The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #5

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Jaya said:
Hi all! I've been stalking these boards for a long time, but have never really wanted to get involved in writing until now.

I'll just jump right in where the conversation currently is. I have a hard time buying that Janelle was unaware that she would be having family coming in from out of town for her graduation. It's graduation, it's important, you remember if Uncle Bob who you haven't seen since Thanksgiving is coming and staying with you. Even if her mom had told her previously and she forgot until that morning, we know based on the Disappeared piece that all the girls went and had dinner with their respective families after the ceremony before getting back together for the parties. If nothing less, Janelle would have been reminded when being with visiting out-of-town guests for dinner that evening. Would she have really forgotten again between dinner and inviting Stacy to stay with her at some point later in the evening?

The other suspicious thing about her story (well, there are many, but I'll just mention this one for now) is her assertion that when she got to the house and found the purses there and the front door unlocked and the light on, she thought that maybe they had just gone for a walk and so she sat and waited for them. Do any of you know a dog owner who goes for a walk around their neighborhood as a family on a nice summer morning and doesn't take their dog?
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Not only that but a nervous dog left in the home is probably going to have an "accident" which most of us have experienced. The carpet was thoroughly cleaned when Sherill moved in. By all accounts that I believe are reliable, she was a good housekeeper. So would she logically leave the house with the dog unattended? I doubt it.

What I find most disturbing is that the police for whatever reason didn't see fit to thoroughly document and investigate these stories to see if they held up under repeating questioning. One of the fundamental rules of investigation is that the people one associates with and their last actions are the best clues to determine what actually took place.

A few years ago there was a video on the internet of her being interviewed and she was not a happy camper because she claimed the cops never talked to one another but asked her the same questions the previous cop asked her. In other words they were a bunch of dipsy doodles who didn't have sense to come in out of the rain to put it in plain terms. It sure would have been nice if at the beginning of this investigation that these stories had all been sorted out and verified. But that was never done. Instead the whole department was sent off chasing wild gooses, ghosts and goblins. It is not a big surprise this case is unsolved. This was a top down investigation run like no other according to the prior prosecutor. There is a cardinal management rule which applies.... "Authority can be delegated by a superior to a subordinate, Responsibility cannot be shifted and is absolute. It flows from top to bottom." This means that little to no authority was granted the experienced detectives to do their jobs. That's a recipe for disaster.
 
I would agree that most dog owners would take their dog along if going out for a walk. But it is also well documented that Sherrill had a doggie door installed in the kitchen which was still there recently. So I doubt that the dog had any “accidents” during the time it was left alone in the house to possibly be a sign as to something being wrong. And Janelle was curious as to why the dog was acting so nervous, jumping into her lap and wanting to be held. But that wouldn’t make most people at that point jump to the conclusion that something was majorly wrong here.

Does the fact that the dog appeared to know Janelle substantiate as fact that the girls’ friendship was more than casual? I think so.
 
Hurricane said:
I would agree that most dog owners would take their dog along if going out for a walk. But it is also well documented that Sherrill had a doggie door installed in the kitchen which was still there recently. So I doubt that the dog had any “accidents” during the time it was left alone in the house to possibly be a sign as to something being wrong. And Janelle was curious as to why the dog was acting so nervous, jumping into her lap and wanting to be held. But that wouldn’t make most people at that point jump to the conclusion that something was majorly wrong here.

Does the fact that the dog appeared to know Janelle substantiate as fact that the girls’ friendship was more than casual? I think so.
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How would the dog have known Janelle since didn't she say that was the first time she had gone to the home on Delmar? I'm inclined to think the dog was acting out separation anxiety. She was glad to see any human.

I can remember the first time we went to the animal shelter to get our first Corgi mix. She jumped right up into my lap and she never had seen me before. Then her tail started wagging and she knew she had found the "sucker" to rescue her and take her home. Dogs have personalities like people and I'm convinced they understand language as well. If only they could talk to us. I believe I have read that they have an IQ of a five year old child. I could believe that. Even when we spell out words they understand and if we talk about them their ears perk up.
 
Missouri Mule said:
How would the dog have known Janelle since didn't she say that was the first time she had gone to the home on Delmar?
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 I'm inclined to think the dog was acting out separation anxiety. She was glad to see any human.

I can remember the first time we went to the animal shelter to get our first Corgi mix. She jumped right up into my lap and she never had seen me before. Then her tail started wagging and she knew she had found the "sucker" to rescue her and take her home. Dogs have personalities like people and I'm convinced they understand language as well. If only they could talk to us. I believe I have read that they have an IQ of a five year old child. I could believe that. Even when we spell out words they understand and if we talk about them their ears perk up.
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They didn't just get the dog in April when they moved in. They had the dog since they lived in Battlefield.
 
