2010.06.01 - Personal Experience at the Hearing

Spangle said:

Anyone can attend. Several of the members here have attended.

Personally, I find it easier to just watch it on TV. Then drive to down town Orlando, find and pay for parking. Go through security, etc. It would take me at least 1 hr to get there on a good day. The extra would make it even longer. And I'm not a morning person... LOL!

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Honestly, I am very surprised that it isn't packed all the time--with the amount of interest there has been! You'd think there would be a ton of people there for every hearing. Thanks for letting me know. I am always thinking about going to a trial or a hearing here in Portland--but I never get around to it..maybe for the same reason--parking can be problematic.

Mrs G Norris said:

Could Baez be wanting to send in a psychologist to assess Casey for diminished responsibility for the penalty phase? Just a thought.

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is that the same thing as diminished capacity? I have been wondering about that

TIA for any response(s)

affinity said:

Honestly, I am very surprised that it isn't packed all the time--with the amount of interest there has been! You'd think there would be a ton of people there for every hearing. Thanks for letting me know. I am always thinking about going to a trial or a hearing here in Portland--but I never get around to it..maybe for the same reason--parking can be problematic.

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There has been talk on the threads of the last couple of hearings re the lack of crowds at these hearings. I think it may have been LittleMissLegal who quoted a reporter as saying to the people of Orlando this is "old" news and not many people are interested in it anymore.

Maybe when the trial actually starts there will be more interest in it again. I think for those of us at WS who follow every move, this seems hard to believe that anyone in Orlando is bored with it all.

But anyone can go to a hearing, just not many choose to do so. I believe there are at least three WSers who go to every hearing.

rhornsby said:

I was sitting directly behind Cindy Anthony. She never used a cell phone or even looked at one that I noticed. She was mostly speaking to herself in agreement when Mason or Baez made a good point. She seemed genuinely concerned about her daughter and frustrated by the constant denials on issues that the defense seemed to be on the right side of.

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Hey, Richard...good to see you on here again.

I'm just wondering about the statement you made about the "constant denials on issues that the defense seemed to be on the right side of".....might be taking this statement the wrong way, but are you implying what the defense was asking for was "right"...basically saying they should have NOT been denied?? Or are you just saying they were located on the "right side" of the courtroom??

Thanks....could be just foggy headed today...and this may be a "duh" question...LOL

rhornsby said:

I was sitting directly behind Cindy Anthony. She never used a cell phone or even looked at one that I noticed. She was mostly speaking to herself in agreement when Mason or Baez made a good point. She seemed genuinely concerned about her daughter and frustrated by the constant denials on issues that the defense seemed to be on the right side of.

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Could you be more specific about the issues the defense seemed to be on the right side of?
Because I didn't hear anything they said that was new or made sense.

logicalgirl said:

Could you be more specific about the issues the defense seemed to be on the right side of?
Because I didn't hear anything they said that was new or made sense.

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Forget that, I wanna know more about CA talking to herself...I get it if she talked to herself in the beginning of this (at the bond hearing she acted like a 3rd grader), but can't she get it together by now? It's like a sarcastic child that has to get the last word, only she has to do it quietly.
Amil, was this something you noticed from where you sat as well? Is it obvious she is throwing a hissy fit in her head?
If you and RHornsby could see it (not that Richard characterized it as I did above), perhaps the jury could catch a glimpse of this behavior...and if they hear GA's account of not being able to shut CA up even via a hand over the mouth, if the state digs at CA's eagerness to twist stories and shift blame, highlights her media antics, while she sits there demeaning the process, the jury is going to make a nasty tie back to KC's behavior.
Maybe AL should tape this activity to use in penalty phase, show that CA is a control freak that won't stop judging, nagging and criticizing until she makes sure her :twocents: is the law of the land.

affinity said:

I have a question--(I asked Marinade Dave once on his blog--he didn't answer me).
I want to know who gets to attend hearings. How is it determined? Certainly, if they allowed anyone who was interested in there would be standing room only (correct?), but often there really aren't that many people in the gallery. Why is that? If I were in Florida and I wanted to attend the hearing..what would I need to do?

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Anyone can attend the hearings. Since the case is now with Judge Perry, all of the hearings will be held in Courtroom 23 (Link), which is the largest courtroom. Not to mention that most of the people attending are media and until this thing goes to trial, get little public attention (consider that for an average trial, few unrelated people ever watch).

So to answer your hearing, if you were in Florida and wanted to attend, all you would need to do is show up.

