48 Hours Mystery Part 2 June 2012

hawkshaw said:

IF the dog didn't stop to drop a deuce he would have caught the rabbit. Maybe SG was paranoid because she knew of others that mysteriously disappeared and were presumed by the sex community to be dead.

Weren't the GB4 found in the opposite direction of where SG was last seen running? You realize if it wasn't for a good cop with a lot of curiosity that appears to have pretty much went out on his own this would never have happened. SG would still be there to where she would have decomposed into nothingness.

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So the relevance is ... what exactly?

fred&edna said:

Please PB, don't be so defensive! I wasn't taking pleasure in shooting down your bragging rights.

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Read and understand. One year back, in the LISK threads of WS ... just read it before you discuss it.

fred&edna said:

Your quote suggested that MB's family and attorney used the "drunk white dude" wording... maybe it's the language barrier thing again?!

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The point was, people argued, the family and the lawyer had described it that way and I doubted it already back then. And if the next "language barrier thing" plays out that someone again explains me in ten posts, that the meaning was exactly the meaning, I understood and discussed, I will be probably the one needing Pepto.

fred&edna said:

OR it PROBABLY IS his voice and there is no additional evidence?! Not everyone here has taken sides (DrH vs NOT DrH). I am merely saying that my "probably" is as good as your "probably not"!

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The difference is, I don't need to construct additional evidence, which would force me to explain from where in Heaven this additional evidence shall come from. So, as long as you didn'T make suggestions, from where it may comes, you probably isn't as good. If you plant a theory, it should be at least complete.

fred&edna said:

Okay, you want to leave AC out of the list but "cold as it can be and not one second air time" is the reason?? She was mentioned last night for more than a second.

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Ok, since AC was in a list without further context, I misinterpreted that as Atlantic City. The comment about cold case referred therefore also to Atlantic City and not to Amber Costello. Damn abbreviation mania!

fred&edna said:

I hope LE is already in the boat but I hope they are not simply drifting.

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Nope, they are not simply drifting, they anchored in the middle of the strait and try to slow down all traffic

:+:MrTT:+: said:

First posting on this case.

I don't want to cause anyone to display hatred towards me. I know nothing much about this case. And I am sure you will notice that quickly by what I post. But I did just now watch the show part 2.

And I don't think she was being chased by the person responsible for the other 4 found wrapped in burlap or connected to that case.

She was in a state of paranoia and fear for a reason. If she would have stayed at one of the houses and waited on the police she would have been OK. But because of her fear, she felt she needed to keep running to get away from the monsters chasing her.

While searching for her in the area, is when they happened upon the other 4 there and found a killers burial ground. They stumbled upon it by accident while investigating the girl with fear.

But then again, maybe everyone already knows that and as a newb I just stated the obvious. If that is case tell me and Ill delete this message.

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Thank you!

I love that a fresh set of eyes can see the obvious so clearly.

Common sense right?

Peter Brendt said:

Read and understand. One year back, in the LISK threads of WS ... just read it before you discuss it.

The point was, people argued, the family and the lawyer had described it that way and I doubted it already back then. And if the next "language barrier thing" plays out that someone again explains me in ten posts, that the meaning was exactly the meaning, I understood and discussed, I will be probably the one needing Pepto.

The difference is, I don't need to construct additional evidence, which would force me to explain from where in Heaven this additional evidence shall come from. So, as long as you didn'T make suggestions, from where it may comes, you probably isn't as good. If you plant a theory, it should be at least complete.

Ok, since AC was in a list without further context, I misinterpreted that as Atlantic City. The comment about cold case referred therefore also to Atlantic City and not to Amber Costello. Damn abbreviation mania!

Nope, they are not simply drifting, they anchored in the middle of the strait and try to slow down all traffic

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YOU should read and understand as well, PB. I comprehend the fact you were bragging about your previous comments on posts regarding the "drunk, white dude" YET you used the word "NOW" in your post and this IS the thread where we are discussing the current (last night's episode) of 48 Hours!

Saying that it is possible the voice on the phone was recognized by mother or daughter is NOT constructing evidence. Possibilities are just what the word implies... if I had said "LIKELY" then I would be constructing evidence. Get it?

It appears to me (reading through many of your posts... and holy fernoly you have SOOO many) that maybe you just like to argue. You should find a debate team.

