MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #5

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thenotebook said:
I've wondered how far up the driveway these prints appeared, and where they actually ended. It looks like in this photo there is a police marking tape behind this man at the end of the driveway. (both photos credit to Joy's blog!)

tiretracks.png


The aerial photo shows where on the driveway the tape was (assuming that is the tape and not a shadow??)

Wetterling_Crime_Scene_Aerial_View.jpg


IIRC, the footprints went all the way up to the second light pole? That is quite a ways. I would think they could have gotten some excellent castings of the perps prints as well as the tire casts. I can't believe they weren't able to identify the exact make/year of the tires and put out an alert (which in turn would have supposedly lead to Kevin's car....although I still believe there was a perp vehicle as well).
Click to expand...

I think the top picture of the detective spraying the footprints is looking east as the fenceline is on the north. So there are 2 tapelines: 1 on the east(which DR said he could not get his car through but had to drive on the grass in the ditch) and the other tapeline on the west side of the pavement. You can also see the first pole at the abduction site. That pole is not there today so the tracks/prints were about 40 yards long. It appears to me in the detective picture there are multiple tire tracks and one of the tracks appears to be curved. I agree, one assumes this whole stretch of road would have been analyzed for tracks/prints but it has always bothered me that the detective is creating another set of prints himself.
 
One other thought I've had regarding the detective picture.....it appears there is a semi-circular white line surrounding the detective and the footprints. If a vehicle was used in the abduction, could it be possible that the perp dragged Jacob from the abduction site in the grass, then an accomplice swung the vehicle in a turn to accomodate the perp forcing Jacob into the car. This would mean that footprints would only appear in this one location along the entire 40 yards. As Trackergd stated, the perps and Jacob's footprints are intermingled in what appears to be a struggle.
 
shergal said:
I wasn't thinking your experiment was silly at all, cGorg. Like human mentioned above, it made me think of all the various things sleuthers attempt to re-create in these missing cases to test how something could have happened. And how difficult it would be to explain to cops or neighbors just why you were doing something if someone saw you. That's all.
Click to expand...

aha...it took me awhile. I took your initial 2nd sentence completely opposite of what you meant. Sorry.
 
cGorg said:
One other thought I've had regarding the detective picture.....it appears there is a semi-circular white line surrounding the detective and the footprints. If a vehicle was used in the abduction, could it be possible that the perp dragged Jacob from the abduction site in the grass, then an accomplice swung the vehicle in a turn to accomodate the perp forcing Jacob into the car. This would mean that footprints would only appear in this one location along the entire 40 yards. As Trackergd stated, the perps and Jacob's footprints are intermingled in what appears to be a struggle.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is room on the driveway to turn like that and where are the other set of tires?

And duh! What about the light pole? Was it a LIGHT or a telephone pole?

If a light, there would be plenty of light in that spot.

As far as the tires, they are 1989, not 50-60's. They are probably not bias ply but radial--- the girlfriend's tires.
 
cGorg said:
I think the top picture of the detective spraying the footprints is looking east as the fenceline is on the north. So there are 2 tapelines: 1 on the east(which DR said he could not get his car through but had to drive on the grass in the ditch) and the other tapeline on the west side of the pavement. You can also see the first pole at the abduction site. That pole is not there today so the tracks/prints were about 40 yards long. It appears to me in the detective picture there are multiple tire tracks and one of the tracks appears to be curved. I agree, one assumes this whole stretch of road would have been analyzed for tracks/prints but it has always bothered me that the detective is creating another set of prints himself.
Click to expand...

Yep, definitely facing east. Check out the shadow cast by Mund's body. The driveway runs east and west. The sun is to his back so he has to be facing north, and the camera facing east. Also, I would hope they would not allow a media photographer to be up the driveway the day after the abduction.
 
human said:
I feel a little vindicated in my sleuthing abilities as I thought those tires were really unusual.

Tracker, what do you mean by crepe soles?

I am thinking something like a hush puppy sole? Or work boot?

Not a running shoe?
Click to expand...

Crepe is usually a yellowish soft rubber type sole, many times with a zig zag or strait line pattern. The pattern also appears in inexpensive sneakers "Chukka" boots. Work boots tend to be either vibram lug sole or completely flat sole hard leather. I have seen it one other time on a motorcycle boot.
 
cGorg said:
Trackergd....regarding the tire....I really have no knowledge of tires or tracks so didn't even dare venture a guess. The footprint/tire track picture isn't much to go on so amazed you could see what you've seen. Given your analysis, I'm perplexed as to how LE could abandon the car theory after Kevin came forward? If as you alluded to, Kevin's tracks being elsewhere then maybe they were able to identify his tire tracks and clear them as well as the tracks near Jacob's prints.
Click to expand...

Looking at the picture with the officer in it, it appears there are a lot more tracks and tire prints. I can only work with the one picture I was able to find and manipulate for brightness and contrast. I could not blow it up any larger without loosing focus.