Hurricane said:
They didn't just get the dog in April when they moved in. They had the dog since they lived in Battlefield.
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Yes, but had Janelle actually visited in the Levitt home? From what I gather, the relationship between Jannelle and Suzie was little to non-existent. Who else refers to her "next best friend" as "the other girl?" Not exactly a ringing endorsement for friendship is it?

But this is really a sideshow to the bigger questions. The statements being made on that day, later and even today should all coincide. We don't even know who erased the messages now, do we?
 
Missouri Mule said:
Yes, but had Janelle actually visited in the Levitt home?
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 From what I gather, the relationship between Jannelle and Suzie was little to non-existent. Who else refers to her "next best friend" as "the other girl?" Not exactly a ringing endorsement for friendship is it?

But this is really a sideshow to the bigger questions. The statements being made on that day, later and even today should all coincide. We don't even know who erased the messages now, do we?

I have to be blunt. This was one of the most sloppy investigations I have ever heard of. And from what I gather most of the seasoned detectives were fully capable of proper interrogation but sent off chasing "tips" such as men in wing tipped shoes and no less than 11 psychics and following the flight patterns of buzzards in the skies. Seems to me it would have been better spent to have gotten all of the 18 or so people in separate interview rooms and ironed out any discrepancies for there appear to be numerous and conflicting stories that are unreconciable.
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You were the one who said that Janelle had never been to 1717 before that morning. I said there was ample time and reason why the dog would know Janelle because Suzie had the dog going back to when they lived in Battlefield. I think the dog’s actions with Janelle that Sunday morning demonstrates a familiarity with her. The dog didn’t cower in the corner as it might if afraid of strange humans after what it had witnessed that morning.

You said yesterday that their friendship needed to be investigated. Why not give the Pope back his chair and investigate it then? I would recommend starting with their friends and classmates who knew them best; some of whom you denigrate openly here all the time. The friends and classmates who have come here to help in the past have been turned off and driven away by all the boastful baloney and wrongful accusations that you put out.

I would also suggest that you interview the boarder who lived in the same household with Suzie and Sherrill for 18 months. She would know who Suzie’s friends were; who was at the house regularly; and how the everyday lives of Suzie and Sherrill were. And ask her why she left there.

That’s just for starters. The people who know first hand what the daily lives were like for these people. It might just change some of your opinions that you hold so high and mighty.
 
Hurricane said:
You were the one who said that Janelle had never been to 1717 before that morning. I said there was ample time and reason why the dog would know Janelle because Suzie had the dog going back to when they lived in Battlefield. I think the dog’s actions with Janelle that Sunday morning demonstrates a familiarity with her. The dog didn’t cower in the corner as it might if afraid of strange humans after what it had witnessed that morning.
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The "Disappeared" program: "I'd never been to the house before; they had just moved there recently." From the "horse's mouth." Not my words, Sir. We have no way to know if she had ever seen the dog prior to that time do we?
 
Missouri Mule said:
The "Disappeared" program: "I'd never been to the house before; they had just moved there recently." From the "horse's mouth." Not my words, Sir. We have no way to know if she had ever seen the dog prior to that time do we?
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Richard, I got no problem with that statement. I never said she had been to 1717; I never said that she hadn't. You try so hard to jump on people that you don't even bother to read the post.

Once again, you asked how the dog could know Janelle since she had said that she had not been to 1717. I said that Suzie had the dog before moving there. There is ample reason to believe that Janelle at been around the home in Battlefield, ample reason to believe she had been to the apartment that Suzie and Sherrill lived in for a year after Battlefield. That dog had plenty of previous opportunities to know Janelle. Friends and classmates, the boarder, will all verify that the dog knew Janelle.

Ever wonder why people don't share information with you and you have to constantly fish?
 
Jaya said:
Hi all! I've been stalking these boards for a long time, but have never really wanted to get involved in writing until now.

I'll just jump right in where the conversation currently is. I have a hard time buying that Janelle was unaware that she would be having family coming in from out of town for her graduation. Who says she did not know that she was gonna have people coming in from out of town. The only thing that was changing was they were not gonna be there that night because the plans was to go to Branson for the night.
It's graduation, it's important, you remember if Uncle Bob who you haven't seen since Thanksgiving is coming and staying with you. Even if her mom had told her previously and she forgot until that morning, we know based on the Disappeared piece that all the girls went and had dinner with their respective families after the ceremony before getting back together for the parties. If nothing less, Janelle would have been reminded when being with visiting out-of-town guests for dinner that evening. Would she have really forgotten again between dinner and inviting Stacy to stay with her at some point later in the evening?

