Amanda Knox found guilty for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy #16

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Footwarrior said:
Most burglars prefer unoccupied homes. The cottage would have been dark, but tossing a big rock through the window is one way to be sure. Toss the rock and hide in the shadows. If anyone is home the noise will wake them up and you just sneak away to look for another target.

If the lights don't come on, you can proceed with the burglary.
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If Guede was there at 8:30 because he had a date with Meredith (this was posted upthread), then why did he need a rock to get into the cottage? Didn't he wait until Meredith came home and enter through the front door ... if we are to believe that particular scenario?
 
Just wanted to add that those that have said she changed her story the next day in the letter regarding PL need to see that she didn't think he was "not guilty" until she'd been in jail a few days.
 
I will let others study your post for a bit Otto but the reason it has to be removed is because it is copied and pasted directly from another forum. Moreover, it is translated by this person named Thoughtful who we don't know from Adam.

eta: Please do not quote the post...
 
<modsnip>

Thank you for finding this, Otto. I know that it takes your time, and I just want to say that I really appreciate it that you find these documents, link to them, and post them.

:seeya:
 
Harmony2 said:
I will let others study your post for a bit Otto but the reason it has to be removed is because it is copied and pasted directly from another forum. Moreover, it is translated by this person named Thoughtful who we don't know from Adam.

eta: Please do not quote the post...
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Thanks. All I know is that it's the only English translation of the transcripts, which is better than nothing, but I do understand that it might be subjective translation.
 
It sounds to me from Otto's post re: Court Trancripts, that Amanda suddenly got a little light bulb in her head when asked about who the person from the text was (which is jsut natural police-work, it would have been done in any case). She says she started crying, crying crocodile tears IMO. This was the beginning of her Patrick act. Her crying moves the policepeople to ask her, what's wrong, you can tell us, what do you want to tell us? And then she goes into her Patrick story.
 
italianWSfan said:
Okay it seems I created quite a confusion, which was not my intention.
I will give it one more try.

What I tried to say is, it seems possible for me that the police suggested Lumumba COULD HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT.

Lumumba wrote in a text message that there is no need for Knox to do her shift. She responded "Okay, ci vediamo piu tardi." (Okay, see you later.) "See you later" is an english phrase which is used very often - you would say to someone "see you later" even if you knew that you are not going to meet this person again soon.
But, translated to the Italian language, "ci vediamo piu tardi" means something different, even though the translation is correct. If you say that sentence to someone, you are going to have a definite appointment with that person, in the next couple of hours.
If you do not have an appointment, you will need to use another term. In english, you can use it with or without appointment.

I made this point because I experienced this myself when spending two years abroad in the UK. People there were telling me all the time that they would "see me later" and I found it strange, because I did not have an appointment with them. I got used to it eventually.

Knox probably did not about this, and she just used this term because she translated it in her mind directly from English to Italian.
Now we have the scenario of the police first questioning Knox. She gave her cellphone willingly to them and they eventually found her message to Lumumba saying "Ci vediamo piu tardi".
Hence they assumed Knox had an apointment that evening with this man.
They asked her if she met someone and she said she did not. That is when police got suspicious (rightfully) because of this message in which she wrote it down. Then they call her a liar and they put her under pressure (using words - I DO NOT believe they hit her) to tell them the truth. They probably went on asking "who is this man? how do you know him? why are you saying you didnt meet him, when you wrote that message to him? You must be lying, are you trying to cover him up? why? what did he do? did he kill meredith?" etc. etc.
Up to this point the above seems problable to me.
Then, Knox under pressure, maybe thought "hey, lets make up a story. They want to hear I met Lumumba, so I might just tell them I really did and fabricate a huge story about him killing Meredith. They will hopefully buy the story and then they will let me go and put him to prison."

Later, when Lumumba was set free because of several alibis, she said she was "confused" as police "suggested" to her Lumumba did it. Which, in fact, COULD be seen as the truth, because they did. What Knox did not say, of course, is that she fabricated the whole story to clear her name.

