ARRESTED- Luka Rocco Magnotta:1st deg murder charge #8

PAXIMUS · Jun 10, 2012

HastingsChi said:
The Canadian legal system is something that I am looking forward to better understanding. I am embarrassed by the ethnocentric ignorance I currently have about the in's and out's of Canada's system of justice and the wheels that make it turn. While we export and seem to flood Canadians with our media, we rarely take the opportunity to learn about them. The film Canadian Bacon is a great illustration of American ignorance about Canada.

Based on your legal background and what you shared with me PAX, you've learned much more about the Canadian legal burden of proof that must be met for conviction and the manner which they conduct legal cases. Therefore I give the points you raised much more weight in my mind.

I have a lot more to learn about their system myself, I have just started that part of my research but I am starting to get some idea of the differences between that system and our own, while most of those differences seem minor to the untrained eye they will indeed play a big role in how this case is tried and defended there as opposed to how it may be tried an defended here.

Lera213 · Jun 10, 2012

The problem LE has is not who killed him, for that I think shows on the raw video, but they have to authenticate he was the one that recorded it and uploaded it in order for it to be admissable in court. Also this will be needed to for the other charges other than the Murder 1

Sonya610 · Jun 10, 2012

livingstone said:
I have never heard of the Armin video going public either. There was that movie "Grimm Love." You see that?

Nope, but will search for it. I am a netflix member and was sad to realize someone told me about "A Serbian Film" ages ago and it WAS on netflix for a bit but then censored/deleted before I knew it was there.

I am not so comfy with downloading non-legit sources of full length movies because of the virus risks, plus i don't know how to unzip them.

HastingsChi · Jun 10, 2012

PAXIMUS said:
I have a lot more to learn about their system myself, I have just started that part of my research but I am starting to get some idea of the differences between that system and our own, while most of those differences seem minor to the untrained eye they will indeed play a big role in how this case is tried and defended there as opposed to how it may be tried an defended here.

PAX, given the information about this potential case that has been confirmed up until this point, what would you think his potential defense case might be? (Others, especially those with intimate knowledge of the Canadian justice system please feel free to chime in on this question)

livingstone · Jun 10, 2012

Sonya610 said:
Warning amateur forensic opinion don't read if squeemish:

I don't really see Luka dismembering females (as in identified as female at birth).

Having said that I was surprised at the dismemberment thing too. The cuts appeared to be clean, real clean with no hesitation marks. Just seered through the bone maybe with a power saw? (I can't review the video because the major gore sites are getting heat from their web hosts and pulling the video... temporarily). This happened in an apartment? I guess power saws could be used but would make a lot of noise. Worse case -- building manager shows up and makes a frowny face and says keep down the noise.

Generally dismemberment involves the joints, deal with the muscle/tissue and break the joint (I know this following a dismemberment case an researching the rendering of deer).

The throat cut was also very very clean, like....errmmmm...either the body was washed off after or already deceased, obviously the later.

I completely agree the dismembered arm thing seemed odd. I am not sure what I can and can't say without getting mod snipped, just talking about the known facts of the case here.

Graphic

In my first post I had stated that my opinion (same as yours) was that the throat was cut postmortem.

The blood pattern and especially the amount was one that indicates a "smooth and even spillage." This would suggest no blood pressure was present at the time.

This is why I suggested that OD, or smothering, could have been the method of death. There was no obvious trauma to the victim when he was shown postmortem, and prior to the ice pick frenzy.

Yes, I too noticed the smooth and clean cuts.

Re: getting through bone....there was an article posted here a while back that stated the police found "several sharp and blunt instruments." Essentially one could use a mallet and hammer if need be to cut through bone. May take a while and be messy, but, it could be done.

And, true a power saw could have been used. But as you pointed out there is the noise issue.

He obviously practiced on household pets. I cannot see this kid going hunting and dressing large game.

Cappuccino · Jun 10, 2012

Lera213 said:
The problem LE has is not who killed him, for that I think shows on the raw video, but they have to authenticate he was the one that recorded it and uploaded it in order for it to be admissable in court. Also this will be needed to for the other charges other than the Murder 1

I'm not sure they need to prove who uploaded or recorded it for it to be admissable in court. If it shows him committing the murder it will be evidence no matter who recorded/uploaded it - after all, if he'd been caught on CCTV camera committing a murder that would be admissable in court, so I see no reason why this video shouldn't be.

They will need to establish that for the other charges though.

9InchNails · Jun 10, 2012

james62 said:
I read in an MSM report (sorry no link) that he threw his phone in a rubbish bin in the Paris metro. However, the phone was found by a cleaner and used, leading police to think he was still in Paris when he was actually in Berlin.

Yes, that's also what I read.

http://www.europe1.fr/France/Depeceur-de-Montreal-le-travail-de-fourmi-de-la-police-1113881/

Sauf que le tueur présumé s'était débarrassé de son téléphone dans une poubelle du métro. En réalité, le mobile avait été récupéré par un agent de nettoyage qui s'en est servi pour appeler chez lui, en Afrique.