The other suspicious thing about her story (well, there are many, but I'll just mention this one for now) is her assertion that when she got to the house and found the purses there and the front door unlocked and the light on, she thought that maybe they had just gone for a walk and so she sat and waited for them. Do any of you know a dog owner who goes for a walk around their neighborhood as a family on a nice summer morning and doesn't take their dog?
Click to expand...

Yes I know 3 or 4 dog owners that do not take there dogs when walking, the dog gets walked, when it is time. They walk for fitness on their own. What I find about this line of thinking is that people do not put themselves in the shoes of the people at the time. At what point does anyone start to believe something really bad has happened? I personally would not have thought that anything as bad as this could have happened. I would have been concerned and obviously when she was crying in mid afternoon she started to become concerned. Janice McCall did not think anything unexplainable had happened until late that night. This is the difference of looking at the event in hindsight, versus actions at the time.
 
Hurricane said:
Richard, I got no problem with that statement. I never said she had been to 1717; I never said that she hadn't. You try so hard to jump on people that you don't even bother to read the post.

Once again, you asked how the dog could know Janelle since she had said that she had not been to 1717. I said that Suzie had the dog before moving there. There is ample reason to believe that Janelle at been around the home in Battlefield, ample reason to believe she had been to the apartment that Suzie and Sherrill lived in for a year after Battlefield. That dog had plenty of previous opportunities to know Janelle. Friends and classmates, the boarder, will all verify that the dog knew Janelle.
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Is that a fact? Or are you guessing?

"Ample Reason" doesn't exactly meet the proof test does it?

Have you interviewed these friends and classmates or are you relying on inside police reports?
 
Missouri Mule said:
Is that a fact? Or are you guessing?

"Ample Reason" doesn't exactly meet the proof test does it?

Have you interviewed these friends and classmates or are you relying on inside police reports?
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I have interviewed them and I am not the only one to do so. As I said you might have to give up some of your strongly held beliefs and convictions in this case.
 
Missouri Mule said:
Yes, but had Janelle actually visited in the Levitt home? Yes she did they knew each other from very early in gradeschool. From what I gather, the relationship between Jannelle and Suzie was little to non-existent. Who else refers to her "next best friend" as "the other girl?" Not exactly a ringing endorsement for friendship is it?

You got nothing here, the friendship was solid, but not as good as with Stacy, they had a different sets of friends, but to even imply that she had issues with Suzie would be an error.

But this is really a sideshow to the bigger questions. The statements being made on that day, later and even today should all coincide. We don't even know who erased the messages now, do we?
Janice McCall erased one message and it was not obscene according to the disappeared video, this was easy to do by accident, on the old style answering machines.
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Hurricane said:
I have interviewed them and I am not the only one to do so. As I said you might have to give up some of your strongly held beliefs and convictions in this case.
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Well, what have we established here? I'm not the only one who finds some of the behavior troubling that day.

Do you disagree that facts that don't coincide with other facts need to be further examined?

I can give you an example. Janis McCall stated that her daughter was to spend the night at this location with her girlfriend Suzanne Streeter. Yet Stu McCall stated that she had permission to spend the night at Janelle's but not at Suzanne's.

How do you square those accounts?

I'm not sure what you mean by my "strongly held beliefs and convictions in this case." If applying common sense and looking to the facts violates some unwritten rule for police conduct in Springfield I was unaware of that.
 
To address Trooogrit's question about who said that Janelle didn't know she would have family in:

It has been established that between canceling plans to stay in Branson overnight and Suzie and Stacy going back to Delmar, the girls had planned to all stay with Janelle. But, when they got to Janelle's, she realized that this wouldn't work out because she had family staying with her- family who had come into town for her graduation. So, for her to offer the girls to stay with her and not realize her family was there until they actually arrived at her house at 2 a.m. would indicate that she didn't know they were staying there or forgot. And yes, I realize that the point about the dog is nitpicky, but there is a whole spectrum of things about the first entrances into the house that seem off. Maybe it is hindsight, or maybe it is someone only being 99% honest in their recollection.
 
Trooogrit said:
Missouri Mule said:
You got nothing here, the friendship was solid, but not as good as with Stacy, they had a different sets of friends, but to even imply that she had issues with Suzie would be an error.
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I don't believe I said she had "issues." I do believe it is correct to say that she did refer to Suzie as "the other girl." Do you not find that a curious statement?

I've not even addressed this until I kept hearing this from a half dozen other people. I then thought it was a topic worthy of discussion to clear the air.
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Missouri Mule said:
Trooogrit said:
I don't believe I said she had "issues." I do believe it is correct to say that she did refer to Suzie as "the other girl." Do you not find that a curious statement?

