48 Hours Mystery Part 2 June 2012

Peter Brendt · Jun 24, 2012

Betty P said:
The full 48 Hours Episode is now available for viewing on their web site

The Long Island Serial Killer - 48 Hours - CBS News

I found it very interesting, especially the part where her attorney walked into the marsh to the locations where SG's clothing and body were found. The area where her clothes were found was simply an area of tall grass. There was nothing to indicate her pants could have been caught in any bushes, etc.

I've been following this case from the beginning and still stop in here occasionally to read updates. I still think LE could be doing more to solve this case.

We had the paradoxical undressing discussion already in other threads. No bush can rip a tight jeans from a body, also no brambles. The only thing getting a girl out of that kind of jeans is she or her lover. I think, the lover we can cancel. And with a probability of more than 60%, if she had taken cocaine with alcohol or ecstasy with alcohol, her body's temperature regulation was severely compromised. The same as other patients with the very same drug mixes who pop up in the ERs.
When it comes to LE, I think, it would be also already progress if they would stop to be an obstacle.

scandi · Jun 24, 2012

MrsPC said:
in the first few minutes it is stated that the Gilberts & their attorney were not allowed to listen to Shannan's actual 911 call....they were only read a partial transcript. so, it is finally confirmed no one but law enforcement have heard the content of that call.

Hi MrsPC, I had read your post before I watched the show and that isn't what I heard. I think the show said their attorney Mr Ray was not allowed to listen to the 911 call. Boy, he sure knew a lot about what was said on the call though! I did not hear the Gilberts named as not being allowed to listen to the call.

I hope 48 Hours has transcripts.

I would give the show a B+. They sure honed in on Dr Hackett. I was a mite surprised they were given the go ahead to do that. LE must have a say so as to what could be said or not said IMO.

I do believe in shows like this timing is often key to the investigation. There is some message LE is trying to get out to friends, relatives, neighbors, etc to hopefully further the investigation. Back to Hackett was not on my list of topics expected in the show. I think they're looking to confirm something. Maybe something like the Dr was seen out roving around that early morning. Possibility, eh, or even at the house partying it up? I learned from this show that Pak was inside the house with Shannan and the way they stated it seemed like he was partying too, not just let in to get her out. Well, Pak did tell Coletti he had been at a party with the girl who had knocked on his door.

Seaslug44 · Jun 24, 2012

Also, anyone else notice Coletti now through in the "I told her to sit right in that chair and wait" line (that is a new one we never heard him say before).

This old guy might be a distraction (because it is obvious that walking around with his cane he is not LISK), but did he have to change his story again to cover his *advertiser censored* in regards to the accusations that he was not a good citizen and did not let her in his house?

sean62185 · Jun 24, 2012

The lawyer said "when the police would find them, they were, in some way mutilated." Was he refering to all victims? Or was he refering to the last 6 that were found, when he made that statement? I was always under the assumption the GB4 were strangled. Were they mutilated too? Does this change the profile of LISK?

hawkshaw · Jun 24, 2012

The show was a huge disappointment and a con job on the public. The 911 tape has been discussed by a Det.Stephan in his letter to the newspaper. He said he listened to the tape and SG was in control throughout.

AOL does this sort of 'journalism' on their website. They put up sensational information to get you to open up the thread. When you get there you can't find the story.

fred&edna · Jun 24, 2012

snipped by me to save space

Peter Brendt said:
I like to point out some of the contradictions:

- The description of the phone calls the killer made was interesting. No drunk white dude lines anymore. Now the description is "calm and controlled". Without wanting to do too much bragging, but look up my posts from a year ago about that subject. Check!

- I would like to hear from the families of the other victims. All is only SG, SG, SG and more SG distracting effectively from the GB4 and by this from LISK.

Well, that's hoe I perceived it. Erin Moriarty was once good in her job, but this time, she s***** up to John Ray. Maybe it's time, she retires.

Uhhh.... hate to shoot down your bragging rights PB. But the statements about the phone calls describing the caller as possibly a drunk white dude were made by JTerry who was not mentioned on the show last night. I don't believe MB's attorney nor family used the words "drunk white dude" in their descriptions.

And, as we agreed on the other thread... SG, SG, SG is helping to give the cases of AC, MB, MBB and MW "air time".

But, to tie your above mentioned quotes together... it's too bad Moriarity didn't ask MB's family, "Have you heard any voices of POI's that sound familiar? Any voices that sound like the caller?" Of course that wasn't gonna happen, but it's wishful thinking on my part.