That is why I was saying I can see where that statement comes from.
I dont know if it is the truth, but is seems probable to me.
I believe in her guilt anyway.
Sorry for any grammar mistakes :blushing:
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Yeah, I can see how in English the phrase, "See You Later" is taken as a blow-off phrase taken to mean "Bye!:seeya: Talk to you again sometime"
 
Amber29 said:
Where does RG admit to cleaning up in the bathroom? Please provide the source.

Clearly as a lone wolf he would've done more than clean off his pants, as there was blood on the sink,bidet, and toilet. All that and he was able to manage to avoid getting any blood on the tile.

I seem to remember evidence in the GZ trial being stored incorrectly in the same manner and being ruined.
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Rudy talked about going to Meredith's bathroom to get towels in his statement to the German police. I believe he elaborated on that story in later statements but don't have access to them right now.
 
Mod note:
The general discussion thread will close tomorrow morning until further notice. Members can create topic specific threads for new developments in the case or as the need arises. Topical threads would include the judge’s motivational report, the defense’s appeal, and extradition. New threads will go under mod review and a decision will be made whether to approve and open the thread for posting. Most threads are approved immediately.

Please contact me if you have any questions in this regard.​
 
otto said:
If Guede was there at 8:30 because he had a date with Meredith (this was posted upthread), then why did he need a rock to get into the cottage? Didn't he wait until Meredith came home and enter through the front door ... if we are to believe that particular scenario?
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Why do you believe that Meredith was the kind of girl who would make a secret liaison with Rudy and cheat on her boyfriend?

Rudy wasn't invited into the cottage, he went there to steal.

A bit of background might help people understand why he chose that weekend. Italy is a nation where cheating on taxes is considered a national sport. To keep their actual income secret, most landlords insist on being paid in cash. The same holds for many small businesses. Knowing that rent would be due the next Monday made that holiday weekend prime time for thieves. Rudy's rent was also due on Monday, and without a job he had to find another source of money.
 
I am still waiting for someone to come forward and declare they have a 3 hour full stomach thing going on. I have been checking and I feel fine pretty soon after dinner. I look on the internet and it says a stomach begins to empty in about half an hour. It is silly to try to convince others that it is 3 hours when we all eat and we all know the feeling. JMO.
 
Footwarrior said:
Why do you believe that Meredith was the kind of girl who would make a secret liaison with Rudy and cheat on her boyfriend?

Rudy wasn't invited into the cottage, he went there to steal.

A bit of background might help people understand why he chose that weekend. Italy is a nation where cheating on taxes is considered a national sport. To keep their actual income secret, most landlords insist on being paid in cash. The same holds for many small businesses. Knowing that rent would be due the next Monday made that holiday weekend prime time for thieves. Rudy's rent was also due on Monday, and without a job he had to find another source of money.
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I don't. However, the claim from Guede that he was at the cottage at 8:30 is completely related to his "date". I don't understand why anyone would suggest that he was there at 8:30, per his claim, and ignore the other half of the sentence, which is that he arrived for a date.

Guede a liar, just like the other two convicted murderers, so nothing he says isn't worth anything unless it can be independently verified.
 
Footwarrior said:
Why do you believe that Meredith was the kind of girl who would make a secret liaison with Rudy and cheat on her boyfriend?

Rudy wasn't invited into the cottage, he went there to steal.

A bit of background might help people understand why he chose that weekend. Italy is a nation where cheating on taxes is considered a national sport. To keep their actual income secret, most landlords insist on being paid in cash. The same holds for many small businesses. Knowing that rent would be due the next Monday made that holiday weekend prime time for thieves. Rudy's rent was also due on Monday, and without a job he had to find another source of money.
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How would Rudy know exactly where the rent money was being kept? Would we not expect to see rummaging around until he found the money, opening drawers, looking for the money?
 
aa9511 said:
What do you mean, if Meredith died before 9:30pm, cell phones irrelevant? The cell phones were turned off at 8:42pm. Actually, that actually works in better with your own theory of TOD. If evidence shows a video starting at 9:24, and it is only about 5 minute walk to the apartment from RS's house....Meredith arrives around 9, does that not give them 15 minutes to accidentally stab her? I would think that could be done in 15 minutes. If it was accidental stab, they do overkill, run out, they come back later and do the rest of the staging. I include sexual assault with the staging.

