17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #18

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vlpate said:
Given the fact that TM took off running, and had a two minute head start on GZ - why do you think TM didn't go home in those two minutes?
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Listen to the Zimmerman's call to the police. TM starts running when he is near GZ's truck. GZ gets out of his truck and starts running after him perhaps 10 seconds later. TM didn't have a two minute lead on GZ.
 
Isabelle said:
The article didn't say what Sunday that happened.??
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--in the video @ link, she says 'earlier this week' and 'last weekend'...(odd we never heard about this at the time.)
 
It was also NBA AllStar Game week, and the game was at AMWAY Arena, in Orlando. Big big thing.


LambChop said:
Plus it's right outside of Orlando and people visit that area to vacation at Disney all year round. Some parents don't aways wait until holidays, vacations to visit area family members when they want to visit DisneyWorld. jmo
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Desdemona said:
(BBM)

It appears that who confronted whom first may indeed be relevant according to the law.
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It is the essence of the whole case. Obviously, Zimmerman confronted Martin because he stopped his vehicle and got out while carrying a loaded weapon that was used to kill Martin.

I also strongly believe that the hype, rhetoric, threats, hysteria, opportunism, fomenting of racial divisiveness, shameless media free-for-all, and the public hatefest, does nothing to honor TM's life or memory. That should not have happened, either, IMO.

What a shame it all is. :cry:
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If this goes to a jury, the probability of a fair and reasoned verdict has been diminshed considerably by the media which has whipped up emotions and prejudices to a frenzy and facts be damned.
 
What in the world kind of call would bring out 15 police officers and a helicopter? If it was a bomb threat, the SWAT team would have shown up and the surrounding apartments would have been evacuating. Same thing with any kind of hostage situation... the neighbors would have been evacuated?

I thought the police knew George Zimmerman had moved out and was in hiding?

Something smells bad!

MOO
 
BBM Exactly how many people has Zimmerman shot in his life? Why would you think he has a propensity to shoot people? As far as I know he has only shot one, and that was when he was in fear of his life.

LambChop said:
BBM: I wonder why he didn't shoot her? lol I think all we have to do is look at his past history and figure out whether or not we believe this story or just take it with a grain of salt. It is pretty easy for LE to check and we have never heard GZ's attorney deny this story is not true. jmo
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Concerned Papa said:
Just out of curiosity, why do you think that ambulance vid you posted is incorrect as to the body location?
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For the following reasons: #1. Tracy Martin showed in that TV thing where the police had told him and showed him where the body was. #2. (And, I said this before) MarinadeDave visited the site, took and shared some great photographs and talked with people who live there who seemed to know where the body was and pointed it out to him, and #3. The address in the ambulance audio, I believe it was the address that was given by either the first caller to 911 about the incident? (Maybe Mary was the first caller? or the most lucid?) or for some reason it was the address the dispatcher used to direct the ambulance. I don't know that it necessarily indicated that the body was located exactly at that address. But that by going to that address, the ambulance/s would be able to get to the body/ies.

It is obvious in at least one of the 911 calls, that the dispatcher is not aware of the 'layout' of the Retreat, regarding for instance the common backyards with the sidewalk down the middle. And, I think that caused some confusion. IMO.

Anyhow, thats what I am thinking.
 
Footwarrior said:
Listen to the Zimmerman's call to the police. TM starts running when he is near GZ's truck. GZ gets out of his truck and starts running after him perhaps 10 seconds later. TM didn't have a two minute lead on GZ.
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Two minutes after TM ran, GZ did not know where he was. I have listened to the 911 call several times and there's nothing to indicate GZ was running for those two minutes.
 
I believe none of what you stated is fact; it's all your opinion, unless you have access to a source that state it as fact.


Omori said:
Zimmerman is guilty--period. We don't need to look at past histories or charges of racism--it's all irrelevant. The boy was walking home from the store talking to his girlfriend on his cell phone. That much has been verified. Ergo, he should not be dead. There can be no justification for it. The only way it could haver happened is that Zimmerman confronted the individual. Whether Martin attacked him first is irrelevant. So what if he did? Zimmerman confronted him--there is NO OTHER WAY it could have happened. He is therefore guilty. It's really that simple.
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Wonder what GZ's plans for Easter Sunday include. I know what Trayvon's family will feel. There will be something really big missing for them, it will be painful; they will feel as if they have fallen into a black hole.
 
Concerned Papa said:
BBM

I don't know anything about where Zimmerman lived other than what it shows here:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...eading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html

but I can tell you that if the NY Times is correct on Zimmerman's residence, Taaffe does live next door to him.
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According to the street number GZ gave LE on his phone call about TM, and according to the Seminole County Property Appraiser's records, GZ and FT live most of a block apart, not next door to each other. There was a typo on the (non)burglary report of FT's place that made it seem as though they lived next door, but I trust the records from the Property Appraiser more than I trust a police report from SPD.

No links provided since the information is/was readily accessible but sleuthing neighbors and friends is not acceptable - so IMO, JMO, etc.
 
rossva said:
BBM Exactly how many people has Zimmerman shot in his life? Why would you think he has a propensity to shoot people? As far as I know he has only shot one, and that was when he was in fear of his life.
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And it seems that one was way too many.
 
I don't hate GZ either.
I hate that a 17 year old child can't walk down a street without being judged.
I hate the tragedy that occurred because of it.
 
It's not the person, it's the act.
 
katydid23 said:
Growing up and working with my defense attorney dad taught me that when a defendant is made public, there can be all kinds of 'evidence' that comes out. And it is not always accurate as a way to gauge who the person really is. Maybe he is a violent, cold hearted monster. But so far, I am not convinced of that.