Still too much unknown, leaving us to argue about what little we know

** And, why oh why is there never, ever a mention of the drifter?!?

Peter Brendt · Jun 24, 2012

nugzter said:
One thing that the 48 Hours tells me is that the SK is most likely not secretly communicating with LE or the press and asking for more press. This was a theory I was throwing around in my head. I was hopeing that he was and LE was keeping it secret. Or am I off base Peter. We know he made contact with victims familys, so maybe he might man up and try to contact the press or LE directly. It seemed to me he was also an attention getter. Guess I got that wrong.

The problem is, we have effectively two or maybe one and a team in the area. LISK has his own agenda, he doesn't need to explain, he thinks, his deeds are speaking for him. Even the phone calls, now finally described as "calm and controlled" and not as "drunk white dude", they were not explanation, they were not bragging and certainly, they were not for sexual arousal, they were for domination!
The one (or two?) with the attention problem is/are Manorville. But he doesn't feel verbal enough to go directly to the media. He probably trolls around in the internet, that gives him more anonymity, therefore more self-esteem.

Peter Brendt · Jun 24, 2012

scandi said:
Hi MrsPC, I had read your post before I watched the show and that isn't what I heard. I think the show said their attorney Mr Ray was not allowed to listen to the 911 call. Boy, he sure knew a lot about what was said on the call though! I did not hear the Gilberts named as not being allowed to listen to the call.

I hope 48 Hours has transcripts.

I would give the show a B+. They sure honed in on Dr Hackett. I was a mite surprised they were given the go ahead to do that. LE must have a say so as to what could be said or not said IMO.

I do believe in shows like this timing is often key to the investigation. There is some message LE is trying to get out to friends, relatives, neighbors, etc to hopefully further the investigation. Back to Hackett was not on my list of topics expected in the show. I think they're looking to confirm something. Maybe something like the Dr was seen out roving around that early morning. Possibility, eh, or even at the house partying it up? I learned from this show that Pak was inside the house with Shannan and the way they stated it seemed like he was partying too, not just let in to get her out. Well, Pak did tell Coletti he had been at a party with the girl who had knocked on his door.

Uhhhh ...
Since 48 Hours committed pretty hefty to the CPH angle in the earlier shows, to hack on Hacked is more a consistency issue. And since all the show degraded the other four victims to side events and directed the focus on SG and SG only, LISK was anyway out of the picture. Which is one of the aspects, that was a little bit upsetting. We got once more served the game of "who yells loudest".

Peter Brendt · Jun 24, 2012

Seaslug44 said:
Also, anyone else notice Coletti now through in the "I told her to sit right in that chair and wait" line (that is a new one we never heard him say before).

This old guy might be a distraction (because it is obvious that walking around with his cane he is not LISK), but did he have to change his story again to cover his *advertiser censored* in regards to the accusations that he was not a good citizen and did not let her in his house?

The problem with the cane is, it showed, that he was cut in from older material. He used the cane after his knee operation. So what we saw of Coletti was not new or not changed anything, it was parts of the interview with him, they cut out of the earlier shows.

Peter Brendt · Jun 24, 2012

sean62185 said:
The lawyer said "when the police would find them, they were, in some way mutilated." Was he refering to all victims? Or was he refering to the last 6 that were found, when he made that statement? I was always under the assumption the GB4 were strangled. Were they mutilated too? Does this change the profile of LISK?

It would change the profile if it would be true and refer to the GB4. But since Ray used the wax-soft lawyer speech, I would assume, he knew, he was willfully forcing a wrong impression leaving himself a backdoor later to say "wait, that was of course only for the dismembered victims".
With all Ray statements, you have to understand, that he has as much knowledge about SKs as a cow about playing the piano. He is out for publicity and maybe a nice lawsuit against the SCPD, and that's it.
So, I wouldn't change my profile because of this remarks. If anything, it confirms rather my profile of Ray.

Peter Brendt · Jun 24, 2012

fred&edna said:
snipped by me to save space

Uhhh.... hate to shoot down your bragging rights PB.

Not true, you would love it as you could :floorlaugh:

fred&edna said:
But the statements about the phone calls describing the caller as possibly a drunk white dude were made by JTerry who was not mentioned on the show last night. I don't believe MB's attorney nor family used the words "drunk white dude" in their descriptions.