I am perplexed that when someone with the ability to look at the evidence and actually "read it" they are turned away. I am having that occur with another case I am working, and have been for 25 years. LE is just not interested. On some occasions, LE seems to feel that the ordinary citizen is not professional enough to render opinions or be of any help...more of a bother, sorry to say.

I feel that the entire story is all there...like reading a page in a book in prints. All the evidence and the last clue Jacob left for us to find. :(

What worries me more is that everyone from folks looking for Jacob, to LE, to the photographer and locals walked all over the evidence...and too much time has passed to look at all their shoes and sort it out. It happens a lot. Folks just don't know what they are walking on.
 
thenotebook said:
One more thing I just noticed in Joy's blog interview with Kevin...

"Kevin realizes he’s the one who made the tracks and is sure they’ll trace them back to his girlfriend’s car since the tires were brand new and had just been installed at a St. Cloud tire dealer one week earlier. "

Tracker, are you able to tell if the tire prints would be from "new" tires with lots of tread left on them?
Click to expand...

The edges are sharp, but the tread pattern is not deep...or the ground was so dry that the ridges standing up crumbled right away. But I still think looking at the depth of the deeper prints and the tire prints that it could not have been a heavy vehicle. Light pickup, VW or something like that. I have an outlier thought that it could have been a large motorcycle if there is only one set of tire prints and no matching set for the other side. But it's not something I can nail down from what little is in the picture. Huh...I wonder if the deep prints could be boot heels from someone on a large bike... How would they have gotten Jacob to get on and stay there.... Just an odd random thought...
 
human said:
I don't think there is room on the driveway to turn like that and where are the other set of tires?

And duh! What about the light pole? Was it a LIGHT or a telephone pole?

If a light, there would be plenty of light in that spot.

As far as the tires, they are 1989, not 50-60's. They are probably not bias ply but radial--- the girlfriend's tires.
Click to expand...

If you look at my marked up picture and think about tire construction. Up to the late 60's, the internal belts in the tire were wrapped in the direction of the tread, then they started wrapping them in what would become the radial pattern moving into more exotic materials until they started using steel mesh belts. The tire prints in the picture are a tall narrow bias tire as a radial, even an early one would have had very rounded edges as the tires "bulge" more. From what I can see in the picture I posted, they are not radials. The edge is too sharp.
 
Trackergd said:
I am perplexed that when someone with the ability to look at the evidence and actually "read it" they are turned away. I am having that occur with another case I am working, and have been for 25 years. LE is just not interested. On some occasions, LE seems to feel that the ordinary citizen is not professional enough to render opinions or be of any help...more of a bother, sorry to say.
Click to expand...

What about going down other avenues? Maybe contacting the cyber tipline on the NCMEC website, for example? Maybe even media outlets? Someone who could put a little pressure on LE? Does anyone have any other suggestions?
 
Trackergd said:
Looking at the picture with the officer in it, it appears there are a lot more tracks and tire prints. I can only work with the one picture I was able to find and manipulate for brightness and contrast. I could not blow it up any larger without loosing focus.

I am perplexed that when someone with the ability to look at the evidence and actually "read it" they are turned away. I am having that occur with another case I am working, and have been for 25 years. LE is just not interested. On some occasions, LE seems to feel that the ordinary citizen is not professional enough to render opinions or be of any help...more of a bother, sorry to say.

I feel that the entire story is all there...like reading a page in a book in prints. All the evidence and the last clue Jacob left for us to find. :(

What worries me more is that everyone from folks looking for Jacob, to LE, to the photographer and locals walked all over the evidence...and too much time has passed to look at all their shoes and sort it out. It happens a lot. Folks just don't know what they are walking on.
Click to expand...

My heart sank after reading your words. It's sad that someone with your abilities was turned away. I agree that the story was left on the road and that most likely alot of it was obliterated in the hours + days after the abduction.
 
human said:
I don't think there is room on the driveway to turn like that and where are the other set of tires?

And duh! What about the light pole? Was it a LIGHT or a telephone pole?

If a light, there would be plenty of light in that spot.

As far as the tires, they are 1989, not 50-60's. They are probably not bias ply but radial--- the girlfriend's tires.
Click to expand...

Isn't there a tire track shown in a curving line on the pic? My point was if the perp and Jacob were in the ditch then an accomplice in a car would veer out a ways so the perp could walk up the ditch onto the gravel and force him into the vehicle.

Pole...assumed it was a telephone pole....simply alluding to the mixup of the
2nd pole and the distance to the end of the footprints. I doubt the pole had a light on it....have never read anything like that. It is interesting though...wonder why that original first pole was removed yet other poles remain?
 
KeepHopeAlive said:
What about going down other avenues? Maybe contacting the cyber tipline on the NCMEC website, for example? Maybe even media outlets? Someone who could put a little pressure on LE? Does anyone have any other suggestions?
Click to expand...

