts in all threads other than a speculation one (I do think that one would stop almost all discussion). What I said in the Alternate Theories thread (or at least what it was meant to mean) was that I was trying to get away from the page after page of posts supporting the theory that RH did it on purpose because he's evil, greedy, mentally ill, a pervert, a (fill in the blank with some insulting name or description), hates his wife and kid, or some combination; I didn't mean that those people who believe that couldn't post, but I'd prefer that the name calling and insults be left out - along with constant arguing and repeating the same comments over and over. I know it's not my place to say how others should post, but I'd rather debate issues than fight about them. Where I come from, it's no longer debating once anger, insults and personal comments start appearing (which the mods are usually pretty quick to remove.)

MOO

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Unfortunately, the motive for murder, more than often has to do with someone being...as you put it...
"evil, greedy, mentally ill, a pervert, hates his wife and kid, etc." Any speculation on motive will usually be grounded in one of those theories. So, if those kind of posts are "banned"....there can be no free discussion of motive. Without intending to, it limits discussion very severely.

There is also a tremendous deep seated repulsion and anger surrounding this case. The way this defenseless child died...the comment by RH himself that Little Cooper was the one who reached up out of that too small and too tight car seat...to kiss his Daddy...moments before that Daddy "forgot him"...just rip me up. I will confess to having to rewrite many posts several times...because they are just way too angry. But it seeps in.

Honestly, considering the circumstances here, I don't know how you can "ban" people from feeling this case so intensely. The child's death was horrific.

Any discussion of motive will naturally bring out a great deal of feeling.

I do understand how some posters may want to avoid the singer and emotion. But I think, on a Board like this, the best we can do...is , on one side try to reign our feelings in a bit. On the other, try to understand, put in ignore, or scroll through.

Maybe there could be a "newest developments" thread with no discussion, for those who just want to keep up. A thread..."Tragic Accident Believers only" for those who believe that way. And then just lots more understanding for each other elsewhere.

stmarysmead said:

But the "alternative theory" thread is being suggested to be only for those who are defending RH. Do you mean that all the other threads can have no speculation that is anti-RH? Maybe I misunderstand.

If that were to be the case...then the new "rule" would be that the only speculation allowed would be speculation that was favorable....and this Board would essentially be shut down to present anything unfavorable.

I can see banning anything but favorable comments in one thread...but on the WHOLE entire Cooper Harris board? One thread all positive speculation...then...all the rest...FACTS only.

Can no one speak for Cooper? Can the majority not speculate at all anymore?

I hope I am misunderstanding this....still waking up so it is possible.

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It's my understanding the theory thread was created for everyone. It is not a defense thread. You can have the opinion he is guilty, and still have an alternate theory.That is,if you are willing to share it on the thread. I don't believe every theory on that thread is in defense of the defendant. They just believe it may have happened another way.

I totally understand where SStar is coming from. Many people come to WS to learn the facts of a case. The over the top speculation makes it very difficult for people to tell fact from fiction. The following is what I call over the top speculation not based on any facts. "Sally had a lover. John was not the biological father. He wanted the child out of the way". This type of speculation needs it's own thread.

I have to tell you, the majority vs. minority mindset is making me and I'm sure other people uncomfortable.

IMO

stmarysmead said:

Unfortunately, the motive for murder, more than often has to do with someone being...as you put it...
"evil, greedy, mentally ill, a pervert, hates his wife and kid, etc." Any speculation on motive will usually be grounded in one of those theories. So, if those kind of posts are "banned"....there can be no free discussion of motive. Without intending to, it limits discussion very severely.

There is also a tremendous deep seated repulsion and anger surrounding this case. The way this defenseless child died...the comment by RH himself that Little Cooper was the one who reached up out of that too small and too tight car seat...to kiss his Daddy...moments before that Daddy "forgot him"...just rip me up. I will confess to having to rewrite many posts several times...because they are just way too angry. But it seeps in.

