Cause and Manner of Death

Canadian tourist Elisa Lam's death ruled an accidental drowning

Los Angeles Times
By Andrew Blankstein
June 20, 2013, 2:01 p.m.

"A Canadian tourist whose body was discovered in a water tank atop a downtown Los Angeles hotel four months ago died in an accidental drowning, coroner's officials said Thursday."

More...

LA Coroner says Elisa Lam died of an accidental drowning.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=9146264

Also, drugs were ruled out:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-elisa-lam-coroner-death-20130621,0,3154977.story

As I feared, they didn't find any evidence of foul play. Thus, they'd blame EL's mental state. At least it was deemed an "accident", since I from her blog entries, she didn't seem suicidal. However, that's a heck of a sequence of events to lead up to an accident.

Not sure if they ever found her clothes either.

I have just read in another thread no one else was involved at all... in any way. How do we know that?

I thought we did not really know how Elisa got from inside the hotel to drowned inside the tank. I know the death was ruled accidental, but that only explains what happened after she got to the tank. Is there something I have missed? I'm about to read the 5th thread (ETA, wait... I checked and I've read about 1/3 of it so far). I read the other four, the poll thread, and most of the other threads. But, I may have missed something.

eta 2
BTW, I did find out that the police said the lid was on the tank. In the photo with the fireman, the rim looks rusty showing the lid was off for a while at some point. But, when that might be may be irrelevant, IDK.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammalian_diving_reflex

The M.E. called Elisa's death 'rapid drowning'. I think perhaps they're saying mammalian diving reflex was triggered... it is so called because it automatically adjusts things to optimize chances for survival if someone is suddenly under cold water. So, in a person this happens to, their drowning (if they aren't rescued) will look different than a regular drowning. So, it would indicate perhaps a fall and being pulled under by gravity. Maybe it is the same? I've googled 'rapid drowning' with no luck.

In this case, from what I've read which is an account of someone who says it happened to them (they were rescued, but this is just what they say... I can't prove it), unconsciousness happens very quickly. They remember being pushed under, then waking up at the hospital. The similarity is it was cold, fresh water suitable for drinking in a container. The similarity ends there. The person was younger, for example.

Another factor I just thought about is maybe when the water in the tank gets below a certain level, the replacement water from the L.A. city lines pours in all of a sudden (as in a torrent of water). Does anyone know about this? It seems logical it would since the ideal situation would be to replace the used water as quickly as possible so that the hotel continues to be supplied water.

December said:

I have just read in another thread no one else was involved at all... in any way. How do we know that?

I thought we did not really know how Elisa got from inside the hotel to drowned inside the tank. I know the death was ruled accidental, but that only explains what happened after she got to the tank. Is there something I have missed? I'm about to read the 5th thread (ETA, wait... I checked and I've read about 1/3 of it so far). I read the other four, the poll thread, and most of the other threads. But, I may have missed something.

eta 2
BTW, I did find out that the police said the lid was on the tank. In the photo with the fireman, the rim looks rusty showing the lid was off for a while at some point. But, when that might be may be irrelevant, IDK.

Click to expand...

Did anyone ever interview the maintenance man to determine what position the lid was in when he came to inspect the tank? Did anyone ask him if the lid was off earlier, and put back on? And the hinge is what really bothers me. If there was a hinged mechanism to close the lid than more than likely someone else closed it - either the perpetrator or the maintenance man. I do not see any reasonable way she could fall into the tank and pull the lid down from inside while holding her whole body up.

I don't really understand how she could close the lid or how it could close on its own. Hinges or no hinges.

The only explanation I can think of that goes along with this being an accident and no one else is involved in the slightest is the lid mysteriously being off the tank is a frequent occurance at this hotel. So, sometime later than when she drowned, but before she was found, someone noticed the lid off and put it back on... which is scary because it suggests people randomly taking the lids off is just taken for granted.