That was exactly the point in earlier discussions. Every time, I said, this was too controlled, someone jumped in and claimed, Terri AND Amanda have described him as "drunk white dude".
So, why don't you go back in the threads and read, what was actually talked? And why I put this check mark in?

fred&edna said:
And, as we agreed on the other thread... SG, SG, SG is helping to give the cases of AC, MB, MBB and MW "air time".

I think, we can leave AC out of this list. AC is as cold as it can be and not one second air time referred to AC anyway. And, even it is a good thing, anybody in one of those cases gets airtime, the GB4 and even more JT, JD6 and the toddler and the Asian male were degraded to side notes.

fred&edna said:
But, to tie your above mentioned quotes together... it's too bad Moriarity didn't ask MB's family, "Have you heard any voices of POI's that sound familiar? Any voices that sound like the caller?" Of course that wasn't gonna happen, but it's wishful thinking on my part.

Or asked any other families. On the other hand, I would assume, Amanda and Terri have heard the tapes with Hackett's voice a hundred times at least. If they would have said, it was that voice, LE would be after CPH. So, probably it wasn't his voice.

fred&edna said:
Still too much unknown, leaving us to argue about what little we know

** And, why oh why is there never, ever a mention of the drifter?!?

At this point, I think, we have, if we put all together, a pretty good picture of the situation. More can only be done, if we would get LE in the boat.
The drifter appears to be not important enough. He was there, nobody saw him out of the house, that's it. The only thing, the drifter could confirm or dismiss would be drug abuse that night and in that house and that he wouldn't do anyway because he would hang with the others. So technically, the only purpose, the drifter had, was to have sex with SG.

LunaticFringe · Jun 24, 2012

I am still baffled by the comment made that Shannon could have lost her jeans while she was running through the marsh.
What...did her pants get scared too and high tail it off of her?

Peter Brendt · Jun 24, 2012

LunaticFringe said:
I am still baffled by the comment made that Shannon could have lost her jeans while she was running through the marsh.
What...did her pants get scared too and high tail it off of her?

Ray wants to let it look as if there is something fishy. He earns his money with doing that. Add to that a limited knowledge about the case and cases like it and there you are. Of course, her pants didn't just fall off. She pulled them off, a symptom one can watch in two situations in such cases:

- as paradoxical undressing
- as symptom for any kind of trouble with the body's heat regulation

Both together occur often after combinations of alcohol and psychoactive drugs are taken and the patient is exposed to even mildly lower temperatures. The about 60F in that night would have fit the bill, especially, if her clothes got wet from running through a marsh with water puddles. Wet clothes increase the loss of body heat.

:+:MrTT:+: · Jun 24, 2012

First posting on this case.

I don't want to cause anyone to display hatred towards me. I know nothing much about this case. And I am sure you will notice that quickly by what I post. But I did just now watch the show part 2.

And I don't think she was being chased by the person responsible for the other 4 found wrapped in burlap or connected to that case.

She was in a state of paranoia and fear for a reason. If she would have stayed at one of the houses and waited on the police she would have been OK. But because of her fear, she felt she needed to keep running to get away from the monsters chasing her.

While searching for her in the area, is when they happened upon the other 4 there and found a killers burial ground. They stumbled upon it by accident while investigating the girl with fear.

But then again, maybe everyone already knows that and as a newb I just stated the obvious. If that is case tell me and Ill delete this message.

LunaticFringe · Jun 24, 2012

Peter Brendt said:
Ray wants to let it look as if there is something fishy. He earns his money with doing that. Add to that a limited knowledge about the case and cases like it and there you are. Of course, her pants didn't just fall off. She pulled them off, a symptom one can watch in two situations in such cases:

- as paradoxical undressing
- as symptom for any kind of trouble with the body's heat regulation

Both together occur often after combinations of alcohol and psychoactive drugs are taken and the patient is exposed to even mildly lower temperatures. The about 60F in that night would have fit the bill, especially, if her clothes got wet from running through a marsh with water puddles. Wet clothes increase the loss of body heat.

I can see it happening due to hypothermia.Why didn't he just say that?So many questions....with no answers.

