MS - Jessica Chambers, 19, found burned near her car, Panola County, 6 Dec 2014 - #7

I am sharing this from the series of articles initially written by Gary Pomerantz for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that later became part of the book Nine Minutes, Twenty Seconds. The point of sharing this reference is to illustrate that 1) a liquid fuel (like gasoline) as an accelerant easily spread flames and is resistant to efforts to put it out (such as rolling on the ground, smothering it) 2) it doesn't take much time at all - easily less than 10 or even 5 minutes - for fire to do serious and fast damage 3) that people can and have initially survived great burns (90%+) and been able to speak.

Quote below from the second piece titled "Fire in the Field." The full articles can be found here: http://web.archive.org/web/20070806235719/http://www.dfministry.com/9min20sec.htm

In the field, an EMT carrying a portable oxygen cylinder discovered Jennifer Grunbeck, 29, who was on a business trip while her husband and young son were at home in Maine. A local minister sat beside Grunbeck and told the arriving EMT, Bud Benefield, "This is Jennifer."

Benefield looked at Grunbeck. She had second- and third-degree burns over her body; her blouse was shrink-wrapped onto her skin; and she had singed flesh near her mouth and nose, indicating she'd breathed fire. "Jennifer, can you talk to me?" he asked, not expecting an answer.

"Yes, I can," she said.

Benefield didn't think she'd survive. He figured her airways would swell, she'd go into shock and then her organs would fail. He immediately put her on high-flow oxygen. Then he told the minister, "I don't want you - or the man you work for - to leave me."

Rescue workers arrived with a stretcher, and Grunbeck was carried to an ambulance. "Please, don't drop me," she said. She asked Benefield to tell her husband and son she loved them. Benefield thought, How could any human being survive a burn like this? Later, doctors estimated that Grunbeck had been burned over 92 percent of her body.

At the ambulance, Benefield quietly told the waiting paramedic, "This is one of the worst burns I've ever seen."

southernyankee said:

Don't worry, I didn't think you were arguing at all - these are really important questions! And I'm still thinking it through myself, but here goes...

I am operating under the assumption that she was either A) not meant or expected to regain consciousness (i.e., drugged or beaten + assumed that she'd simply burn up inside); B) never unconscious but beaten or drugged etc. enough that she was not meant or expected to be able to exit the car.

I don't think the perps expected she would ever be able to exit the vehicle on her own volition, and I really don't think they expected anyone else would have been the last to see her alive...suffice it to say they never expected her to run maniacally (if she indeed did).

Correct - we know she was not found in the car, so she wasn't necessarily trapped in there. This points back to the killers really not considering she'd exit, though! I do believe she left the car under her own power.

The evenly distributed body burn (if that is actually true) - if you've thoroughly doused someone or something with gasoline or a highly flammable liquid, the flame follows that source. I can't comment precisely on this as a definitive answer in Jessica's case, because I am speculating on the extent of the use of the accelerant (we do not know how much was used or where specifically). I suppose if the soles of her shoes had been muddy or dirty, that could have aided in resistance to flames, but I don't think that would be totally sufficient to prevent burns on her feet. My guess is that the soles themselves of her shoes were a better physical boundary than anything else, but that they would have eventually melted given enough time/exposure to heat.

I have cited a book previously that is a nonfiction account of a plane crash (Nine Minutes, Twenty Seconds) - and will relate that the jet fuel that had splashed on anyone + anything + caught fire was incredibly resistant to efforts at smothering or rolling the fire out. Particularly, passengers whose clothing got soaked + caught flame nearly all suffered unrecoverable burn injuries. :-(

That is just my off-the-cuff best guess response at this point. I hope it was helpful.

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We're in complete agreement about some things. If she were left in the car, they would have assumed she would not be coming out. She did though, and I assume without assistance if she were in the car. Here's where things go wonky for me though. When it was reported that she was found walking near the scene, I would be in full agreement that she exited the car on her own VERY soon after the blaze began, and ran until the accelerant burned off. It's instinct, no matter how many times you've heard stop drop and roll, you think run. While no where near the scope of Jessica's injury, I had an article of clothing catch fire while I was stone dead drunk and wasted on pot. I woke up pretty quickly and I was frantic. My first reaction was run, I don't know why.

So either, she left the car under her own will, or she was never in the car. Considering the intensity of the fire, and the rate of oxygen consumption of the fire, I would assume she had a 90 second maximum exposure inside the car, before she would be too weak physically to exit the car. However, once having exited the car, she didn't have the presence of mind to just try to roll away from the intense heat? Or assuming she took to her feet, stumble away? Reports make it sound like she lay calmly (maybe even deathly calm) next to the car. No flora burn pattern supports anything else.