I have seen the suggestion that the lid is hinged and the wind blew it closed. I just don't know if the lid is situated on the tank in the right position for that, but I have only see photos. Also, it seems the tank manufacturer, even back in the day, would make it where a gust of wind wouldn't cost a worker his life. I read tank safety standards actually began long before the hotel was constructed. So even if these tanks have been there since 1927 (which I hope they haven't), they should at least have something to prevent this. But, maybe they do and that feature has to be purposely engaged. Still, this doesn't account for stiffness of the supposed hinges and we don't know how much the lid weighs or how likely it closed by itself. However, this is the second most likely explanation for the lid being closed.

Then I read someone saying maybe she balanced the lid on her fingertips and pulled it closed in this manner. But, since this was proposed before the 'accidental drowning' was announced by officials the person may not have meant she did this by accident. But, even if one supposes she thought the lid was something else and didn't realize she was trapping herself (this will only be the case if she was misperceiving her surroundings), is this even possible? Meaning could the tank even be closed in a gradual manner.

Finally, there's this.. maybe it wasn't closed. Maybe during the dog search, the police didn't check the tanks individually. They just saw the lids on the other tanks and couldn't see this tank clearly, but assumed it would be the same.

Then, the maintenance man on the 14th might have been the one to replace the lid (if it was off). Although I question whether it really could've been off that long because sunlight would have rushed certain things along... Nonetheless, I doubt the hotel wants much talk from their employees about these lids because they weren't up to code. The tanks were supposed to have locks on them. ChelleBelle went some time after Elisa was discovered, and also after the Chinese investigator, and she found the lids are FINALLY locked. Same lids, but with padlocks added (she posted photos somewhere on here).

I think these stupid lids are important. Elisa's tank lid does look like it was exposed to the elements for a while. Meanwhile, someone (maybe just the media in their helicopter) got a photo of another one of the tank with its lid off and that lid didn't look like it had been exposed to the elements. The edges were still clean and silvery gray.

So, it is not too difficult to imagine that someone carelessly left the lid off at some point for Elisa's tank. Possibly before she encountered it, for all I know.

Sorry to ramble on.. these lids just bug me. They're important.

http://omg.yahoo.com/video/did-elisa-lam-die-193100223.html

The above link has a video from around the time Elisa was found. They talk about the lids being difficult to remove.

Interesting video. One more thing that has always made me question the suicide or accidental death theory - if we presume that Elisa in the video went basically from the elevator to the roof, how the heck did she even know where she was going? She was so blind that she had to lean in to within inches away from the buttons to even press them. I find it very hard to believe that she would be able to make it to the roof then make her way into the tank - not only was she legally blind, but it was nighttime and the roof is not lighted... So it's very dark out and she's essentially feeling around blind, and completes the fairly complicated action of getting to the back water tank, climbing up the rickety ladder, taking the top off the tank, and hoisting herself up to then squeeze herself inside the opening. This would be a bit of a task for a normal-sighted individual in the daytime, let alone a legally blind girl at night.

Nickfalzone said:

Interesting video. One more thing that has always made me question the suicide or accidental death theory - if we presume that Elisa in the video went basically from the elevator to the roof, how the heck did she even know where she was going? She was so blind that she had to lean in to within inches away from the buttons to even press them. I find it very hard to believe that she would be able to make it to the roof then make her way into the tank - not only was she legally blind, but it was nighttime and the roof is not lighted... So it's very dark out and she's essentially feeling around blind, and completes the fairly complicated action of getting to the back water tank, climbing up the rickety ladder, taking the top off the tank, and hoisting herself up to then squeeze herself inside the opening. This would be a bit of a task for a normal-sighted individual in the daytime, let alone a legally blind girl at night.

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Yes, I have been taking note of the firemen. They are taller and much better upper body strength than Elisa. Also it was day and I assume they all have good vision. Oh, and none of them are wearing sandals.

Watching them, it seems more likely that if she was going to have an accident it would be to topple off the tank and, depending on the direction she fell, the ground might be 15 floors down. To avoid that, I guess it had to be a climb up the wooden ladder then straight into the tank.

Also, other than the tanks and that one little room, the roof is just a big empty expanse. maybe if you could see the view would be cool. but if you can't... it'd be about like a parking lot.