Just Jayla said:

Forget that, I wanna know more about CA talking to herself...I get it if she talked to herself in the beginning of this (at the bond hearing she acted like a 3rd grader), but can't she get it together by now? It's like a sarcastic child that has to get the last word, only she has to do it quietly.
Amil, was this something you noticed from where you sat as well? Is it obvious she is throwing a hissy fit in her head?
If you and RHornsby could see it (not that Richard characterized it as I did above), perhaps the jury could catch a glimpse of this behavior...and if they hear GA's account of not being able to shut CA up even via a hand over the mouth, if the state digs at CA's eagerness to twist stories and shift blame, highlights her media antics, while she sits there demeaning the process, the jury is going to make a nasty tie back to KC's behavior.
Maybe AL should tape this activity to use in penalty phase, show that CA is a control freak that won't stop judging, nagging and criticizing until she makes sure her :twocents: is the law of the land.

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Seriously?

What is she supposed to do, jump up and down in agreement with the State as she watches her daughter's bumbling attorneys lose everything. I was muttering to myself as well when I thought the wrong rulings were made, or good points were raised. This is called human nature and conduct any emotionally invested person engages in when they are watching something, whether it be a political debate, a news interview, or a hearing in your daughter's murder case.

logicalgirl said:

Could you be more specific about the issues the defense seemed to be on the right side of?
Because I didn't hear anything they said that was new or made sense.

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They were on the right side of redacting the expert names, public does not need to know immediately who visited.

I agree that Dr. Vass should be required to reveal Decomp Database prior to deposing.

I think there was something else, but I forgot.

rhornsby said:

They were on the right side of redacting the expert names, public does not need to know immediately who visited.

I agree that Dr. Vass should be required to reveal Decomp Database prior to deposing.

I think there was something else, but I forgot.

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Recap for ya':

Casey Anthony Still Faces Death Penalty
Tuesday, June 01, 2010 4:17:49 PM
"Snip"
Reported by Jacqueline Fell and Mark Jenkins

ORLANDO -- Judge Belvin Perry said the death penalty will still stand.


Live Updates
•4:02 p.m. - Motions are being heard centering the Oakridge Laboratory, the "Body Farm" Jose Baez said it's a science experiment. State says it's novice. Judge Perry appears to want Baez to do deposition of the doctors first.
•3:15 p.m. - Judge denies motion concerning death penalty.
•3:04 p.m. - Strickland’s ruling still stands regarding George Anthony. Defense will not get grand jury testimony of George Anthony.
•2:54 p.m. - Judge Perry rules Judge Stan Strickland's ruling on the Joe Jordan motion will stand.
•2:44 p.m. - Talking about motions by disqualified judge, specifically Joe Jordan recording. Mason says the tape could show someone else dumped remains. Casey was in jail when remains were found. Mason says Jordan's testimony could create reasonable doubt
•2:33 p.m. - Judge Belvin Perry will take the issue of the visitor log under advisement. A ruling is expected sometime next week.
•2:22 p.m. - Orange County corrections says they have to follow public records law. Officials said there is no provision for what defense is asking for. There are 94 other inmates charged with capital murder. They said they can't play favorites.
•2:07 p.m. - Judge just met privately with state and defense. Then attorney Jose Baez came out and met privately with Brad Conway and Cindy Anthony. George Anthony is not in the courtroom
•2:07 p.m. - Casey Anthony was not in the courtroom. Court officials said she suffered a fall and is receiving medical attention. Her presence was waived

affinity said:

Honestly, I am very surprised that it isn't packed all the time--with the amount of interest there has been! You'd think there would be a ton of people there for every hearing. Thanks for letting me know. I am always thinking about going to a trial or a hearing here in Portland--but I never get around to it..maybe for the same reason--parking can be problematic.

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Hi Affinity
BBM
We are interested here on WS...but other than the media reporting on the developments of the case and a few of our wonderful WS members who live in Metro Orlando and wish to attend the hearing IMO I find there isn't much interest in Casey Anthony in our area..

From the beginning my hubby, friends and neighbors had no interest in Casey Anthony, they were only interested and hoped Caylee would be found.

rhornsby said:

Seriously?

What is she supposed to do, jump up and down in agreement with the State as she watches her daughter's bumbling attorneys lose everything. I was muttering to myself as well when I thought the wrong rulings were made, or good points were raised. This is called human nature and conduct any emotionally invested person engages in when they are watching something, whether it be a political debate, a news interview, or a hearing in your daughter's murder case.

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Mr. Hornsby,

The camera caught you at one point and you were bending forward and it looked like you had been shaking your head in disbelief!

"Bumbling attorneys" is so on the mark! I have never been impressed with Baez, I find him passive-aggressive and vindictive in his speech. I was surprised that Lyon and Mason have appeared so inept. In my opinion, they seem more interested in getting their name in print and act at times as if they are already at the penalty phase!