Translation: But the suspected killer had thrown his phone away in a bin in the metro. Actually, the mobile phone had been recovered by a cleaner who then used it to call his family in Africa.

Salem · Jun 10, 2012

HastingsChi said:
Sounds like the Mariam case is important to you. Maybe a mod might allow you to start a thread focused on that case.

WS sleuths followed Miriam's case closely. It is highly unlikely that it is connected to this case. Miriam's threads may be found here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165585&highlight=Miriam

Salem

GatsbyGrace · Jun 10, 2012

I have to say that given the highly disturbing nature of this case & the graphic images that are floating around the interwebs, I am glad that the mods have put the rules in place about not linking to blogs, etc.

The other night, I was catching up on one of the threads & clicked a blog link & almost lost my dinner. There was a horrifying graphic still pic from the killvid at the bottom of the page. I messaged the poster & asked them to put a warning on that post (which he/she did ... thank you!), and they messaged me back a very gracious apology & said that those images were NOT there earlier in the day when he/she posted the link.

At this point, it's nearly impossible to guarantee that what is there when a link is posted will be the same content minutes, hours or days later.

livingstone · Jun 10, 2012

girlinblue said:
I wouldn't waste your energy on it, Livingstone. If it was out there it would've blown up by now. I don't think we'll ever see it.

Am not concerned about the unedited version other than to hope it exists for purposes of the criminal proceeding. An unedited version would help to assure conviction.

If an unedited version existed and found its way to the internet, I would not personally view it. The 10 minute version was quite enough for my professional interest.

In fact, the reason I watched the video at all was because it is in line with my profession and this perp is one I care to study a bit, due to his unique profile.

HastingsChi · Jun 10, 2012

In the six days since Magnotta's arrest, I've been looking for additional reporting on one aspect of the investigation that seems to have gone silent: From the Mirror (a UK based tabloid considered as MSM)
"French clubber reveals terror after spending two nights with fugitive gay *advertiser censored* star"
www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cannibal-killer-i-slept-with-luka-rocco-861745

My roots as a journalist immediately made me recognize that, if true, this story has legs. The details and discussion of their alleged time together would merit coverage not only in tabloid publications, but also: MSM throughout Canada, local Paris media, GLBT-focused media and other MSM organizations because, in my opinion, if this is true, this guy has a story to tell.

However this story has completely disappeared.

Thoughts?

GatsbyGrace · Jun 10, 2012

otto said:
I'm sure that there is plenty of evidence. We also have heard from police that they have the RAW video. If it was someone other than Eric Newman committing the murder, we would have heard about it.

BBM.

Exactly. It would be sinking to LM's level to think that they've let the 'real killer' roam free while he sits in a Berlin prison, 'framed' by the Montreal police for a murder he did not commit.

LadyL · Jun 10, 2012

Lera213 said:
if reports are correct, he left is cell phone in car in order for the cops to follow it (something like that) he left stuff in his hotel room, he wore glasses, a wig, and was in a different country were he thought he wouldn't be recognized as easy with his glasses, or wig on.

james62 said:
I read in an MSM report (sorry no link) that he threw his phone in a rubbish bin in the Paris metro. However, the phone was found by a cleaner and used, leading police to think he was still in Paris when he was actually in Berlin.

Sealuzna said:
He left it in a subway car in the Paris Metro.

[bbm]

this is like a game of telephone tag IMO & this is why we need to post MSM links

HastingsChi · Jun 10, 2012

GatsbyGrace said:
I have to say that given the highly disturbing nature of this case & the graphic images that are floating around the interwebs, I am glad that the mods have put the rules in place about not linking to blogs, etc.

The other night, I was catching up on one of the threads & clicked a blog link & almost lost my dinner. There was a horrifying graphic still pic from the killvid at the bottom of the page. I messaged the poster & asked them to put a warning on that post (which he/she did ... thank you!), and they messaged me back a very gracious apology & said that those images were NOT there earlier in the day when he/she posted the link.

At this point, it's nearly impossible to guarantee that what is there when a link is posted will be the same content minutes, hours or days later.

Thank you for sharing that GatsbyGrace and I am so sorry that you had to experience viewing such images.

I know that after viewing such images I will never, ever be able to forget the image of Mr Lin's face following the unspeakable horrors that were done to him. I've prayed to forget to remember that image but as of now that has not happened.

jeanne · Jun 10, 2012

HastingsChi said:
In the six days since Magnotta's arrest, I've been looking for additional reporting on one aspect of the investigation that seems to have gone silent: From the Mirror (a UK based tabloid considered as MSM)
"French clubber reveals terror after spending two nights with fugitive gay *advertiser censored* star"
www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cannibal-killer-i-slept-with-luka-rocco-861745

My roots as a journalist immediately made me recognize that, if true, this story has legs. The details and discussion of their alleged time together would merit coverage not only in tabloid publications, but also: MSM throughout Canada, local Paris media, GLBT-focused media and other MSM organizations because, in my opinion, if this is true, this guy has a story to tell.

However this story has completely disappeared.