Honestly, considering the circumstances here, I don't know how you can "ban" people from feeling this case so intensely. The child's death was horrific.

Any discussion of motive will naturally bring out a great deal of feeling.

I do understand how some posters may want to avoid the singer and emotion. But I think, on a Board like this, the best we can do...is , on one side try to reign our feelings in a bit. On the other, try to understand, put in ignore, or scroll through.

Maybe there could be a "newest developments" thread with no discussion, for those who just want to keep up. A thread..."Tragic Accident Believers only" for those who believe that way. And then just lots more understanding for each other elsewhere.

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ITA. Well said! The newest developments thread sounds like a good idea - or perhaps if that's all some people want to read, they could just go to the media thread and see what is new.

magnolia said:

It's my understanding the theory thread was created for everyone. It is not a defense thread. You can have the opinion he is guilty, and still have an alternate theory.That is,if you are willing to share it on the thread. I don't believe every theory on that thread is in defense of the defendant. They just believe it may have happened another way.

I totally understand where SStar is coming from. Many people come to WS to learn the facts of a case. The over the top speculation makes it very difficult for people to tell fact from fiction. The following is what I call over the top speculation not based on any facts. "Sally had a lover. John was not the biological father. He wanted the child out of the way". This type of speculation needs it's own thread.

I have to tell you, the majority vs. minority mindset is making me and I'm sure other people uncomfortable.

IMO

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I'm glad to hear it is open to everyone.

As far as "majority vs. minority" I have popped in here enough over the years to say...it is rarely 50-50. I have found myself in both situations. The wonderful thing about WS however...is that your "opposition" in one case may well be your staunchest "ally" in regard to another case. There are no permanent allegiances! LOL!

And things can change on a case. The case that I found myself closest to...some years back...had a great sea change (Thank God) in public opinion as time went on.

So please don't be uncomfortable. We would all be bored to tears if we just came here to agree with each other. My point about the debate teams of years past...was that debates USED to be ...not about winning or losing so much ...but the mental exercise of honing an argument, and sparring WITH respect. Everyone DOES yield a point at one time or another. I have learned so much here...not just about facts of a case...but the amazing creative and different ways people can view the same exact thing.

who knew? said:

It shouldn't make you uncomfortable. Without opposing viewpoints, this would be a very boring discussion. I can see being uncomfortable if you are "attacked" and I agree it happens. It has happened to all of us. The best response to people who attack you (and some are known to attack anyone just to stir the pot, IMO) is to roll right on by their posts. I admit there are a couple of posters I just scroll past because I know they tend to be on the attack. If I read those type posts, I am more likely to "get pi$$ed and post" instead of "rolling and scrolling". The only thing that will come from that is a "time out".

Having a thread just for those of you who want no speculation may be the answer to the problem.

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Isn't it all speculation though? Isn't an Alternative Theory also speculation? I always enjoyed WS because the conversations, debates, and back and forth were filled with differing viewpoints, and opinions. That is the beauty of it in many ways. That is how we figure things out and develop new theories, thoughts, and find the holes. That and this forum is moderated very well.

The discussions are what brought me here, and the respect for the fact that people are going to have different opinions, outnumbered or not. We have all been the minority and we have all been part of the majority opinion here on different threads. That is part of it right?

There are some that clearly enter threads to stir the pot and argue. And that can and does happen in every single thread, not just General Discussion. It happens on the specific threads as well. Ignore Buttons and Scroll and Roll are the answer to that on any thread.

But isn't it all speculation based on the facts that have been released? General Discussion, Alternative Theories, Carseat,Insurance Payout, etc. We have a ton of posters here, and the forum is very active, which is what I love about it. Wading through tons of information, speculation, and trying to "catch up" are all parts of the WS experience. At least it always has been for me.

I feel like a no speculation thread goes against the very grain of WS. How do you sleuth and figure things out without speculation? I feel like that is what "No Discussion" threads are for, like The Media Thread. No discussion, no speculation, just reading and information. :cow: