17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #23

jjenny · Apr 12, 2012

Adrienne37 said:
In all honesty, we do not know what they have. I think we got what the SPD wanted us to have when all of the information was posted. It's certainly possible that they have a witness who saw the whole event occur, we just do not know at the moment. Just because they won't come forward in the media doesn't mean they do not exist.

~jmo~

I don't see anything to suggest they have a witness that saw the whole event from the start. The "charging document" doesn't have any new info.

joypath · Apr 12, 2012

LolaMoon08 said:
Who had legal custody of Trayvon? I'm only asking this because if Trayvon's mother had legal custody of Trayvon, she may have had to be the one to legally identify him and it may have taken her time to get up to Sanford to do this and that may be where the "3 days" at the morgue came from?

If Tracy didn't have legal custody of Trayvon, would he legally be able to identify him? I would think the custodial parent would be the one who had to actually do the indentification or give permission for someone other than them to do the identification? Which would mean papers had to be signed? Right?

Here's the policy from the ME's office for Seminole County: "What is "Legal" Identification?
In every death which might result in criminal charges (homicide, DUI, etc.) a legal identification of the deceased is necessary. This identification is done by an acquaintance who is not related to the deceased and who has known him or her for one year. Relatives are not used so that later court proceedings are not overturned on a "technicality" of having emotionally distraught family members influencing a jury decision."

http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/comsrvs/medexaminer.aspx?ref=#legalid

Rather the same manner applied in MANY ME's offices throughout the States, as noted, MANY, not able to quantify this policy as for ALL. IMO

Phoenixfla · Apr 12, 2012

Dr.Fessel said:
Full charging document if it hasn't been posted.

http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2012-04/69353440.pdf

Page 2 "Trayvon's mother has reviewed the 911 calls and identified the voice crying for help as Trayvon Martin's voice."

Wouldn't a thurough investigation also ask a GZ family member (perhaps his wife) if the voice was GZ's voice? Just to be fair?

Page 2 "When the police dispatcher realized Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that"

That is not true. He said "we don't need you to do that"

I see a few more inconsistencies and I feel that this affidavit is sloppy. JMHO

frenchvixen · Apr 12, 2012

Kimberlyd125 said:
Perhaps he wanted someone to help him because he didn't want to pull the trigger.

So, he just had no choice but to shoot him after "John" told him that he was getting help. This does not add up. I have never heard of an instance where the person with the gun or knife is the one screaming. Never! The one screaming is the defenseless one people. Like Mike Tyson said, "it's not rocket science".

LolaMoon08 · Apr 12, 2012

joypath said:
Here's the policy from the ME's office for Seminole County: "What is "Legal" Identification?
In every death which might result in criminal charges (homicide, DUI, etc.) a legal identification of the deceased is necessary. This identification is done by an acquaintance who is not related to the deceased and who has known him or her for one year. Relatives are not used so that later court proceedings are not overturned on a "technicality" of having emotionally distraught family members influencing a jury decision."

http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/comsrvs/medexaminer.aspx?ref=#legalid

Rather the same manner applied in MANY ME's offices throughout the States, as noted, MANY, not able to quantify this policy as for ALL. IMO

Awesome! Thanks joypath!!

So they wouldn't need the custodial parent to give permission to anyone in order to identify a minor?

jjenny · Apr 12, 2012

Phoenixfla said:
Page 2 "Trayvon's mother has reviewed the 911 calls and identified the voice crying for help as Trayvon Martin's voice."

Wouldn't a thurough investigation also ask a GZ family member (perhaps his wife) if the voice was GZ's voice? Just to be fair?

Page 2 "When the police dispatcher realized Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that"

That is not true. He said "we don't need you to do that"

I see a few more inconsistencies and I feel that this affidavit is sloppy. JMHO

And we already know that GZ's brother claims it was GZ screaming.

Cher352 · Apr 12, 2012

princesspjs said:
This does not look like a small or thin man to me at all. If you watch the video, it's even more apparent that this is a "husky" man.

http://www.wftv.com/videos/ap/florida/raw-video-zimmerman-arrives-at-jail/vGtkL/

For all we know this could have been a decoy on the video due to the death threats. The GZ I saw in today's hearing looked no where that big to me in either height or girth...IMO.

LolaMoon08 · Apr 12, 2012

Cher352 said:
For all we know this could have been a decoy on the video due to the death threats. The GZ I saw in today's hearing looked no where that big to me in either height or girth...IMO.

So they gave Zimmerman that exact shirt to wear in his mugshot?

tlcya · Apr 12, 2012

jjenny said:
Well that document sure as **** doesn't have any more info than what we have been discussing all alone.

It sure does not seem to have anything in it about GZ being attacked by TM though. This leads me to believe investigators are not so much buying that theory of SYG and GZ defending himself.

