Menendez Brothers and Casey

cecybeans said:

Well the Menendez brothers got their spiffy little ideas from movies and it appears that ICA is good at that, too.

The movies rented at Blockbuster that night had someone taped up in the trunk in one and a child kidnapped in another, and it still haunts me that her "favorite movie" she advertised on some social network site much earlier was Natural Born Killers in which Juliette Lewis plays Mallory Knox, a girl who gets her boyfriend to kill her abusive father and enabling mother before they go on an angry, but highly publicized and sensational, killing spree of innocent bystanders.

I think this girl has been using movies and TV to invent herself for years. Her lying was legendary, even to kids she knew since childhood like Kiomarie and Ryan. Since she doesn't seem very original and had plenty of time to study tv and movies, I'm guessing she got a lot of her other stories about herself right out of the media.

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Very interesting points. And the fact that one of Casey's "imaginary friends" from Universal was named Juliette Lewis is kind of chilling.

Jovi Girl said:

Susan Smith confessed and led police to where her babies were, after being called out on her lies by law enforcement. Casey, sticking with her story and someone else had to find her baby.

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I meant that both women killed their children and both claimed sexual abuse during the trial.

Well I'm glad you brought up this comparison between the cases...it seems that when all else fails, liars will claim sexual abuse to try to get away with murder.

I think Baez got wind of this from interviews prior to the jail house letters and spoon fed the story to her personally. I realize she had previously mentioned sexual abuse, but I agree with the poster(s) who believe she did this for sympathy from boyfriends...(get me out of my house; rescue me from this terrbile living situation) and to handily play the role of victim.

Because Casey is such an accomplished liar with many, many years of experience, bad on her; because if it is true, it's just too hard to believe her at this point. Pity (not).

In my experience as soon as a bully gets held accountable for their bullying they will claim victimhood, and often it's their victims they accuse of victimizing them. It's just another chess move for them. Humans without empathy are terrifying creatures.

lowens1975 said:

I remember something about a "One Tree Hill" episode where the 'nanny' snatched a baby. Wasn't that something found when forensics searched the home computer?

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Yes I remember that too....

Saffron said:

Very interesting points. And the fact that one of Casey's "imaginary friends" from Universal was named Juliette Lewis is kind of chilling.

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Yeah, that's a little weird.

It is far MORE weird that in the movie Juliette's character is a girl named Mallory.

Mallory is Casey's future sister in law.


When was Juliette created?

When was Juliette first mentioned to somebody?

When Casey worked at Universal (for real, not for Casey land.)

When Caylee was born?

When Caylee got her "nanny?"

We know it was before Caylee went missing because they would talk about going to play with Juliette's daughter.


Because Mallory has been around since 2006 dating Lee, I wonder if she was known as a friend before then? That is one really big coincidence if it was not intentional.

Who came first, the real Mallory or the invented Juliette? :waitasec:

I looked through the cast of the movie and didn't see anyone else familiar. Both characters and the cast members. (I mean other than OJ Simpson. None of Casey's imaginary friends.)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110632/fullcredits

Grammy Jean said:

Does anyone think Casey may have gotten possible sexual abuse idea from this case?

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If she and her team did, they should have looked at their outcome.

Quiche said:

I had to read a refresher on these men, and I am struck with a few similarities, particularly in their upbringing. Spoiled, indulged, failing at school, lusting after the parent's lifestyle, going on spending sprees after the murder, and blaming sexual abuse as a reason for their crime.

With KC, though-- Caylee never hurt a hair on her head.

Lyle and Erik Menendez - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Interesting! I never really followed the Menendez trial - which is good because I would have totally lost it after watching every detail televised and having to accept the hung jury, followed by a completely non-televised trial while sitting and wondering what was happening! Oh, the stress!!

Another interesting tidbit from the wiki page: Both brothers filed motions for a mistrial, claiming that they suffered irreparable damage in the penalty phase as a result of suggestions of possible misconduct and ineffective representation by Abramson.

Welp, let's see if ICA files for ineffective representation and/or irreparable damage for all the bad things said about her. I mean after all, one only has to watch her face during the testimony to see how distraught she is over it all...

LolaMoon08 said:

BBM - Funny you mention that because I have always believed the reason Casey stringed along so many men and the reason she told some of them about the abuse (I believe Mark Hawkins was next) that she was looking for the perfect male partner to commit the ultimate crime for her... or with her.