They turn on Naruto at 9:24 pm b/c they need it for their alibi. Since they cannot turn on their cell phones, as I explained in my last post, due to the time cell phones would be off would be exactly the time Meredith was killed. They had to leave their cell phones off. They cannot see anyone to establish alibi b/c they have to clean themselves off, then figure out a plan, and then go back and do the staging/cleaning up all night.

I never assumed they planned a murder. Did I say that? I said that they planned a prank. Thos are two very different things. I never said they turned off their cell phones to commit the murder. I said they turned off their cell phones for the prank.

JMO
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You don't need 2 people to turn on a video. IMO Knox arrived first (CCTV images), bumped into Guede (his timing of the 'date' with Meredith fits the arrival time of Knox better), let him in, Meredith arrived and there is a fight that probably included Guede. Knox gets the idea to take revenge (prank) and runs off to get Sollecito (and knife), Guede hangs around or hides in the bathroom. I thought Crini was brilliant to connect the Naruto timing with the sighting of Knox and Sollecito at the basketball court. It fits perfectly.
 
sherlockh said:
I am still waiting for someone to come forward and declare they have a 3 hour full stomach thing going on. I have been checking and I feel fine pretty soon after dinner. I look on the internet and it says a stomach begins to empty in about half an hour. It is silly to try to convince others that it is 3 hours when we all eat and we all know the feeling. JMO.
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Three hours is the maximum for a normal person. It often starts in a half hour, but can take longer. None of the meal Meredith ate at 6:30 had moved from her stomach into the duodenum. This makes it is almost certain that she died before 9:30.
 
aa9511 said:
How would Rudy know exactly where the rent money was being kept? Would we not expect to see rummaging around until he found the money, opening drawers, looking for the money?
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Guede had no way of knowing anything about rent arrangements without getting that information from someone. Meredith was murdered on the evening of Nov 1, the day that rent is normally paid. Most people would try to steal money the day before the rent is due, not the evening after it is due. Why would Guede expect that the rent would be paid late?

Meredith had the rent money and offered to give it to Filomina, but Filomina planned on paying the landlord late, so Meredith was asked to keep the money. Knox was aware of that conversation and knew that Meredith had the rent money in her room.
 
Footwarrior said:
Three hours is the maximum for a normal person. It often starts in a half hour, but can take longer. None of the meal Meredith ate at 6:30 had moved from her stomach into the duodenum. This makes it is almost certain that she died before 9:30.
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Very unlikely. It can take 10 minutes longer, but not hours. I showed many links of this awhile ago. Ligatures were not used. That is the problem.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Giancarlo_Umani_Ronchi's_Testimony_(English)
 
otto said:
I don't. However, the claim from Guede that he was at the cottage at 8:30 is completely related to his "date". I don't understand why anyone would suggest that he was there at 8:30, per his claim, and ignore the other half of the sentence, which is that he arrived for a date.

Guede a liar, just like the other two convicted murderers, so nothing he says isn't worth anything unless it can be independently verified.
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Which is why I don't take at face value anything he said about what he did inside the house, including anything he did or did not do immediately following the attack. His bloody shoeprints went in a straight line out the door. That says everything I need to know about who cleaned up and staged the scene.
 
otto said:
I don't. However, the claim from Guede that he was at the cottage at 8:30 is completely related to his "date". I don't understand why anyone would suggest that he was there at 8:30, per his claim, and ignore the other half of the sentence, which is that he arrived for a date.

Guede a liar, just like the other two convicted murderers, so nothing he says isn't worth anything unless it can be independently verified.
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Knox herself said she met up with 'Patrick' at about 9pm. So although we can't be absolutely sure, I think there might be some truth here. JMO .
 
For people that claim a prior violent history is required. http://murderpedia.org/female.C/c/caffey-erin.htm
This teen girl managed to mastermind the murder of her entire family, including her two younger siblings.
Her father miraculously survived...

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