December said:

Yes, I have been taking note of the firemen. They are taller and much better upper body strength than Elisa. Also it was day and I assume they all have good vision. Oh, and none of them are wearing sandals.

Watching them, it seems more likely that if she was going to have an accident it would be to topple off the tank and, depending on the direction she fell, the ground might be 15 floors down. To avoid that, I guess it had to be a climb up the wooden ladder then straight into the tank.

Click to expand...

I'm making assumptions here, but it seems unlikely that she would have been familiar at all with the layout of the roof prior to getting into the tank. So she's basically blind, it's night-time, wearing sandals, and she is in unfamiliar surroundings... For sure, it is not impossible, but the likelihood of her accomplishing this with those details stacked against her seems exceedingly low. One more thing about the severe near-sightedness - it always seemed strange to me that outside the elevator she appeared to be talking/motioning to the ground in front of her. If you can't see someones face when you are talking to them, you may very well hold your head down or in a weird position. She could very well have been talking to someone by the washrooms, but didn't look specifically in that direction because she couldn't see.

It is puzzling how she did it. Especially without leaving a trail for the dogs to follow. Since I figured the dogs came up the steps from inside the hotel, then I thought that left the fire escapes as the only option for Elisa to get to the roof without walking exactly where the dogs would be sniffing.

Elisa is athletic, I believe. So, she might be a bit stronger than she looks. And she was well coordinated from playing sports. But, not being able to see seems to be a huge problem. Even if her vision wasn't quite as bad as the elevator video would indicate, there is the consideration that it is dark.

I think my vision is worse than hers, but to me those tanks and the room beside them would've blended into one thing from a distance. I'm afraid of heights, so the hotel would HAVE to be on fire to get me on a fire escape. Elisa might have been more adventurous than me, however.

This is a weird thing and I don't know that it applies to Elisa, but I've seen videos of hypnotized people who could navigate things better under hypnosis than on their own. These tapes were absolutely not from stage hypnotists or anything like that. I'm not saying she was hypnotized at all, but if a similar state of mind can be achieved without intervention by another person maybe that explains how she did these things.

Oh, I found out why Elisa might have been so excited at the bookstore (if she was), they have thousands of books for only $1. If she went to get presents for her family and found she could get many more things than she first thought, as well as things for herself... that might make her overbuy on what she could carry. I know I would be excited as heck to find out such a thing! Anyway, this seems to possibly less of a manic episode than it first appeared. Maybe.

Anyway, I like to think of her, super happy to get a ton of books. Books are awesome.

I'm new here but I did read everything on this forum and all else online that I could. Still excuse my overlooking a huge point if I do. Does it seem unreasonable that someone forced her to walk up the ladder, strip, and jump in at gun- or knifepoint? Sure, I'd scream, flail, refuse, etc... but maybe her fragile emotional/mental state (if we believe she was experiencing one) made her do otherwise. Or maybe her fear compunded with thoughts that it may be a better thing to die than go through what might happen or what she had been through before (she did experience rape at 17 according to her blog).
Having read her tumblr and other blog it seems very likely to me that she would leave a note if she intended to commit suicide. She seemed to be a very contemplative girl who felt compelled to share her thoughts and feelings. One last cryptic post could convince me, but straight from fashion posts to suicide doesn't seem plausible. It seems unlikely to me that she fell, unless she climbed the tower to see the view and fell in the open hole. That doesn't explain her nudity, however. I can see her clothing maybe being pulled off in the tank but not the watch. Just my opinions. Does anyone have any reasons to doubt this or should I go on thinkin' it? I know not many people have posted in a while but I can't stop thinking about this case!

Sillybilly said:

This is the only other direct quote i can find on the net by Ed Winters:

from:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/22/us-usa-missingtourist-idUSBRE91I1BY20130222



So many of the articles are just cookie cutters ... one media outlet writes it up and 400 others do a copy and paste, possibly put a tch of their own spin into it, and leave the impression all over the place that hundreds of newspapers have said it.

Interesting that his answers are questions, some of which he probably already knows the answer to but didn't share with the media. Heh heh ... good spokesperson who can make folks feel they got something, when in fact they got zilch. JMO

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There was no water in her lungs