Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#13

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Katody said:
Could you be more clear?
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She posted the link to the video of Raffaele stating he got there about 5 hours or whatever it was earlier the time that is in the records. And then she was asking you, why did he misrepresent the time he arrived at the station? And I don't think it ever got answered, IIRC.
 
aa9511 said:
She posted the link to the video of Raffaele stating he got there about 5 hours or whatever it was earlier the time that is in the records. And then she was asking you, why did he misrepresent the time he arrived at the station? And I don't think it ever got answered, IIRC.
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?? He's not saying that in the video.
 
aa9511 said:
Ah, I see. Okay, so if I take a pencil from the library - that means that my "character" allows me to just as easily steal a computer from the library. Ah, so clear now. In that case, let's go back and see if Amanda has ever done a prank on anyone before..........................................................................
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Apples and oranges. The better case scenario would be has Amanda ever played a "prank" that was violent, involved using a knife. Rudy has an MO of breaking and entering for the purpose of burglary, with a knife, and a violent tendency towards women. As far as we know Rudy does not have an MO of "pranks", violent or otherwise. So when looking at the case, and the evidence that was left behind, it points to one person. The one person that has the same MO that the crime shows, Rudy. Perhaps that is why it is so difficult to believe that Rudy played such a small or limited role in this crime. It is also very difficult to believe that this crime started off as a "prank gone bad". It appears to defy logic and common sense IMO.

MOO
 
quesarita said:
As I said, I don't know how Meredith would have talked about knowing Rudy, just that it would be incorrect to say that they had not been in the same room with mutual "friends" before, or that Rudy didn't know who Meredith was - therefore it would not be classified as a "random" or "stranger" rape.
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Ok, then in the discussion of how the three Amanda, RS, and Rudy got together, why is it so often brought up that what did Amanda and RS have to do with Rudy? When clearly Amanda knew him, that much we can all agree on. I also think RS knew him, but anyway I will leave that out for now.

Amanda knew him.
 
Katody said:
Please continue. What is the evidence they staged the rape, collected Guede's DNA and then put it inside victim's body and around?
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You never answered my question. Because Rudy's bloody clothes were not found, does that mean he was naked when he committed the murder?
 
TorisMom003 said:
The rock through the window is NOT a rather obvious example of tampering with the scene, especially if it was NOT staged as the police thought. The missing phones can not be contributed to only AK and/or RS. Same goes for the locked bedroom door. Showering in a bathroom that is not obviously covered in blood is also not a clear example of tampering. It is however an example of not realizing a crime had been comitted and going on with a person's day as normal.

MOO
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If we assume that every level of the Italian justice system is mistaken, confused, corrupt, incompetent and malicious, then of course there is no tampering. If we look at the case at face value, then there is very clearly a staged break in.

Knox's email
November 4, 2007

"i undressed in my room and took a quick shower in one of the two bathrooms in my house, the one that is right next to meredith and my bedrooms (situated right next to one another). it was after i stepped out of the shower and onto the mat that i noticed the blood in the bathroom. it was on the mat i was using to dry my feet and there were drops of blood in the sink. at first i thought the blood might have come from my ears which i had pierced extrensively not too long ago, but then immediately i know it wasnt mine becaus the stains on the mat were too big for just droplets form my ear, and when i touched the blood in the sink it was caked on already. there was also blood smeered on the faucet. again, however, i thought it was strange, ..."

Two Reference, same information:

http://www.anorak.co.uk/379615/news...ginal-email-home-and-a-five-page-denial.html/

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Amanda_Knox's_Email_Home
 
Katody said:
?? He's not saying that in the video.
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Maybe it was a book link. Anyway, if you do not remember, that's fine. You have very clear and detailed memory of the aspects of this case and of the court papers, so I just assumed you would have an excellent memory in other areas as well.
 
Katody said:
?? He's not saying that in the video.
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What exactly is he saying then? Please I need to know the excuse for this lie.

He says the reason AK was "stretching" is because she had been waiting 5 hours. That is a major exaggeration of the truth and what evidence and AK herself says. She tells the time they arrived at the station in her testimony.
 
TorisMom003 said:
Apples and oranges. The better case scenario would be has Amanda ever played a "prank" that was violent, involved using a knife. Rudy has an MO of breaking and entering for the purpose of burglary, with a knife, and a violent tendency towards women. As far as we know Rudy does not have an MO of "pranks", violent or otherwise. So when looking at the case, and the evidence that was left behind, it points to one person. The one person that has the same MO that the crime shows, Rudy. Perhaps that is why it is so difficult to believe that Rudy played such a small or limited role in this crime. It is also very difficult to believe that this crime started off as a "prank gone bad". It appears to defy logic and common sense IMO.

MOO
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Do you know for a fact that the prank which Amanda was involved in in Seattle did not involve knives? As I understand it, this whole prank thing was just a "rumor" to begin with, suddenly having been confirmed by Amanda herself many years after the fact. Therefore, I wonder what other "rumors" there are involving Amanda which we do not know about...................................
 
aa9511 said:
Maybe it was a book link. Anyway, if you do not remember, that's fine. You have very clear and detailed memory of the aspects of this case and of the court papers, so I just assumed you would have an excellent memory in other areas as well.
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I've provided the link to the post with the video. You should watch it. Just past the 11min mark. RS should really brush up on the facts before giving interviews.
 
otto said:
If we assume that every level of the Italian justice system is mistaken, confused, corrupt, incompetent and malicious, then of course there is no tampering. If we look at the case at face value, then there is very clearly a staged break in.