Adrienne37 · Apr 12, 2012

jjenny said:
I don't see anything to suggest they have a witness that saw the whole event from the start. The "charging document" doesn't have any new info.

The prosecutor doesn't have to lay out their entire case in a probable cause affidavit.

~jmo~

jjenny · Apr 12, 2012

tlcox said:
It sure does not seem to have anything in it about GZ being attacked by TM though. This leads me to believe investigators are not so much buying that theory of SYG and GZ defending himself.

My guess is she is going to argue that because Zimmerman followed TM self-defense doesn't apply to Zimmerman.
And defense is going to argue its still does if Zimmerman was physically attacked by TM.

tlcya · Apr 12, 2012

Adrienne37 said:
In all honesty, we do not know what they have. I think we got what the SPD wanted us to have when all of the information was posted. It's certainly possible that they have a witness who saw the whole event occur, we just do not know at the moment. Just because they won't come forward in the media doesn't mean they do not exist.

~jmo~

Agreed - We don't know what they have. I was referring to what WE have thus far and the confusion it has caused us all.

jjenny · Apr 12, 2012

Adrienne37 said:
The prosecutor doesn't have to lay out their entire case in a probable cause affidavit.

~jmo~

Well from the look of it, it appears to be their entire case to me. Add a bunch of eye and ear witnesses most of whom appear to be confused as to was on top and who was screaming.

Adrienne37 · Apr 12, 2012

tlcox said:
Agreed - We don't know what they have. I was referring to what WE have thus far and the confusion it has caused us all.

Thanks TL. I think they have sooo much more information that we have no clue about at all. I think it's going to end up being an open and shut case.

~jmo~

joypath · Apr 12, 2012

LolaMoon08 said:
Awesome! Thanks joypath!!

So they wouldn't need the custodial parent to give permission to anyone in order to identify a minor?

Lola,
Again I'll refer to the Seminole website to quote accurately the policy in THAT jurisdiction: "Permission for Autopsy? The Medical Examiner does not require permission from next-of-kin for an autopsy. Religious objections to autopsy are handled with counseling on a case by case basis when the rights of the deceased might be compromised by not performing the autopsy. Family permission for a hospital autopsy in questionable cases should not be requested until after the Medical Examiner has declined jurisdiction."

AND again add that a similar or same policy MAY exist in MOST/MANY other jurisdictions across the States, in no way could it be interpreted that my statement stands for ALL ME offices......but ALL ME offices do/must follow State statutes as written.

Many State's have websites that spell out the ME's office responsibilities.

IMO and Just my experience.

jjenny · Apr 12, 2012

Adrienne37 said:
Thanks TL. I think they have sooo much more information that we have no clue about at all. I think it's going to end up being an open and shut case.

~jmo~

Well I am sure thinking the opposite of what you are thinking.

LolaMoon08 · Apr 12, 2012

Dr. Fessel?

How long before we see the motion to have all George Zimmerman's statements, the night of the shooting, and the walk-through the next day thrown out?

Also, does anyone believe Mark O. will try and get GZ to waive his right to a fair trial?

Kimberlyd125 · Apr 12, 2012

frenchvixen said:
So, he just had no choice but to shoot him after "John" told him that he was getting help. This does not add up. I have never heard of an instance where the person with the gun or knife is the one screaming. Never! The one screaming is the defenseless one people. Like Mike Tyson said, "it's not rocket science".

I think it makes perfect sense if he was being attacked and wanted it to stop but didn't want to shoot.
Maybe he felt like if someone could make it stop, he wouldn't have to use the gun.

Mike Tyson doesn't even.... Nevermind.

Emeralgem · Apr 12, 2012

Phoenixfla said:
Page 2 "Trayvon's mother has reviewed the 911 calls and identified the voice crying for help as Trayvon Martin's voice."

Wouldn't a thurough investigation also ask a GZ family member (perhaps his wife) if the voice was GZ's voice? Just to be fair?

Page 2 "When the police dispatcher realized Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that"

That is not true. He said "we don't need you to do that"I see a few more inconsistencies and I feel that this affidavit is sloppy. JMHO

BBM IMHO.. The dispatch person telling GZ " We do not need you to do that" is the same as instructing him NOT to follow TM.. For certain, the dispatcher was not telling GZ he wanted him to follow TM as some here have suggested.JMHO...

Kimberlyd125 · Apr 12, 2012

Emeralgem said:
BBM IMHO.. The dispatch person telling GZ " We do not need you to do that" is the same as instructing him NOT to follow TM.. For certain, the dispatcher was not telling GZ he wanted him to follow TM as some here have suggested.JMHO...

I disagree. It's not the same.

The way it was stated was not an order, it was a suggestion.

Dispatcher never said the words "don't do it" or "stop doing it".

He said we don't NEED you to do that.

Not an order.

17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #23

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