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Wow, that's an interesting thought. Because one thing that strikes me through this trial is how many, many decent young adults ICA was surrounded by back then. Sure, there was some pot smoking and partying, but most of these friends had jobs, were in school, were seemingly generous with each other when someone needed a couch to crash on or help with a car breakdown - none strikes me as a criminal type (save perhaps one of them I won't name) and all stepped up to speak with LE and now invest their time and energy through testifying respectfully far from home. I can't imagine how ICA could have thought any of these people would be so enamored with her they'd join her on the dark side.

It also strikes me that after she did away with her sweet baby girl, the sheer volume of GOOD, smart, caring, professional people that put untold man hours into finding Caylee, trying to wring info out of ICA and then trying to bring about some justice. I'm floored with the months and years of really good people's lives that have been dedicated to this case. All because one woman wanted shopping sprees at Target and unencumbered time to party at local bars. Such a waste.

Reading that the Menendez brothers did the same thing (only a more upscale version) - or that Scott Peterson tried to sell his house furnished while his wife was still "missing" - yeah. Insanity at work.

wallflower67 said:

I think JB did and the he asked Casey, "Are you sure you were never sexually abused as a child?"

I know the DT can't make up a story for the defendent, but what would prevent them from suggesting it and let the compulsive liar take it from there?

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I think the accident and sexual abuse allegations started and evolved from around the time the jailhouse letters emerged. The letters were made public around March 2010, just as she was declared indigent and Cheney Mason joined the defense team. :waitasec:

Prior to this they were going with "stranger abduction." Those were the words Todd Macaluso used in September 2009 whilst sitting alongside LKB and JB on national tv.

krisskross said:

I think the accident and sexual abuse allegations started and evolved around the time the jailhouse letters emerged. The letters were made public around March 2010, just as she was declared indigent and Cheney Mason joined the defense team. :waitasec:

Prior to this they were going with "stranger abduction." Those were the words Todd Macaluso used in September 2009 whilst sitting alongside LKB ad JB on national tv.

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Thanks for this timeline.

During the trial, we've re-watched the jail visit where GA said he would do anything to help her and would trade places with her in a heartbeat if he could(paraphrased). Casey (and DT) may well have seen this as an opportunity.

I felt George was slow to answer "no" to the prosecution question of whether he had sexually abused the defendant Where was the "no, never" or "I have never abused my daughter in any way." I guess we'll get a clearer picture during the defense portion whether GA is going to clearly deny the accusations OR weakly deny the accusations to plant a little doubt.

Spyglass said:

Thanks for this timeline.

During the trial, we've re-watched the jail visit where GA said he would do anything to help her and would trade places with her in a heartbeat if he could(paraphrased). Casey (and DT) may well have seen this as an opportunity.

I felt George was slow to answer "no" to the prosecution question of whether he had sexually abused the defendant Where was the "no, never" or "I have never abused my daughter in any way." I guess we'll get a clearer picture during the defense portion whether GA is going to clearly deny the accusations OR weakly deny the accusations to plant a little doubt.

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I agree George has never denied the allegations forcefully. And I'm sure the defense team will take advantage of that. They will also attempt to bring out every skeleton in George Anthony's extensive cupboard. They will not only try to paint him as an abuser but as a liar and a low life who had an affair when his grandchild was missing. River Cruz will be used to show that George was participating in a charade when driving his billboard around. The accident that snowballed out of control statement conveniently ties in with their defense theory. George visiting LE and not wanting his family to know will be twisted accordingly.

Constrained somewhat by the hearsay rules, I don't know how much they can malign George during their case in chief, but no doubt he is in for a mauling by Baez. Hopefully, George's lawyer can prepare him for the onslaught. It's going to be as savage as Judge Perry and the law allows.

PS I fully believe Cheney Mason helped big time to shape this defense strategy, but I doubt he will do any of the direct examination of George himself.

Spyglass said:

Thanks for this timeline.

During the trial, we've re-watched the jail visit where GA said he would do anything to help her and would trade places with her in a heartbeat if he could(paraphrased). Casey (and DT) may well have seen this as an opportunity.

I felt George was slow to answer "no" to the prosecution question of whether he had sexually abused the defendant Where was the "no, never" or "I have never abused my daughter in any way." I guess we'll get a clearer picture during the defense portion whether GA is going to clearly deny the accusations OR weakly deny the accusations to plant a little doubt.

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I think when GA answered "no" to the prosecution's question of sexual abuse it was slow because it showed him to be very sad and broken over what I believe to be one more "lie" by KC and the DT. Remember Bill Clinton once replied in a very forceful," I never had sexual relations with that woman"" and we know how that turned out. I believe GA was sad and broken, fully realizing now the full extent of the evil that is KC.

