17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #15

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m00c0w said:
That is hearsay and is not admissible in court. He was not there that night, but the camera that recorded the video showing the yellow tarp covering a body-like object was. Did you know that yellow tarps are routinely used by LE to cover bodies? I may have over-exaggerated with respect to certainty, but it's more likely that what is in that video is the body in its actual position than someone who was not there that night knows where it was located. JMO
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Mr. Martin said LE showed him where TM's body was lying on the ground. Why would LE lie to him? It's not hearsay if the officer showing him was there that night. jmo
 
IMO Seeing how quickly this has become a racial issue instead of just a sloppy police investigation racial tensions must be very high in FL.IMO When TM decided to confront GZ saying Whats your problem or Why are you following me as per TM GF Perhaps TM felt he was being singled out because he was AA and that led to him punching GZ.JMO.

Here in NJ there was a white officer sitting in his patrol car,he asked an AA 19 yr old to his car and asked what's up he knew him,AA 18 or 19 yr old pulled out his gun and blasted the officer.The officer did not have a chance to even draw his gun.No one ever turned it into a racial bias killing.Not the police ,not the officers family.
 
vlpate said:
The homeowners chose a "gated" community, and they chose it for a reason. I'd find this much more odd in a regular neighborhood, but not a gated community.
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The fact that people who chose to live in a "gated" community are going to face major lawsuits is somewhat karmic, in my opinion.
 
ThoughtFox said:
I would love to see this list of "regulars" or "residents" that everyone talks about.

No one has a right to follow someone just because they are new to a neighborhood. That's not really what Neighborhood Watch is for, imo.

We know there were people in the neighborhood who belonged there but were unknown to George Zimmerman and his wife. Trayvon is a good example because he was indeed living there and had every right to be there.

George didn't think Trayvon was a regular according to his own belief in who "belonged" and who didn't "belong." Clearly his isn't the only point of view in this case, it's just the only one on the 911 tapes. George had his own opinions about who was an in-group and who was an out-group in that community, and frankly I don't think it had anything to do with reality. :cow:
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Trayvon lived in Miami with his mom and arrived the day before the incident. So he was a visitor, not a resident. he had 10 day time out from school, and his father had planned to spend some time with the boy and straighten him out. Just because his Dad lived with his GF at this community does not mean it was home to Travon.

I love this posts that say things as if they are facts.
So to GZ he looked like a new person in the area.
GZ did not follow him because he is new. GZ suspected him for some reason
that is why he followed him.

I wish they spoke during their FIRST encounter when GZ was still in the Car.
IF EITHER ONE SPOKE instead of dodging each other.
I am visiting my Dad, Or I am the neighborhood watchman.
:(
 
lillygator said:
you don't have a right to follow a suspicious looking person in your neighborhood? TM did not live there. I know the normal happenings of my neighborhood and unless you live there or are lost, ours is a out of the way place to be. I don't think for one second this is about race, he saw someone in a hoodie, slinking about in the rain - I think he would have confronted the person no matter the color.
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http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article1221799.ece
~In 2004, Engle Homes began construction on 263 two-story townhouses, with upstairs porches and covered back patios and plenty of green space.~

~By the time Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin, 40 properties inside the gate were empty and more than half of the residents were renters~

~Trayvon Martin lived with his dad, who resides in the Miami area, and had visited his dad's girlfriend at the Retreat several times before. The kids in the neighborhood always looked forward to playing football with him. But to George Zimmerman, he was a stranger.~

RBBM - I don't understand the comment about TM did not live there? He was an invited guest of his father's fiancee.

With that many condos in the complex, I don't find it strange that GZ may not have seen TM on any of his prior visits or know every single person, who lived or was staying in one of the units.

The article also has some comments from a witness's mom and a few other residents.
 
songline said:
Trayvon lived in Miami with his mom and arrived the day before the incident. So he was a visitor, not a resident. he had 10 day time out from school, and his father had planned to spend some time with the boy and straighten him out. Just because his Dad lived with his GF at this community does not mean it was home to Travon.

I love this posts that say things as if they are facts.
So to GZ he looked like a new person in the area.
GZ did not follow him because he is new. GZ suspected him for some reason
that is why he followed him.

I wish they spoke during their FIRST encounter when GZ was still in the Car.
IF EITHER ONE SPOKE instead of dodging each other.
I am visiting my Dad, Or I am the neighborhood watchman.
:(
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Where are you getting that Trayvon and Zimmerman had more than one encounter that night?
 
TorisMom003 said:
According to the SPD following someone and asking them questions is considered stalking and can result in an arrest. This is exactly what Zimmerman did to Trayvon. If this law applies to any SPD employees then I certainly hope that it also applies to any person that is also being stalked.

MOO
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If it's a crime then the SYG would not apply and neither would self defense. Wonder how many people have thought about someone following them, in the dark...no flashlight, no dog...... is my life in danger? Why is he following me? People seem to think he should have been running but the greatest fear for me would be to run and get tackled. I think I would try to hide, or find someone who was home to open the door for me. The worst fear would come if he found me. jmo
 
songline said:
Trayvon lived in Miami with his mom and arrived the day before the incident. So he was a visitor, not a resident. he had 10 day time out from school, and his father had planned to spend some time with the boy and straighten him out. Just because his Dad lived with his GF at this community does not mean it was home to Travon.

I love this posts that say things as if they are facts.
So to GZ he looked like a new person in the area.
GZ did not follow him because he is new. GZ suspected him for some reason
that is why he followed him.