I like this. With all of the social media tools we have today, we could gather enough force to really get some movement on this case. It's been 24 years. This case is solvable!

With the anniversary coming up, this is a good time to get people talking. Does LE have a full time detective on the case? They need to look at the mountains of evidence they probably have that isn't public and give us something else to go on.
 
One thing that bothers me is that the St Cloud Times website used to have a whole section online dedicated to Jacob's case. I've seen dozens of links to it. However - all the content is gone. The links lead to no where and I can't find the section on their site. Why would they take it down?!? Do they not care anymore or think it's news-worthy??
 
thenotebook said:
I like this. With all of the social media tools we have today, we could gather enough force to really get some movement on this case. It's been 24 years. This case is solvable!

With the anniversary coming up, this is a good time to get people talking. Does LE have a full time detective on the case? They need to look at the mountains of evidence they probably have that isn't public and give us something else to go on.
Click to expand...

(BBM)

Sheriff Sanner, Pam Jensen and Agent McDonald are still active on the case.

"The investigation now lies in the hands of Stearns County Capt. Pam Jensen and Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension Special Agent Ken McDonald.

Both were small-town police officers when Jacob Wetterling disappeared. When they were assigned to the case years later, in the late 1990s, they spent time reading reports and talking to former investigators to get valuable background information.

Information flows freely between Jensen and McDonald. That prevents them from chasing the same lead and allows them to collaborate. They regularly follow leads and talk to those involved."

http://www.sctimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009110180047

However, LE is under no obligation to give "us" any information to go on.
 
thenotebook said:
One thing that bothers me is that the St Cloud Times website used to have a whole section online dedicated to Jacob's case. I've seen dozens of links to it. However - all the content is gone. The links lead to no where and I can't find the section on their site. Why would they take it down?!? Do they not care anymore or think it's news-worthy??
Click to expand...

On the Times website, if you go to this link, http://www.sctimes.com/section/wetterling

...way at the bottom there is a video showing Aaron Larson. If you click play on that, Sheriff Sanner talks about the case, and also Aaron, part of the 911 call, Jerry, Patty, and video of Jacob.

There is a second video which shows Red Grammer who wrote a song for Jacob. (The 2 videos play in a continuous loop.) This page used to contain a lot more info, pics, and maps, but I think it changed when the Gannet corporation (who owns the Times) added the digital option to our paper this year. A lot of older links were broken and not fixed by them yet. I'm sure once the anniversary of the abduction comes up in a few weeks, there will be articles about Jacob again in the Times and then they will probably add in those older links. A lot of the pictures on the various online blogs about Jacob were originally taken from the Times website, so they are still out there.
 
shergal said:
(BBM)

Sheriff Sanner, Pam Jensen and Agent McDonald are still active on the case.

"The investigation now lies in the hands of Stearns County Capt. Pam Jensen and Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension Special Agent Ken McDonald.

Both were small-town police officers when Jacob Wetterling disappeared. When they were assigned to the case years later, in the late 1990s, they spent time reading reports and talking to former investigators to get valuable background information.

Information flows freely between Jensen and McDonald. That prevents them from chasing the same lead and allows them to collaborate. They regularly follow leads and talk to those involved."

http://www.sctimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009110180047

However, LE is under no obligation to give "us" any information to go on.
Click to expand...

I'm well aware that LE is under no obligation to give us information. I'm just frustrated that it's been 24 years and this case still hasn't been solved. I think if they would release even a small breadcrumb of new info, it might generate some new leads. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the last bit of information that was released was back in 2004 when Kevin came forward. Almost 10 years ago!
 
shergal said:
On the Times website, if you go to this link, http://www.sctimes.com/section/wetterling

...way at the bottom there is a video showing Aaron Larson. If you click play on that, Sheriff Sanner talks about the case, and also Aaron, part of the 911 call, Jerry, Patty, and video of Jacob.
Click to expand...

This is weird. When I go to that link I get this error message. I tried using both IE and Firefox.

Error:

error.jpg
 
I don't know if any of you followed the Alanna Gallagher situation on here. I don't like the term "case" as it sounds so cold.

Anyway, it is amazing how quiet the media and people who knew things were.

Info has come out that is unbelievable. The things that LE knew were quite astounding.

LE has named DR as a person of interest. The public knows this. So, anyone who has info has the opportunity to give it.

After seeing info that LE has had in other situations, I am confident they know plenty. They just don't have enough to convict.

Think of Casey Anthony, That was a no brainer. A two year old missing for 30 days and not reported by the mother. Well, I guess no problem to not mention your toddler is nowhere to be seen.h
 
thenotebook said:
This is weird. When I go to that link I get this error message. I tried using both IE and Firefox.

Error:

error.jpg
Click to expand...

Yes, you get that error message. But scroll to the bottom of the page, and the videos are still there.
 
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