Just because ONE former co-worker tells a story about him being fired, it does not mean it went down that way exactly.
And if he really did THROW a drunk woman cross the room, then imo, he would have been arrested and or sued by someone.

The same with the RO's from the ex girlfriend. It looks to me like it was a two way volatile relationship. I don't automatically assume that he was the violent one and she was the totally innocent victim. I saw a lot of cases like this when my dad defended clients. It is quite often a two way street.

Not always, but if it is a very violent abusive husband then you often end up with women going for medical treatment and the men being arrested. We have no evidence of that here. I think they both drank and were both immature and jealous.

I BELIEVE HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED FOR MANSLAUGHTER ON THE FIRST NIGHT. But I also believe that he is being unfairly painted as a violent, cold blooded, premeditated killer. And so I am responding in defense of him in that way only.
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I don't see him as violent or cold blooded, nor do I think it was premeditated. I think he's the sort of person that wouldn't pass a psychological screening for the military or the police department. I see him as someone who, by his own actions, escalated a situation out of control and in the end, a young man was dead. I don't believe he can justify it, regardless of the laws.

I agree he should have been arrested the first night and that he should be in custody now. There is no way this will end well and satisfy everyone at this point. :twocents:
 
rossva said:
I believe none of what you stated is fact; it's all your opinion, unless you have access to a source that state it as fact.
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I have stated nothing but the facts of the case and eliminated everything else that is merely subjective.

Fact 1: Trayvon Martin was walking home from a store and was talking to his girlfriend on his cell phone. The phone records were checked and this was found to be the case. Do you have any information to the contrary?

Fact 2: George Zimmerman was driving in his vehicle when he spotted Trayvon Martin. He phoned the police and was told not to continue following the suspect. Do you have any information to the contrary?

Fact 3: George Zimmerman was armed with a loaded weapon. Trayvon Martin was unarmed. Do you have ay information to the contrary?

Fact 4: George Zimmerman stopped and exited his vehicle carrying a loaded weapon. Do you have any information to the contrary?

Fact 5: There was a confrontation between Zimmerman and Martin during the course of which Zimmerman killed Martin with said loaded weapon. Do you have any information to the contrary?

Conclusion: George Zimmerman chose to confront Trayvon Martin and killed him. Do you any information to the contrary?
 
Working on a new thread, will be closing this one in a few...

Ima
 
Footwarrior said:
Listen to the Zimmerman's call to the police. TM starts running when he is near GZ's truck. GZ gets out of his truck and starts running after him perhaps 10 seconds later. TM didn't have a two minute lead on GZ.
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No there is more slack in the timeline, especially if we take the girlfriend's call times into account. Here is part of the timeline I assembled from GZ's phone call (times from my audio program), the dispatcher log from the SPD, the ABC News shots of TM's girlfrind's call, and the 911 call with the gunshot.

02:06:65 S** he's running.
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
02:09:47 (Car door alarm?)
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood. (car door slam)
02:14:18
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance…******ing (unintelligible)
02:22:36
19:11:59 subj now running towards back entrance of complex
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah (wind noises)
02:25:20
19:12:00 Trayvon receives call from girlfriend
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Ok
Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name?
Zimmerman: George…He ran. (wind noises continue)
02:38:14
(Wind noises stop some time in here)
Dispatcher: Alright George what's your last name?
02:41:70 (odd clicking noise - gun?)
Zimmerman: Zimmerman
Dispatcher: And George what's the phone number you're calling from?
Zimmerman: (redacted)
Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate,
03:04:07 (three odd clicking noises under the word gate)
tell them to go straight past the club house,
03:07:40 (three odd clicking noises, louder)
and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, they’ll see my truck... (unintelligible)
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
Zimmerman: I don’t know, it’s a cut through so I don’t know the address.
Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area?
Zimmerman: Yeah, I...(unintelligible)
Dispatcher: What’s your apartment number?
Zimmerman: It’s a home it’s 1950, oh crap I don’t want to give it all out, I don’t know where this kid is.
Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?
19:13:12
Zimmerman: Yeah that’s fine.
Dispatcher: Alright George, I’ll let them know to meet you around there okay?
Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?
Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that’s no problem.
Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it?
Dispatcher: Yeah I got it (redacted by Mother Jones)
Zimmerman: Yeah you got it.
Dispatcher: Okay no problem, I’ll let them know to call you when you’re in the area.
Zimmerman: Thanks.
Dispatcher: You’re welcome.
04:11:00 (recording of call ends)
19:13:41 Compl new req leo 1045 before 1056
19:16:00 Time approximate - call with girlfriend ends after she hears interchange with Trayvon and unknown follower
19:16:00 Call 3 begins
19:16:44:47 GUNSHOT
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If the last call from the girlfriend is accurate, it began AFTER Trayvon ran. Then there were four minutes when Trayvon was talking to her. GZ got off the phone with SPD about 19:13:40, leaving 2 minutes and twenty seconds that we don't know where he was. That gets us to 19:16 when the girlfriend's call is cut off and the 911 calls began to come into the SPD.

We know where they both were for at least that last 40+ seconds when we can hear the screaming on the 911 call (recording labeled Call 3 from the Sanford web site that has now been removed.).

I'm at the point where to me it does not matter who was chasing whom, who initiated the physical confrontation or threw the first blow - if there were any blows. To me, that last forty seconds of Trayvon begging for his life and screaming for help shows a period when Trayvon was NOT attacking GZ. During that forty seconds GZ made the choice to shoot that teenager. If I were on a jury, that forty second would prove to me that this was murder.

IMO, JMO, etc.
 
I wonder if there is even enough evidence collected for a conviction


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