I wish they spoke during their FIRST encounter when GZ was still in the Car.
IF EITHER ONE SPOKE instead of dodging each other.
I am visiting my Dad, Or I am the neighborhood watchman.
:(
Click to expand...

I wish that as well. Assumptions are dangerous and wrong. GZ judged Trayvon 100% on appearance alone.
 
songline said:
Trayvon lived in Miami with his mom and arrived the day before the incident. So he was a visitor, not a resident. he had 10 day time out from school, and his father had planned to spend some time with the boy and straighten him out. Just because his Dad lived with his GF at this community does not mean it was home to Travon.

I love this posts that say things as if they are facts.
So to GZ he looked like a new person in the area.
GZ did not follow him because he is new. GZ suspected him for some reason
that is why he followed him.

I wish they spoke during their FIRST encounter when GZ was still in the Car.
IF EITHER ONE SPOKE instead of dodging each other.
I am visiting my Dad, Or I am the neighborhood watchman.
:(
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--trayvon's dad also lives in miami gardens, they were both visiting sanford that weekend.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/us/trayvon-martin-shooting-prompts-a-review-of-ideals.html

For more than two years now, Trayvon&#8217;s father, Tracy Martin, a truck driver from Miami, had been dating Brandy Green, a juvenile detention officer in Orlando. She lived at the Retreat with her 14-year-old son, <modsnip> and it was not uncommon for the Martins to drive up from Miami for overnight visits.
 
songline said:
Trayvon lived in Miami with his mom and arrived the day before the incident. So he was a visitor, not a resident. he had 10 day time out from school, and his father had planned to spend some time with the boy and straighten him out. Just because his Dad lived with his GF at this community does not mean it was home to Travon.

I love this posts that say things as if they are facts.
So to GZ he looked like a new person in the area.
GZ did not follow him because he is new. GZ suspected him for some reason
that is why he followed him.

I wish they spoke during their FIRST encounter when GZ was still in the Car.
IF EITHER ONE SPOKE instead of dodging each other.
I am visiting my Dad, Or I am the neighborhood watchman.
:(
Click to expand...

Is this a fact? I don't remember reading it. jmo
 
w1df10wr said:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article1221799.ece
~In 2004, Engle Homes began construction on 263 two-story townhouses, with upstairs porches and covered back patios and plenty of green space.~

~By the time Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin, 40 properties inside the gate were empty and more than half of the residents were renters~

~Trayvon Martin lived with his dad, who resides in the Miami area, and had visited his dad's girlfriend at the Retreat several times before. The kids in the neighborhood always looked forward to playing football with him. But to George Zimmerman, he was a stranger.~

RBBM - I don't understand the comment about TM did not live there? He was an invited guest of his father's fiancee.

With that many condos in the complex, I don't find it strange that GZ may not have seen TM on any of his prior visits or know every single person, who lived or was staying in one of the units.

The article also has some comments from a witness's mom and a few other residents.
Click to expand...

what is to understand? he was not living there, he was on a 10 day school suspension and was staying at the fathers fiances house during that time period.
I would think someone who acts as a watchman would always be looking out and around his complex.
 
Concerned Papa said:
Watch the video. He said Law Enforcement officers had taken the time to show him where the body of his son was found. I can only imagine that pain.

This isn't a court of law, this is a discussion forum. No matter what the unknown elements of this case may be, I doubt seriously there would be any question as to where Trayvon Martin's body was located.

You stick with the yellow tarp with something under it angle. I'll ride it out with a man who has lost his son knowing EXACTLY where he died.
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So you're saying that Zimmerman would have had his back all the way on the concrete? Or that witnesses that were there that night were mistaken? Or am I missing something? There's another picture that also shows the yellow-tarped body-shaped object.

Screen Shot 2012-04-02 at 4.43.31 PM.png
 
GZ may well have seen TM on prior visits!
 
It is always a tragedy when parents lose a child ,no matter the age.Looking at facts the few we have,we have to try to keep emotions out of our thinking. I know it is easier said then done because IMO most of us here have lost loved ones, many before their time and at the hands of others.JMO
 
lillygator said:
what is to understand? he was not living there, he was on a 10 day school suspension and was staying at the fathers fiances house during that time period.
I would think someone who acts as a watchman would always be looking out and around his complex.
Click to expand...

NWP do not have watchmen. GZ was not a watchman and the HOA has no formal security system. He had no obligation to watch anyone and certainly no more than anyone else. jmo
 
LambChop said:
If it's a crime then the SYG would not apply and neither would self defense. Wonder how many people have thought about someone following them, in the dark...no flashlight, no dog...... is my life in danger? Why is he following me? People seem to think he should have been running but the greatest fear for me would be to run and get tackled. I think I would try to hide, or find someone who was home to open the door for me. The worst fear would come if he found me. jmo
Click to expand...

The SPD issued a press release letting the media know that they would use the stalking law to arrest anyone that followed employees and asked them questions. This can be found on the website below in my signiture line. If SPD can threaten the media with this law then why is it not being used against Zimmerman?
 
LambChop said:
Mr. Martin said LE showed him where TM's body was lying on the ground. Why would LE lie to him? It's not hearsay if the officer showing him was there that night. jmo
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Yes, that is the very definition of hearsay. The police may have simply been mistaken. They seem to flub everything else up in everyone else's eyes, why would this be the one immaculate item?
 
TonyGatto said:
The fact that people who chose to live in a "gated" community are going to face major lawsuits is somewhat karmic, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Especially since Trayvon had every right to be in that gated community as a guest of one of the residents.

JMHO
 
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