** Oh, AND... my quote was, ""AC, MB, MBB and MW "air time"" this IS a list and HAS context.

What I would recommend is that a seperate group be started about the SG case seperate from LISK. My reason for saying this is so far LE has not, and it seems that they will not in the near future, connect the two cases. The SG case and LISK connection can only be made in the area of public opinion. Maybe someone can contact an Admin and request a seperate group. If and when a connection is made between the two cases, then we can take it from there. What do yall think?

At 2:58 into the 48hours program, it was said about when SG was seen for the last time:

"...and is not seen again by anyone who is credible"

Does that mean that LE or somone else have information that somone NOT credible, have claimed they saw SG at a later time?

Theforeigner said:

At 2:58 into the 48hours program, it was said about when SG was seen for the last time:

"...and is not seen again by anyone who is credible"

Does that mean that LE or somone else have information that somone NOT credible, have claimed they saw SG at a later time?

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I took it as a hint to CPH. LE would have to given Mr. Ray that info, and for sure he would have stated that that came from LE. IMO

Seaslug44 said:

Thank you!

I love that a fresh set of eyes can see the obvious so clearly.

Common sense right?

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I was not swayed by the eerie music.
That something more sinister may be at hand.

But looking at the video, I would say your looking at 2 independent killers here.

Theforeigner said:

At 2:58 into the 48hours program, it was said about when SG was seen for the last time:

"...and is not seen again by anyone who is credible"

Does that mean that LE or somone else have information that somone NOT credible, have claimed they saw SG at a later time?

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Yes Theforeigner I heard that too and thought the same thing. In fact my mind did go the Dr since he had told Mari he had seen her and taken her to his house for rehab! Even tho he is a physician I don't think he is very credible and is in fact an out and out liar IMO.

:+:MrTT:+: said:

I was not swayed by the eerie music.
That something more sinister may be at hand.

But looking at the video, I would say your looking at 2 independent killers here.

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It is good to see you here MrTT :seeya:

I watched the 48 Hrs again and took notes this time. One thing I have not heard was:
The SK asked ALC to meet him at the Holliday Inn Express where he had met with MW just 3 months before. But ALC refused.
I find this interesting. What was it about this Hotel? Was the MW murder so "clean" that he knew he could easily do it again? Heck, 1000 questions.
*** As a side note*** I counted in my notes the amount of times the word Hotel appeared. MBB, MW, and AC (asked to go to a hotel). Is there a hotel connection? Or just that the girls were from out of town.
I have a feeling the SK lives not too far from the Holiday Inn Express. This could explain why he requested ALC to meet him there, so he wouldn't have to drive too far?

Next big thing in my notes: MB calls
Moriarti said " The Police learned a lot about him (SK) based on his voice"
LE began tracing the calls AFTER call# 3. There were 8 total calls. That Leaves 5 traced and I hope recorded calls. Lets speculate and say each call was only 1 min. That’s 5 mins. of good hard material to work with. Even if the voice is altered or loud back ground noise, that’s a treasure trove. So if that’s the case, when the Lawyer said, "based on the information from the sister and the data I have, the killer is a white male in his 20's- 30's. That’s HARD stuff. (If the CPH info was this good, I'd be on the CPH band wagon, but it is not)
These calls "should" be what gets this killer caught. I bet LE will someday release the calls when they are out of all other options. MOO
Since they are not 911 calls, would they fall under this strange NY 911 call law?

Next- DS, ALC's (Roommate)
He claims the killer called 3-4 times "very persistent" and that the calls were lengthy. He offered $1500. 6x the going rate.

That’s all, I guess.

nugzter said:

I watched the 48 Hrs again and took notes this time. One thing I have not heard was:
The SK asked ALC to meet him at the Holliday Inn Express where he had met with MW just 3 months before. But ALC refused.
I find this interesting. What was it about this Hotel? Was the MW murder so "clean" that he knew he could easily do it again? Heck, 1000 questions.
*** As a side note*** I counted in my notes the amount of times the word Hotel appeared. MBB, MW, and AC (asked to go to a hotel). Is there a hotel connection? Or just that the girls were from out of town.
I have a feeling the SK lives not too far from the Holiday Inn Express. This could explain why he requested ALC to meet him there, so he wouldn't have to drive too far?