Knox's email
November 4, 2007

"i undressed in my room and took a quick shower in one of the two bathrooms in my house, the one that is right next to meredith and my bedrooms (situated right next to one another). it was after i stepped out of the shower and onto the mat that i noticed the blood in the bathroom. it was on the mat i was using to dry my feet and there were drops of blood in the sink. at first i thought the blood might have come from my ears which i had pierced extrensively not too long ago, but then immediately i know it wasnt mine becaus the stains on the mat were too big for just droplets form my ear, and when i touched the blood in the sink it was caked on already. there was also blood smeered on the faucet. again, however, i thought it was strange, ..."

Two Reference, same information:

http://www.anorak.co.uk/379615/news...ginal-email-home-and-a-five-page-denial.html/

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Amanda_Knox's_Email_Home
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I have been looking at the case at face value and I still do not see signs of tampering or manipulation by Ak and/or RS. I did not come into this case believing one way or the other in their innocence or guilt. I have, however, looked at the evidence, the way things were handled (collecting evidence) and photos.

Not every court believes that AK and RS are in fact guilty. Even though Hellman was annulled does not mean that his opinion, as a judge, is to be completely discounted as someone (court) that believes they are innocent.

Showing what Amanda said does not show evidence of tampering or manipulation. It shows that she only paid attention to the spots of blood in the bathroom after taking a shower.

MOO
 
aa9511 said:
Do you know for a fact that the prank which Amanda was involved in in Seattle did not involve knives? As I understand it, this whole prank thing was just a "rumor" to begin with, suddenly having been confirmed by Amanda herself many years after the fact. Therefore, I wonder what other "rumors" there are involving Amanda which we do not know about...................................
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So now we just assume that Amanda had a past of playing pranks involving knives. I suppose this makes it easier to believe the worst in her. But let's forget the fact that Rudy has clearly shown his character from his past with his use of knives and violence towards women. Sometimes I can't help but have my mouth drop open in disbelief at what is believed and what is ignored.

MOO
 
aa9511 said:
Ok, then in the discussion of how the three Amanda, RS, and Rudy got together, why is it so often brought up that what did Amanda and RS have to do with Rudy? When clearly Amanda knew him, that much we can all agree on. I also think RS knew him, but anyway I will leave that out for now.

Amanda knew him.
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And if it was Amanda and not Meredith who was raped and murdered, the same standard would apply. To go right from being in the same room with mutual friends one time, to plotting an elaborate break-in and coverup together, is not a logical stretch. There has to be some additional relationship between the 3.

Amanda did mention Rudy to the police as someone who had been to the cottage (downstairs) but did not know his name.
 
TorisMom003 said:
I have been looking at the case at face value and I still do not see signs of tampering or manipulation by Ak and/or RS. I did not come into this case believing one way or the other in their innocence or guilt. I have, however, looked at the evidence, the way things were handled (collecting evidence) and photos.

Not every court believes that AK and RS are in fact guilty. Even though Hellman was annulled does not mean that his opinion, as a judge, is to be completely discounted as someone (court) that believes they are innocent.

Showing what Amanda said does not show evidence of tampering or manipulation. It shows that she only paid attention to the spots of blood in the bathroom after taking a shower.

MOO
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bbm

How do we know what evidence was tampered or manipulated, if if was tampered with and manipulated with?
 
TorisMom003 said:
So now we just assume that Amanda had a past of playing pranks involving knives. I suppose this makes it easier to believe the worst in her. But let's forget the fact that Rudy has clearly shown his character from his past with his use of knives and violence towards women. Sometimes I can't help but have my mouth drop open in disbelief at what is believed and what is ignored.

MOO
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bbm

What prior violence with women?

Please show me some proof of his prior violence with women.

Thanks.

Also, you assumed that Amanda's prank did not involve knives, so why is it wrong for me to question whether there were knives involved or not?
 
quesarita said:
And if it was Amanda and not Meredith who was raped and murdered, the same standard would apply. To go right from being in the same room with mutual friends one time, to plotting an elaborate break-in and coverup together, is not a logical stretch. There has to be some additional relationship between the 3.

Amanda did mention Rudy to the police as someone who had been to the cottage (downstairs) but did not know his name.
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Ah, I see, so because she didn't mention him by name at the police station, that means that there is no way that they could have all 3 been involved together in Meredith's murder. Is this also an example of circular reasoning?

Yes, and also I would expect anyone who committed a murder with someone else to not want to mention their name to police. Just, you know, "that guy" will suffice.
 
aa9511 said:
Ah, I see, so because she didn't mention him by name at the police station, that means that there is no way that they could have all 3 been involved together in Meredith's murder. Is this also an example of circular reasoning?

Yes, and also I would expect anyone who committed a murder with someone else to not want to mention their name to police. Just, you know, "that guy" will suffice.
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It's a statement of fact. You're creating the illusion of circular reasoning with your question. If you have some proof of a relationship between the 3 of them, or Rudy with either of the 2 of them, please provide it.
 
aa9511 said:
You never answered my question. Because Rudy's bloody clothes were not found, does that mean he was naked when he committed the murder?
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I understand you admit there is no evidence of staging the rape.
 
aa9511 said:
bbm

How do we know what evidence was tampered or manipulated, if if was tampered with and manipulated with?
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aa9511 said:
Au contraire - there is evidence of tampering and manipulating.
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Is this an example of "circular reasoning"? How can it be both? How can there evidence of tampering and manipulation yet at the same time we won't know what was tampered and manipulated because there would be no evidence of it? Shouldn't it be one or the other? Or is this to try to confuse and deflect?

And to answer the question about Rudy and his violence towards women I offer this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/297...er-trial-Rudy-Guede-was-violent-to-women.html

ETA: I think the following is my favorite part of the above article.

"Guede has previously complained that he has been falsely accused of being a drug dealer, a drug user and a criminal, and that instead he led a “tranquil and serene” life."
 
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