I've not even addressed this until I kept hearing this from a half dozen other people. I then thought it was a topic worthy of discussion to clear the air.
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It is a strange phrase for Janelle to say. But how do we know there was never any editing done to the interview Janelle said this in? Taken out of context, it could be very misleading.
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Jaya said:
To address Trooogrit's question about who said that Janelle didn't know she would have family in:

It has been established that between canceling plans to stay in Branson overnight and Suzie and Stacy going back to Delmar, the girls had planned to all stay with Janelle. But, when they got to Janelle's, she realized that this wouldn't work out because she had family staying with her- family who had come into town for her graduation. So, for her to offer the girls to stay with her and not realize her family was there until they actually arrived at her house at 2 a.m. would indicate that she didn't know they were staying there or forgot. And yes, I realize that the point about the dog is nitpicky, but there is a whole spectrum of things about the first entrances into the house that seem off. Maybe it is hindsight, or maybe it is someone only being 99% honest in their recollection.
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It is still leading towards something that is baseless. Call her up ask her, find out first hand, call her mother, just dont draw suspicion based on an interpretation of a soundbyte or a quote in the paper, this is background stuff only a reference and these questions have been asked and answered before, and remember it has been 19 years since this happened, those small details that everyone seems to seize, can be somewhat distorted with time. The story deviates very little in 19 years. The truth is easy to remember, a lie is much harder to remember.
 
Missouri Mule said:
Trooogrit said:
I don't believe I said she had "issues." I do believe it is correct to say that she did refer to Suzie as "the other girl." Do you not find that a curious statement?

I've not even addressed this until I kept hearing this from a half dozen other people. I then thought it was a topic worthy of discussion to clear the air.
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Considering all of the people in that class that were interviewed, and were at the same parties that night, do you think if there was anything that was amiss between these women in the friendships it would have been discovered? I would like to know the circumstances of that statement. When you get the whole story many things make more sense.
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Jaya said:
To address Trooogrit's question about who said that Janelle didn't know she would have family in:

It has been established that between canceling plans to stay in Branson overnight and Suzie and Stacy going back to Delmar, the girls had planned to all stay with Janelle. But, when they got to Janelle's, she realized that this wouldn't work out because she had family staying with her- family who had come into town for her graduation. So, for her to offer the girls to stay with her and not realize her family was there until they actually arrived at her house at 2 a.m. would indicate that she didn't know they were staying there or forgot. And yes, I realize that the point about the dog is nitpicky, but there is a whole spectrum of things about the first entrances into the house that seem off. Maybe it is hindsight, or maybe it is someone only being 99% honest in their recollection.
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Janelle might have made the initial offer, then was rebuked by her Mom or Stacy and Suzie didn't realize staying with Janelle meant a pallet on the floor. It would make sense to me that the girls would rather sleep in the waterbed than on the floor.
 
Trooogrit said:
It is still leading towards something that is baseless. Call her up ask her, find out first hand, call her mother, just dont draw suspicion based on an interpretation of a soundbyte or a quote in the paper, this is background stuff only a reference and these questions have been asked and answered before, and remember it has been 19 years since this happened, those small details that everyone seems to seize, can be somewhat distorted with time. The story deviates very little in 19 years. The truth is easy to remember, a lie is much harder to remember.
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Doesn't Janelle address this herself in the Disappeared piece? She makes the statement that she has always wondered what would have happened if they would have just all 3 made a pallet and slept on the floor together after all, instead of changing plans. Plus, Stacy had called her mom and told her she was staying with Janelle at around 10:30 p.m. Janice has said this numerous times in multiple interviews, and Janelle's mother verified in earlier news pieces that the girls came back to her house around 2 and she overheard their conversation about not staying there but going to Suzie's instead. I can dig up these articles tomorrow... I know I have them saved but don't have time to go through everything tonight.

From reading previous posts on the board, I didn't realize that the idea that the girls had at one point planned to stay with Janelle was something that was debated and not accepted as "fact." I only commented in response to something Hannah had said about how it would be possible that Janelle wouldn't know she had relatives coming due to lack of parental communication.

A lot of people have speculated that there was a different reasons that the girls decided not to stay with Janelle (an argument, jealousy, territorial friendships, etc) and I realize that those are getting into speculation based on isolated sound bites. I wasn't trying to cross over into that ground, I was merely pointing out that it was likely that Janelle did know she would have family staying at her house, so the invite for people to stay and then changing her mind at 2 a.m. could be something that would yield itself to these alternative interpretations.
 
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