Next big thing in my notes: MB calls
Moriarti said " The Police learned a lot about him (SK) based on his voice"
LE began tracing the calls AFTER call# 3. There were 8 total calls. That Leaves 5 traced and I hope recorded calls. Lets speculate and say each call was only 1 min. That’s 5 mins. of good hard material to work with. Even if the voice is altered or loud back ground noise, that’s a treasure trove. So if that’s the case, when the Lawyer said, "based on the information from the sister and the data I have, the killer is a white male in his 20's- 30's. That’s HARD stuff. (If the CPH info was this good, I'd be on the CPH band wagon, but it is not)
These calls "should" be what gets this killer caught. I bet LE will someday release the calls when they are out of all other options. MOO
Since they are not 911 calls, would they fall under this strange NY 911 call law?

Next- DS, ALC's (Roommate)
He claims the killer called 3-4 times "very persistent" and that the calls were lengthy. He offered $1500. 6x the going rate.

That’s all, I guess.

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Well regarding hotels- just a reminder that Akeem Cruz's co-defendent/neighbor Robert Blake was arrested at the same Massapequa motel 4 months before MB went there the nite she disappeared.

And Cruz (Vybe), Robert Blake, Khalil (Remi), Tanya Rush (and Dave Schaler nowadays) all lived in Brooklyn. Do we know if Terry lived there as well to complete the circle of having all the pimps living in Brooklyn at some point? I hear Terry's a bit of a nervous nellie and moves around a lot tho.

It's been discussed before that this hotel is known for being a place to take prostitutes and protects both the prostitutes and their pimps and clients. Why rent a room for $60 or so a night when they can rent it 8 or so times a day/night for the same price. It may also protect high profile clients. JMO from rumors on various forums. If anyone has any other info to support this I would love to hear it.

Redbird said:

It's been discussed before that this hotel is known for being a place to take prostitutes and protects both the prostitutes and their pimps and clients. Why rent a room for $60 or so a night when they can rent it 8 or so times a day/night for the same price. It may also protect high profile clients. JMO from rumors on various forums. If anyone has any other info to support this I would love to hear it.

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Exactly!!!! So lets assume the SK knows this after meeting MW. He asks ALC to meet him there. She says no. Why did she say no? She must have known it was one of those "spots".
Now on the other hand, MW and the SK never met INSIDE the HIE. So why would he request ALC meet him there?

nugzter said:

I watched the 48 Hrs again and took notes this time. One thing I have not heard was:
The SK asked ALC to meet him at the Holliday Inn Express where he had met with MW just 3 months before. But ALC refused.
I find this interesting. What was it about this Hotel? Was the MW murder so "clean" that he knew he could easily do it again? Heck, 1000 questions.
*** As a side note*** I counted in my notes the amount of times the word Hotel appeared. MBB, MW, and AC (asked to go to a hotel). Is there a hotel connection? Or just that the girls were from out of town.
I have a feeling the SK lives not too far from the Holiday Inn Express. This could explain why he requested ALC to meet him there, so he wouldn't have to drive too far?

Next big thing in my notes: MB calls
Moriarti said " The Police learned a lot about him (SK) based on his voice"
LE began tracing the calls AFTER call# 3. There were 8 total calls. That Leaves 5 traced and I hope recorded calls. Lets speculate and say each call was only 1 min. That’s 5 mins. of good hard material to work with. Even if the voice is altered or loud back ground noise, that’s a treasure trove. So if that’s the case, when the Lawyer said, "based on the information from the sister and the data I have, the killer is a white male in his 20's- 30's. That’s HARD stuff. (If the CPH info was this good, I'd be on the CPH band wagon, but it is not)
These calls "should" be what gets this killer caught. I bet LE will someday release the calls when they are out of all other options. MOO
Since they are not 911 calls, would they fall under this strange NY 911 call law?

Next- DS, ALC's (Roommate)
He claims the killer called 3-4 times "very persistent" and that the calls were lengthy. He offered $1500. 6x the going rate.

That’s all, I guess.

Click to expand...