You're right about the soles, they too will burn eventually, but the uppers will come off long before, rendering the soles useless. When she stepped off them, if it was inside the roaring furnace her car had become, the soles of her feet would have burned as well.

Every surface of her body was burned, if I remember the quote "severe burns over 98% of her body" I read that in USA today IIRC. Will research link if you like. I'm taking severe to imply 3+ degree. I think if she were reclining, supine, prone or even sitting that the material she was resting against, would have afforded some protection from oxygen fueling the fire. Yes they might ignite eventually, but initially would be deprived oxygen, a key component for combustion. This is conjecture, although I use very direct and certain language very often, I'm not authoritative. I wasn't present for the investigation. Except the fact that fire requires sufficient oxygen, that is fact, and an undeniable one. Even so, assuming she exited the vehicle on her own, simply laying on the now burning part of her body, would have served to extinguish it. Assuming she wasn't at full thickness over most of her body by now, instinct again and pain tell our body intense heat is something to move away from. Yet she expended no effort to do so. A kid who tried to hold on long enough to try to say something didn't have the drive to roll away? That I'm not buying.

I really appreciate your thoughts, your ability to relate them clearly and concisely, and to discuss this like an adult. I find a lot of points where I agree with you fully, however those points in some instances don't fit in my global scope.

I hate the idea that I'm being misrepresented as misleading. Like I said, I use very direct and definite language at times, that's only a reflection of the validity that I believe my opinions have. At the end of the day I'm nobody to this case, just like the rest of us. I wish I had the knowledge or the involvement, to have a personal effect, but I don't. It's all mental gymnastics for me.

I look forward to reading that book, not with regard to this case, it just piques my interest. Thank you for the reference.

southernyankee said:

I am sharing this from the series of articles initially written by Gary Pomerantz for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that later became part of the book Nine Minutes, Twenty Seconds. The point of sharing this reference is to illustrate that 1) a liquid fuel (like gasoline) as an accelerant easily spread flames and is resistant to efforts to put it out (such as rolling on the ground, smothering it) 2) it doesn't take much time at all - easily less than 10 or even 5 minutes - for fire to do serious and fast damage 3) that people can and have initially survived great burns (90%+) and been able to speak.
<ffjsnip>

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That is an amazing plethora of information. Thank you for sharing that.

monster said:

That's good parenting. I cant stand seeing people buried in their phone while driving, the "trucker mouth" comes out, I invent new cuss words and phrases everyday :crazy:

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OMg I do too. I like to compare myself to Deborah Morgan with my ability to create new cuss words while driving.

flatfootjoe said:

I think she was probably secured to the gate or the tree. At least for a short time. Ugh, I didn't really want to think that, or to type it out.

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This makes a lot of sense and would explain why LE believes she wasn't there alone.
Thanks for sharing!

southernyankee said:

I am sharing this from the series of articles initially written by Gary Pomerantz for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that later became part of the book Nine Minutes, Twenty Seconds. The point of sharing this reference is to illustrate that 1) a liquid fuel (like gasoline) as an accelerant easily spread flames and is resistant to efforts to put it out (such as rolling on the ground, smothering it) 2) it doesn't take much time at all - easily less than 10 or even 5 minutes - for fire to do serious and fast damage 3) that people can and have initially survived great burns (90%+) and been able to speak.

Quote below from the second piece titled "Fire in the Field." The full articles can be found here: http://web.archive.org/web/20070806235719/http://www.dfministry.com/9min20sec.htm

In the field, an EMT carrying a portable oxygen cylinder discovered Jennifer Grunbeck, 29, who was on a business trip while her husband and young son were at home in Maine. A local minister sat beside Grunbeck and told the arriving EMT, Bud Benefield, "This is Jennifer."

Benefield looked at Grunbeck. She had second- and third-degree burns over her body; her blouse was shrink-wrapped onto her skin; and she had singed flesh near her mouth and nose, indicating she'd breathed fire. "Jennifer, can you talk to me?" he asked, not expecting an answer.

"Yes, I can," she said.

Benefield didn't think she'd survive. He figured her airways would swell, she'd go into shock and then her organs would fail. He immediately put her on high-flow oxygen. Then he told the minister, "I don't want you - or the man you work for - to leave me."

Rescue workers arrived with a stretcher, and Grunbeck was carried to an ambulance. "Please, don't drop me," she said. She asked Benefield to tell her husband and son she loved them. Benefield thought, How could any human being survive a burn like this? Later, doctors estimated that Grunbeck had been burned over 92 percent of her body.

At the ambulance, Benefield quietly told the waiting paramedic, "This is one of the worst burns I've ever seen."

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Lump in my throat from reading that. Great info, though.