Thoughts?

I can think of two possible reasons: one, the guy is scared and has disappeared to avoid being deluged by the press, or two, there's no story to tell beyond a two evening sexual tryst.

james62 · Jun 10, 2012

9InchNails said:
Yes, that's also what I read.

http://www.europe1.fr/France/Depeceur-de-Montreal-le-travail-de-fourmi-de-la-police-1113881/

Translation: But the suspected killer had thrown his phone away in a bin in the metro. Actually, the mobile phone had been recovered by a cleaner who then used it to call his family in Africa.

Ah yes, thank you. I'm sure that's where I saw it too.

PAXIMUS · Jun 10, 2012

HastingsChi said:
PAX, given the information about this potential case that has been confirmed up until this point, what would you think his potential defense case might be? (Others, especially those with intimate knowledge of the Canadian justice system please feel free to chime in on this question)

That is a good question, it is really hard to know what sort of defense may be in play here without having all of the evidence laid out in front of me to pick apart and witnesses to cross examine in pre trial deposition etc but from what I DO know and knowing what I do about Luka, right now, I would suggest he is going to argue he was framed and from the evidence I DO SEE right now, I could very well, and to some degree of success, make that argument well enough to plant some reasonable doubt in at least one juror.

However, if I were able to get a diagnoses for an Axis 1 mental disorder I would very likely put not criminally responsible by reason of insanity OR guilty but insane if they have his face on the video, on the table. If he is diagnosed with an Axis 2 mental disorder then insanity, at least in the states is likely not a possible defense. Common Axis I disorders include depression, anxiety disorders, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and schizophrenia/psychosis. Common Axis 2 disorders include borderline personality disorder, schizotypal personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, and mild mental retardation. Axis 1 disorders can be treated with medication and are the ones normally used in an insanity defense. Axis 2 disorders can very rarely be treated with medication and are generally not accepted by the court as evidence of being criminally insane, with the exception of mental retardation which is usually ruled as not competent to stand trial.

As you know a defendant is not required to put on any defense and he could simply plead not guilty and then take his chances with the state being able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty. Or he could put on an active defense arguing that he was framed or insane etc. Again, right now, I would probably argue he was framed, even though I dont believe that personally I could argue it in court, but if I had an actual Axis 1 diagnoses I would definitely consider some sort of insanity defense.

Karmady · Jun 10, 2012

james62 said:
yes, i'd heard that about counsellors and shrinks being some of the most messed up people- it was my clinical psychologist who told me :floorlaugh:
I know that a lot of what I've gone through has been environmental. there will almost certainly have been genetic elements sure. My main condition is a form of anxiety which can be extremely severe. It was explained to me that the sudden disappearance of a primary care giver (i.e. parent) at a young age is probably the most severe trauma a young child can experience. In my case it expresses itself in many ways, but the worst is 'catastrophisation', i.e. being convinced that something dreadful is about to happen. For me it's logical that I should fear that, because it actually did happen when I was 6, and very sudden it was two. One minute she was there, next minute gone until i found her 35 years later.

For me depression is a secondary condition brought on by the anxiety disorder.

Anyway I'm finding your posts on this (mental health) aspect very interesting. Thank you.

I think this is very true. Just speculating, but I would think that many people who study psychology do so because they have an interest in the subject for personal reasons and are trying to better understand their own situation. I know that is very true for myself. I'm not a practicing psychologist, but I do hold a degree in it. I found the subject matter extremely interesting in its own right, but there was a very personal element to it, too. In fact, I wrote my senior paper on my personal topic, unbeknownst to anyone but myself.

So if there's any truth to my speculation, many people who follow that professional path have their own childhood traumas to deal with. jmo

HastingsChi · Jun 10, 2012

I think it is important in the early pages of a new thread to ask that we all might take a moment and remember Jun / Justin Lin and his family and friends who are going through a very difficult time.

While I shared this article in the previous thread, I feel it is important to highlight again from the Calgary Herald:

Stricken with grief, family of Jun Lin says: 'We come to take you home'http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/national/Family+dismemberment+victim+makes+emotional+journey+from/6744263/story.html#ixzz1xPh7Y2z3

A wave of sorrow washes over Yan Shi's face as he describes meeting the mother of the victim of one of Canada's most horrific crimes.

Jun Lin's mother could barely be understood amid her sobs but Shi said one message for her murdered son came out clear as a bell "We come to bring you home now."

Lin's mother struggled to stay on her feet and was so overcome with grief that she could barely express herself.

"The entire scene was heartbreaking," Shi told The Canadian Press in an interview.

"Lin's mother was very emotional. She was crying the entire time. It's really terrible just being there. We didn't understand a word she was saying, she was crying a lot.

"She was barely walking. We had to help her."

ARRESTED- Luka Rocco Magnotta:1st deg murder charge #8

Registered user

New Member

Former Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Former Member

Pay no attention to the lady doing the typing.

New Member

Well-Known Member

Pay no attention to the lady doing the typing.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

New Member

Registered user

Former Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

DNASolves

Online statistics

Forum statistics