Well....the show was about what I expected. I was underwhelmed like most of you. Mostly rehashing the original show with perhaps 5 minutes of new footage and interviews. The walk retracing Shannan's path in marsh to where she was found was interesting, however they cut it too much. The link that Adler posted on the Shannan #2 thread (thank you!) has more footage of it:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/...&utm_campaign=Feed:+cbsnews/feed+(CBSNews.com

(I wish they could've shown the entire walk)

I, too, was struck by the water level in the puddles around her site. Ray made mention that it was the same time of year and the conditions were close to what she encountered. I agree with Peter, there was enough water there for her to have drowned. I still believe there is a possibility of the paradoxical undressing, along with her highly paranoid/agitated and confused state of mind contributing to her pants being so far away from her body. As to Ray's contention that she couldn't have run through the marsh with bare feet--she thought she was running for her LIFE!! With that kind of adrenaline surging through her system and the fear she was feeling, I doubt she noticed until later on in the marsh. She could've passed out into one of the puddles. I often wonder what position her remains were found in, that'd be very telling. Of course since she'd been out there so long, could've been moved by animals or the incliment weather.

Or...there is a chance that she was chased to that location. Could someone have attempted to rape her and pulled her pants off? Then she escaped and ran further into the marsh? I agree that it's a shame that so much of the focus was on Shannan and the other women were pushed aside. If she was murdered, I doubt it was by the LISK. It does get some attention on the case again however.

nutzger-excellent post! Thanks for pointing out the SK wanting to meet ALC at the Holiday Inn Express and she refused, I didn't catch that. Yes, I would think that being so successful with MW would have given him alot of confidence in that location. What I've found strange is they had great footage of her in the hallway IN the hotel, but once she left the building she vanished without a trace. I'm wondering how many cameras they have, were they functioning that night and/or how soon is the footage erased? I would think there would be some traffic cams somewhere along that stretch of road...really a lost opportunity there. I think you're right, the LISK probably lives close to the hotel-somewhere on Manhattan.

Now to the calls from the LISK to Amanda, MB's sister. A "treasure trove" indeed! I hope that the Suffolk PD has played these tapes for all the victim's families, friends and acquaintances-it's such an important lead! Someone's memory could be jogged with that key clue. I have a feeling that they haven't, can't say I have much confidence in that PD department. I know this question has been brought up before, why don't they release these tapes to the media/AMW?! They aren't like 911 calls and can be released. I would say that the Suffolk PD has reached that point of being out of other options-get them out there! That being said, I hope that it'd be more successful than when they released calls of the Zodiac in California and the BTK. Neither bore any fruit. Dennis Rader even had a public service video on the air about animal control for awhile and that didn't get him caught.


A sidenote on the Suffolk PD: I had no idea they were still
searching for a replacement for Dormer over 6 months after he stepped down! If it takes this long to do that, what great strides are they making in the LISK investigation?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFLlOX04ojo"]New Suffolk Commissioner Could Be Named Soon - YouTube[/ame]

nugzter said:

I watched the 48 Hrs again and took notes this time. One thing I have not heard was:
The SK asked ALC to meet him at the Holliday Inn Express where he had met with MW just 3 months before. But ALC refused.
I find this interesting. What was it about this Hotel? Was the MW murder so "clean" that he knew he could easily do it again? Heck, 1000 questions.
*** As a side note*** I counted in my notes the amount of times the word Hotel appeared. MBB, MW, and AC (asked to go to a hotel). Is there a hotel connection? Or just that the girls were from out of town.
I have a feeling the SK lives not too far from the Holiday Inn Express. This could explain why he requested ALC to meet him there, so he wouldn't have to drive too far?

Next big thing in my notes: MB calls
Moriarti said " The Police learned a lot about him (SK) based on his voice"
LE began tracing the calls AFTER call# 3. There were 8 total calls. That Leaves 5 traced and I hope recorded calls. Lets speculate and say each call was only 1 min. That’s 5 mins. of good hard material to work with. Even if the voice is altered or loud back ground noise, that’s a treasure trove. So if that’s the case, when the Lawyer said, "based on the information from the sister and the data I have, the killer is a white male in his 20's- 30's. That’s HARD stuff. (If the CPH info was this good, I'd be on the CPH band wagon, but it is not)
These calls "should" be what gets this killer caught. I bet LE will someday release the calls when they are out of all other options. MOO
Since they are not 911 calls, would they fall under this strange NY 911 call law?

Next- DS, ALC's (Roommate)
He claims the killer called 3-4 times "very persistent" and that the calls were lengthy. He offered $1500. 6x the going rate.