:+:MrTT:+: · Jun 24, 2012

Peter Brendt said:
Ray wants to let it look as if there is something fishy. He earns his money with doing that. Add to that a limited knowledge about the case and cases like it and there you are. Of course, her pants didn't just fall off. She pulled them off, a symptom one can watch in two situations in such cases:

- as paradoxical undressing
- as symptom for any kind of trouble with the body's heat regulation

Both together occur often after combinations of alcohol and psychoactive drugs are taken and the patient is exposed to even mildly lower temperatures. The about 60F in that night would have fit the bill, especially, if her clothes got wet from running through a marsh with water puddles. Wet clothes increase the loss of body heat.

I would agree with this. Her passing has nothing to do with the killing field. Just a sad fact of circumstances.

Were they able to do toxicology tests? Or was it to late for that or came up inconclusive.
I know they said cause of death unknown.

hawkshaw · Jun 24, 2012

IF the dog didn't stop to drop a deuce he would have caught the rabbit. Maybe SG was paranoid because she knew of others that mysteriously disappeared and were presumed by the sex community to be dead.

Weren't the GB4 found in the opposite direction of where SG was last seen running? You realize if it wasn't for a good cop with a lot of curiosity that appears to have pretty much went out on his own this would never have happened. SG would still be there to where she would have decomposed into nothingness.

fred&edna · Jun 24, 2012

Peter Brendt said:
Not true, you would love it as you could :floorlaugh:

That was exactly the point in earlier discussions. Every time, I said, this was too controlled, someone jumped in and claimed, Terri AND Amanda have described him as "drunk white dude".
So, why don't you go back in the threads and read, what was actually talked? And why I put this check mark in?

I think, we can leave AC out of this list. AC is as cold as it can be and not one second air time referred to AC anyway. And, even it is a good thing, anybody in one of those cases gets airtime, the GB4 and even more JT, JD6 and the toddler and the Asian male were degraded to side notes.

Or asked any other families. On the other hand, I would assume, Amanda and Terri have heard the tapes with Hackett's voice a hundred times at least. If they would have said, it was that voice, LE would be after CPH. So, probably it wasn't his voice.

At this point, I think, we have, if we put all together, a pretty good picture of the situation. More can only be done, if we would get LE in the boat.
The drifter appears to be not important enough. He was there, nobody saw him out of the house, that's it. The only thing, the drifter could confirm or dismiss would be drug abuse that night and in that house and that he wouldn't do anyway because he would hang with the others. So technically, the only purpose, the drifter had, was to have sex with SG.

Please PB, don't be so defensive! I wasn't taking pleasure in shooting down your bragging rights. Your quote suggested that MB's family and attorney used the "drunk white dude" wording... maybe it's the language barrier thing again?!

OR it PROBABLY IS his voice and there is no additional evidence?! Not everyone here has taken sides (DrH vs NOT DrH). I am merely saying that my "probably" is as good as your "probably not"!

Okay, you want to leave AC out of the list but "cold as it can be and not one second air time" is the reason?? She was mentioned last night for more than a second.

I hope LE is already in the boat but I hope they are not simply drifting.

WINDSOR · Jun 24, 2012

I watched the show last night and have a few comments,

1) I was pleased how sensible and clear John Ray appeared, especially after some negative comments were posted previously. I think he is doing a good job for the Gilbert family to date.

2) I also realized that this show, as most electronic media, used bites and editing to direct the viewer to points they wanted to make. That in itself it is not bad as long as the viewer understands that scenes are edited, older material is inter-spaced with new material and so on.

3) Since I am great believer in some sort of MP and CPH co-operation on the night of SG's disappearance, I felt gratified that the show emphasized the need to re-investigate CPH,MP,and JB.

4) Dormer appeared in this show, even sillier than previously, just no creditably. When questioned if the on scene officer would have done a better search if SG was somebody's wife. Dormer's response was the officer did not know SG was in the sex trade. It is laughable, if the officer after 45 minutes of investigating could not deduce what SG was in Oak Beach for, he was very naive.

After speaking to JB (if he did) the officer knew why SG had been their. That is when 'its only a hooker mentality set in'.

Erin should have asked Dormer if it was his daughter that went missing would the investigation been carried out the same way?

5) I was pleased as well there was a call for the public's assistance at the end of the show.

Overall a good job by Erin and her crew.

MOO

Peter Brendt · Jun 24, 2012

:+:MrTT:+: said:
I would agree with this. Her passing has nothing to do with the killing field. Just a sad fact of circumstances.

Were they able to do toxicology tests? Or was it to late for that or came up inconclusive.
I know they said cause of death unknown.

Skeletal remains only, so no regular tox screen, sorry

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