SeriouslySearching said:

There are videos of people who are on fire and from what I have seen they are fully engulfed yet their tendencies do not include laying down or rolling on the ground. They scream and try to run because they panic. 98% burns could be easily explained because she was fully doused before lit and she ran which kept the bottoms of her feet from burning. Also if her clothing at the bottom collected more accelerant, it burned faster and burned out before she fell leaving the soles still untouched, imo. Restraints around her ankles would have actually caused her to fall and put out part of the flames I would think. Having her hands restrained would not have any impact on the flames either way as it would not prevent her from falling, imo.

So no...it is nowhere near "official".

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I agree. I do not get the sense she was restrained in any way other than being possible unconscious or semi conscious for a time.

Just some interesting info on a recent arrest and how it could coincidentally tie in. The charge was/is Aggravated Domestic Violence

Mississippi
Aggravated Domestic Violence

A person is guilty of aggravated domestic violence if he commits an aggravated assault against a spouse, family member or romantic partner as listed above or if he strangles or attempts to strangle one of those victims.

Talullah said:

This makes a lot of sense and would explain why LE believes she wasn't there alone.
Thanks for sharing!

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It also definitively and without question makes it a homicide. A determination they seem to have made immediately, and one of the few factors that hasn't been revised in days following. A lot of people don't agree, but I believe it was the only way to manage Jessica. MOO.

flatfootjoe said:

I find a lot of points where I agree with you fully, however those points in some instances don't fit in my global scope.

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Curious - what do you mean by "global scope"?

flatfootjoe said:

I hate the idea that I'm being misrepresented as misleading. Like I said, I use very direct and definite language at times, that's only a reflection of the validity that I believe my opinions have. At the end of the day I'm nobody to this case, just like the rest of us. I wish I had the knowledge or the involvement, to have a personal effect, but I don't. It's all mental gymnastics for me.

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Disagree, disagree, disagree or at least, I do not see where you're misrepresenting or misleading. Perhaps even more importantly, I don't think you or anyone here is "nobody" to this case. We're here + we're thinking deeply about this, and we're not familiars to those in this case. It means we give a damn as human beings, which is one of the purest damns you can give, I think. (Ha, that sentence. But really!)

Lastly: That book is intense. And so good. For the record - the woman whose case I quoted, with 92% burns? She lived. (But we're talking 50+ surgeries later.) Apparently a priest came to her hospital room ready to read her last rites, and she was able to raise her pinky to signal like, nope, I'm fighting this. Total badass.

On that slightly more uplifting note, WSers, I'm off for the night. Be well.

southernyankee said:

I am sharing this from the series of articles initially written by Gary Pomerantz for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that later became part of the book Nine Minutes, Twenty Seconds. The point of sharing this reference is to illustrate that 1) a liquid fuel (like gasoline) as an accelerant easily spread flames and is resistant to efforts to put it out (such as rolling on the ground, smothering it) 2) it doesn't take much time at all - easily less than 10 or even 5 minutes - for fire to do serious and fast damage 3) that people can and have initially survived great burns (90%+) and been able to speak.

Quote below from the second piece titled "Fire in the Field." The full articles can be found here: http://web.archive.org/web/20070806235719/http://www.dfministry.com/9min20sec.htm

In the field, an EMT carrying a portable oxygen cylinder discovered Jennifer Grunbeck, 29, who was on a business trip while her husband and young son were at home in Maine. A local minister sat beside Grunbeck and told the arriving EMT, Bud Benefield, "This is Jennifer."

Benefield looked at Grunbeck. She had second- and third-degree burns over her body; her blouse was shrink-wrapped onto her skin; and she had singed flesh near her mouth and nose, indicating she'd breathed fire. "Jennifer, can you talk to me?" he asked, not expecting an answer.

"Yes, I can," she said.

Benefield didn't think she'd survive. He figured her airways would swell, she'd go into shock and then her organs would fail. He immediately put her on high-flow oxygen. Then he told the minister, "I don't want you - or the man you work for - to leave me."

Rescue workers arrived with a stretcher, and Grunbeck was carried to an ambulance. "Please, don't drop me," she said. She asked Benefield to tell her husband and son she loved them. Benefield thought, How could any human being survive a burn like this? Later, doctors estimated that Grunbeck had been burned over 92 percent of her body.

At the ambulance, Benefield quietly told the waiting paramedic, "This is one of the worst burns I've ever seen."

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I'm hooked - did she survive?

FelicityLemon said:

I was thinking that DT could have messaged Jessica for either support/listening/information or HELP from her as a friend is her mister had punched her (example) and she was at her wit's end. *That* would certainly pique LE's interest. That would explain why they were brought in for questioning. Remember DT's jumping in to say "it was a lover's quarrel". Maybe, maybe not.

My opinions may change, but right now this is it.