That’s all, I guess.

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BBM... Just wondering if it is/was true that the drifter's mother lived in Massapequa??

A sidenote on the Suffolk PD: I had no idea they were still
searching for a replacement for Dormer over 6 months after he stepped down! If it takes this long to do that, what great strides are they making in the LISK investigation?


New Suffolk Commissioner Could Be Named Soon - YouTube

LOL. Maybe it is because no legitimate person would take the job if he/she is a token commissioner that will take orders from the very 'interesting' Chief of Dept, James Burke.

LOL . Bellone had picked Burke even before he took office.

These people are a joke.

nugzter said:

I watched the 48 Hrs again and took notes this time. One thing I have not heard was:
The SK asked ALC to meet him at the Holliday Inn Express where he had met with MW just 3 months before. But ALC refused.
I find this interesting. What was it about this Hotel? Was the MW murder so "clean" that he knew he could easily do it again? Heck, 1000 questions.
*** As a side note*** I counted in my notes the amount of times the word Hotel appeared. MBB, MW, and AC (asked to go to a hotel). Is there a hotel connection? Or just that the girls were from out of town.
I have a feeling the SK lives not too far from the Holiday Inn Express. This could explain why he requested ALC to meet him there, so he wouldn't have to drive too far?

Click to expand...

MW went twice a moth to LI to meet with clients. ALC was at her home in LI when she received the calls. Nothing with hotel. I think, that is one of those wobbly wordings in that 48 Hours.

nugzter said:

Next big thing in my notes: MB calls
Moriarti said " The Police learned a lot about him (SK) based on his voice"
LE began tracing the calls AFTER call# 3. There were 8 total calls. That Leaves 5 traced and I hope recorded calls. Lets speculate and say each call was only 1 min. That’s 5 mins. of good hard material to work with. Even if the voice is altered or loud back ground noise, that’s a treasure trove. So if that’s the case, when the Lawyer said, "based on the information from the sister and the data I have, the killer is a white male in his 20's- 30's. That’s HARD stuff. (If the CPH info was this good, I'd be on the CPH band wagon, but it is not)
These calls "should" be what gets this killer caught. I bet LE will someday release the calls when they are out of all other options. MOO
Since they are not 911 calls, would they fall under this strange NY 911 call law?

Click to expand...

A treasure trove, they will not publish, I think. SCPD keeps everything a secret even if they should know, they're stuck.
The line of the lawyer (Cohen or so) is basically, what LE said, they would think after those calls. This is in a way consistent with the FBI rubber stamp profile of a white loner 20-50 thing. They were not very good with that over the last decade. LISK is too high organized to be in his early 20s, that moves the bracket to 25-35, rather around 30 when he started. But since the lawyer also stated, those calls were calm and controlled, the possibility of an altered voice or altered speech patterns is more than ever a possibility.

nugzter said:

Next- DS, ALC's (Roommate)
He claims the killer called 3-4 times "very persistent" and that the calls were lengthy. He offered $1500. 6x the going rate.

That’s all, I guess.

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In fact, a john called. Whether he was the killer would depend whether the last john connections of all four GB4 could be traced back to the same john. Since it appears to me as if they found different johns already, we can be pretty sure, ALC's last john wasn't her killer.

Redbird said:

It's been discussed before that this hotel is known for being a place to take prostitutes and protects both the prostitutes and their pimps and clients. Why rent a room for $60 or so a night when they can rent it 8 or so times a day/night for the same price. It may also protect high profile clients. JMO from rumors on various forums. If anyone has any other info to support this I would love to hear it.

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It's quite circumstantial, but the same hotel chain is known for the same thing at least in parts of Europe. Long ago, in Cebit fair times in Hannover, I had to book there (if you book less than 4 months ahead for the fair times, you will get no rooms but in those hotels, Hannover is loaded at that time of the year) and lets say, it was wild there.

nugzter said:

Exactly!!!! So lets assume the SK knows this after meeting MW. He asks ALC to meet him there. She says no. Why did she say no? She must have known it was one of those "spots".
Now on the other hand, MW and the SK never met INSIDE the HIE. So why would he request ALC meet him there?

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Because she didn't. Listen closely at what they really say in this 48 Hours. It's just one of those tricks. In the written form, you would see a comma there.