I did not think all of their arguments were unreasonable, but I can see where their sitting around doing very little and spending their time on an obvious fishing expedition with TES (I'm no expert but even I see that strategy) means that there will be times that the breaks don't go their way. I still feel the Judge is bending over backwards for the defense, which is fine, less for appeal.

What I find most puzzling is it appears that Baez & Co do not seem to have retained expert witnesses yet. As the Judge pointed out, shouldn't a lot of work been completed by now? Where did all of that money go? They have thrown out theories but never seem to be able to produce evidence to back them up. I think they are worried people will find out expert witnesses were not hired until ICA was indigent.

MOO of course.

Amil ..... did you see what the female guard was doing when she went over to the two male guards sitting at the table near the sidebar huddle at the beginning of the Hearing, when they had a sidebar over keeping the name of the visitor private on the jail visitor logs???

The female guard bends over and tells the 2 male guards something.

Then, later the same female guard goes over to the State side of the courtroom and has a bottle of water in her hand.

Was this female guard telling people in the audience to leave because of a cell phone we heard go off? Or because they were chewing gum? Or what was the female guard doing over there on that side of the courtroom?

Do you, Amil, or anyone know who the man was who was sitting with the Prosecutors - the man with the crew cut?

rhornsby said:

They were on the right side of redacting the expert names, public does not need to know immediately who visited.

I agree that Dr. Vass should be required to reveal Decomp Database prior to deposing.

I think there was something else, but I forgot.

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I can see that you might agree with redacting expert names but can the Court actually do that if the Jails and the Courts are two separate entities as the OC attorney was arguing?

And what if the Decomp database is a newly patented method - would Dr. Vass still be required to reveal specifically how it works? Rather than just the scientific research for it which seems to be out there anyway? At least in scientific journals it is.

I don't think there was a third thing for you to forget.:dance:

Curious with you watching "bumbling"......do you wish you were defending this case?

The people sitting behind the defense attorneys may have been paralegals or interns, I'm not sure. I don't think I have ever seen CA use a cell phone or blackberry in court, but I'll keep a look out. I usually have a good view of her. No one I know follows this case and they are quite surprised when I mention my interest in it to them. The majority of courtroom seats are taken by media employees. I don't know who the state attorney with the crew cut was. I found CA constantly nodding her head with each defense argument irritating. However, the people sitting behind me were talking to themselves as well. Everyone else in the courtroom was quiet and no one else was bobbing their head or chatting to themselves.

ThinkTank said:

Amil ..... did you see what the female guard was doing when she went over to the two male guards sitting at the table near the sidebar huddle at the beginning of the Hearing, when they had a sidebar over keeping the name of the visitor private on the jail visitor logs???

The female guard bends over and tells the 2 male guards something.

Then, later the same female guard goes over to the State side of the courtroom and has a bottle of water in her hand.

Was this female guard telling people in the audience to leave because of a cell phone we heard go off? Or because they were chewing gum? Or what was the female guard doing over there on that side of the courtroom?

Do you, Amil, or anyone know who the man was who was sitting with the Prosecutors - the man with the crew cut?

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No one was asked to leave due to a cell phone. When one went off, the woman left the room immediately. Someone was asked to leave temporarily and I think it was a gum chewing incident.

rhornsby said:

Seriously?

What is she supposed to do, jump up and down in agreement with the State as she watches her daughter's bumbling attorneys lose everything. I was muttering to myself as well when I thought the wrong rulings were made, or good points were raised. This is called human nature and conduct any emotionally invested person engages in when they are watching something, whether it be a political debate, a news interview, or a hearing in your daughter's murder case.

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Because I don't think she should display one extreme behavior does not mean I would expect her to exhibit the opposite extreme of giving shout-outs to LDB. I know that CA does not agree with the people seeking justice for Caylee.

IMO, what CA is doing is meant to be flagrant and obnoxious. This is why I asked Amil if this could be heard from another seating area as it clearly has been at past hearings. If it were one instance of high emotion, I would agree with what you write-CA as her reputation precedes her? She threw decorum out the window a while back and to me this is just another showing. She was loud enough for you to hear her. That's a bit more than muttering to herself. That's sass.

She knows what she is doing-she knows the cameras are on, she knows she is affecting GA and her friends that are there, she wants everyone to know she is going to argue for KC until the end. She says this stuff loud enough for someone else to hear and validate her, but without the judge hearing her.

Perhaps she should be emotionally invested in justice for Caylee-After all, it was CA who told Yuri Melich that KC had to have help...but then she told us it was pizza in the trunk, then that KC was mother of the year, in spite of her threats to seek custody of Caylee from same mother of the year.