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Maybe Jessica blew the whistle on Tutor to Mister about some indiscretion and that's why Tutor texted Jessica and Mister referred to Jessica as a "good friend."

absentia said:

I'm hooked - did she survive?

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She did! And she did end up with a truly talented lawyer + received a large settlement - so her medical expenses + care were handled and then some. I believe today she is very philanthropic in her community.

From her attorney's website: http://www.baumeisterlaw.com/michel_f_baumeister.html

Before leaving [the hospital], Baumeister said &#8216;Jennifer, I am very tactile as a trial attorney. People often accuse me of getting in the jury box&#8217;. He asked to touch her. &#8216;But I don&#8217;t want to hurt you. Is there any part of you that doesn&#8217;t hurt?&#8217; &#8216;The top of my head&#8217;, Jennifer replied. &#8216;Can I touch you there?&#8217; he asked. She nodded. Baumeister touched the top of her head, softly, then said &#8216;it would be an honor to represent you&#8217;.&#8221;

I so encourage y'all to read the articles or even the book though, because there were people who suffered burns on a lesser percentage of their bodies, who didn't. :-( It's really an amazing mix of personal stories, but I believe everyone survived the initial crash. Not everyone suffered burns, but those that did had a mixed range of outcomes. It makes for some difficult but extraordinary reading.

Okay, sorry to digress so much from Jessica's story. Back into it!

southernyankee said:

Curious - what do you mean by "global scope"?



Disagree, disagree, disagree or at least, I do not see where you're misrepresenting or misleading. Perhaps even more importantly, I don't think you or anyone here is "nobody" to this case. We're here + we're thinking deeply about this, and we're not familiars to those in this case. It means we give a damn as human beings, which is one of the purest damns you can give, I think. (Ha, that sentence. But really!)

Lastly: That book is intense. And so good. For the record - the woman whose case I quoted, with 92% burns? She lived. (But we're talking 50+ surgeries later.) Apparently a priest came to her hospital room ready to read her last rites, and she was able to raise her pinky to signal like, nope, I'm fighting this. Total badass.

On that slightly more uplifting note, WSers, I'm off for the night. Be well.

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Not disagreeing. My opinions are dynamic too. What I once believed, first coming here has changed, dramatically in some respects. At one point I believed she was in the car and set ablaze there. As reports changed, and as things became more clear to me IMO, it made more sense for her to be outside the vehicle.

By global scope referencing the crime, I intended, what I ultimately believe happened start to finish.

I found other survivors of burns encompassing 90%+ tonight. Amazing testimony to human will. It made me very sad that Jessica couldn't have been a survivor too. It's Jessica that drew me here and keeps me here though.

I read the full excerpt you posted, and it made me misty eyed. Knowing the determination she had to live. Looking forward to reading something that looks like it can hold my interest.

Best regards, and the purest of damns! Rest well.

flatfootjoe said:

BBM.
Do you mean acetone, or the more stinky less acrid currently found in stores version. I thought the acetone version was harder to come by nowadays for safety reasons. How would you come by that particular accelerant in volume? I'm not baiting you, I'm exploring the logistics.

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Beauty supply stores sell acetone by the gallon. It may be only available to registered cosmetologists but it is available.

FelicityLemon said:

My suspicious mind says owning a generator is a good cover for someone buying gasoline. He needs it if it works. He can also buy more from another station if need be to replace what could have been borrowed for this event.

Just my opinion from someone with too much time on their hands and nothing more.

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It could be a good cover up, indeed. But also, this could be where he/they got the idea from. Or perhaps it was used on Jessica because it was there and available at the moment the fight (or whatever happened before her death) happened..?

Talullah said:

Beauty supply stores sell acetone by the gallon. It may be only available to registered cosmetologists but it is available.

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Acetone is also used in fiberglas repair and moulding......boat/car repair shops would have it too

Here is a story about a woman with thermal burns to her airway. She wasn't burned like Jessica was, but could not speak at the scene. I don't know what to think, I find it hard to believe Jessica was able to utter anything. Considering the severe burns she had sustained. Her throat and neck had to be compromised as well if 3rd degree.
Just food for thought.
http://cliffviewpilot.com/lodi-woman-braves-smoke-flames-in-edgewater-condo-fire/

newone said:

Acetone is also used in fiberglas repair and moulding......boat/car repair shops would have it too

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Acetone is also available at Home Depot & Lowe's, too. $7.48/quart.

USES:

Klean-Strip 1-quart Acetone can be used indoors and outdoors. It's designed to help thin and remove polyester, epoxy resins, ink, adhesives, contact cement coatings and fiberglass. It cleans dried latex paint, uncured lacquers and label adhesives. It can also be used as a cleanup solvent and remover for fiberglass projects and resin.