I understand you do not feel that way about CA, so I qualified my opinion in the last post-But I do feel CA would disrupt this trial outright if she could, just look at her behavior with John Morgan. Her expressions and utterances still reflect the fact that CA doesn't want anyone saying anything (even true, which it all was on Tuesday) if it's not CA approved.

She brought the scrutiny on herself, IMO.

I believe Cindy constantly violates the rules for Courtroom Decorum. (though Judge Perry said in his Order that the rules apply to counsel and anyone seated at counsel table). IMO it should apply to all audience spectators also.

Cindy chomps on "edibles" - either chewing gum or breath lozenges or whatever she wants.
Cindy vigorously shakes her head in disagreement, or yes in agreement and rolls her eyes. The jury should not be allowed to watch her doing this when the trial begins. It is a form of testifying without being cross examined.

It also annoys me (and Prosecutor Linda Drane Burdick) when Mason violates the rule about calling counsel by their surname ... not their first name. Mason loves doing this - it is his way of belittling or demeaning Ms Burdick's position as Prosecutor. Mason called Ms Burdick "Linda" at the last Hearing when he turned and asked "Linda" to confirm that she had not listened to the Joe Jordan illegally recorded tape. Ms. Burdick has corrected Mason in past Hearings and told him to call her by her last name. I believe the Judge needs to address this intentional violation of the rules of courtroom decorum.

Mason and Baez constantly sit at the Defense counsel table and snicker and giggle and make frat boy faces at the State Prosecutors. I wish Judge Perry would watch the videos of Hearings to see for himself the many violations of the rules for courtroom decorum. Judge Perry is too busy during the actual Hearings to catch the violations (the children are "playing" behind the teacher's back).

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/23234284/detail.html
Judge Perry's Order regarding courtroom decorum (7 page order)

Judge Perry ordered April 1, 2010
http://www.ninthcircuit.org/programs-services/court-resource-center/decorum-policy.shtml
Courtroom Decorum Policy

4. Refer to all persons, including witnesses, other counsel and the parties by their surnames and not by their first or given names unless the permission of the Court is sought in advance.

12. Counsel shall admonish all persons at counsel table that/who make gestures, facial expressions, audible comments, or the like, as manifestations of approval or disapproval during the testimony of witnesses, or at any other time, This behavior is/ are strictly/absolutely prohibited.

15. No tobacco use in any form is permitted. No bottles, beverage containers, paper cups or edibles are allowed in the courtroom, except as permitted by the Court. No gum chewing is permitted.

rhornsby said:

They were on the right side of redacting the expert names, public does not need to know immediately who visited.

I agree that Dr. Vass should be required to reveal Decomp Database prior to deposing.

I think there was something else, but I forgot.

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In my opinion Judge Perry always cites case law to support his decisions and always rules fairly, and by the book. If the Defense had made any arguments which could be supported by case law, Judge Perry would have granted the Defense motions.

Judge Perry stated clearly that he had no authority to interfere with the workings of the jail - there is no law allowing him that authority. Even if Judge Perry wanted to redact the expert name(s) from the jail visitor lists (and I personally think the Judge does want to do that), Judge Perry said he had no legal authority to order the jail to do that. Cindy would be disagreeing with LAW - not Judge Perry.

Judge Perry also stated (as did Judge Strickland) that they have no jurisdiction or authority over agencies outside the state of Florida, and the Defense would have to take other legal actions to get any information they want from Oak Ridge Lab/Dr. Vass. Judge Perry has no legal authority to "make" Dr. Vass reveal any of his information to the Defense prior to giving a deposition in the case. Why would Cindy disagree with common sense legal rulings?

IMO Cindy should have more respect for the court proceedings and authority figures, and contain her own emotional gestures. Her daughter is getting a FAIR trial. Let it be!

IMO if Cindy was so concerned about the welfare of her daughter who had been injured, she would be the FIRST visitor to Inmate Casey Anthony as soon as allowed. There would be nothing stopping the concerned mother from visiting her injured daughter, to see for herself how she was, and to express love and concern directly to her daughter (instead of telling the media how concerned she is/was).

rhornsby said:

They were on the right side of redacting the expert names, public does not need to know immediately who visited.

I agree that Dr. Vass should be required to reveal Decomp Database prior to deposing.

I think there was something else, but I forgot.

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BBM

I disagree with your assessment on the first two you listed, but the one I have a problem with is the recording by JJ. Is that maybe what you forgot? (That is, if it was even brought up in this motion hearing. They are all starting to run together in my head, :blushing: especially since they are all beginning to sound alike...)