When Baez did his opening statement he said "there has to be some REASON she is like this!" (then he went on to describe molestation by George and in a more mild form, by Lee). Baez may have gotten the incest idea from here or any of the other discussion groups where "there must be some reason why she is like this" was often a topic.

From the onset I have been an observer who has been quite convinced that there was indeed a "reason" for KC's pathology and logic dictates that it is sexual abuse. HOWEVER, Here is how it is playing: I've watched the trial every day and now I've switched sides to be in the "I-don't-care-what-happened-to-her-there-is-no-excuse-for-killing-Caylee camp"! I have been a KC sympathizer to a certain degree, but I have been turned around 100% to join the "other side".

Baez is attacking everyone on the stand. Why does he feel he has to do this if the drowning scenario is true? This, together with the cold uncaring demeanor of his client has "unsold" me on incest.

Baez got his ideas from a couple of places. Discussion groups and possibly the OJ Simpson trial, where the defense attacked every single witness on every single subject. It's very ineffective, I believed her to be an incest victim before Baez started questioning...but now, due to his smarmy tactics, I've completely changed my mind!

Dysthymia said:

I don't think Casey or Jose Baez got the sexual abuse story from the Menendez brothers trial. But, IIRC, the Menendez brothers were quite prepared for their trial in a way Casey Anthony doesn't appear to be. In contrast with Casey's hair and clothing, the brothers wore spiffy little sweaters and gave the attitude that they were intelligent, well dressed victims of their evil parents. I think that one brother testified on both brothers behalf with the proper tones of fear, regret, and tears. They had psychiatric testimony, too. None of it worked, but in contrast, Casey has nothing but Baez.

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bbm : but it almost worked. i don't know if casey or JB got any idea's from the menendez case, but it did almost work for them. of course they had excellent attnys while "casey has nothing but Baez".

Spyglass said:

Thanks for this timeline.

During the trial, we've re-watched the jail visit where GA said he would do anything to help her and would trade places with her in a heartbeat if he could(paraphrased). Casey (and DT) may well have seen this as an opportunity.

I felt George was slow to answer "no" to the prosecution question of whether he had sexually abused the defendant Where was the "no, never" or "I have never abused my daughter in any way." I guess we'll get a clearer picture during the defense portion whether GA is going to clearly deny the accusations OR weakly deny the accusations to plant a little doubt.

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In addition to being sad and heartbroken that he was even being asked that in open court.... I think he was exhausted as this was towards the end of the day on redirect.... and he was looking down at what I believe was a picture of Caylee to gather strength to answer the question...

I think he also had to be in some amount of shock. Even with letters insinuating this a year earlier... even knowing they would likely accuse him of this... that level of detail was not expected. The Anthony's attorney even said that after opening statements.

George had to be stunned that Baez really went that far. He had to know that by denying the allegations he was not helping his daughter. Yet, also had to know he had no choice. For once, he had to stand up to his daughter. She has destroyed enough.


Imagine after your granddaughter being missing for 6 months, been found dead.

The media and protestors are camped outside your house, finding out all these things about your own daughter.

Your own daughter is charged with your granddaughter's murder, you have already attempted suicide...

Then you are accused on national TV of hiding your granddaughter's body and molesting your own daughter.


I don't think I would be quick to answer such a direct, heartbreaking question either.

cecybeans said:

Well the Menendez brothers got their spiffy little ideas from movies and it appears that ICA is good at that, too.

The movies rented at Blockbuster that night had someone taped up in the trunk in one and a child kidnapped in another, and it still haunts me that her "favorite movie" she advertised on some social network site much earlier was Natural Born Killers in which Juliette Lewis plays Mallory Knox, a girl who gets her boyfriend to kill her abusive father and enabling mother before they go on an angry, but highly publicized and sensational, killing spree of innocent bystanders.

I think this girl has been using movies and TV to invent herself for years. Her lying was legendary, even to kids she knew since childhood like Kiomarie and Ryan. Since she doesn't seem very original and had plenty of time to study tv and movies, I'm guessing she got a lot of her other stories about herself right out of the media.

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I haven't seen a whole lot about what type of person ICA was as a child and teenager. I didn't know her lying was legendary. Was there anything else unusual? Where can I read more about her pre-2006? Thanks!

I think she could have gotten the idea from the Menendez brothers, or from countless other stories. My guess is that its a combination of her tall tales and some help from her defense team.

I actually believed the Menendez brothers. They showed emotion. They never denied killing their parents, just gave an excuse of massive abuse which was explained well by their defense. I agree with ther guilty verdict because abuse is not an excuse for criminal, violent behavior; but I think it did help explain their motive and personalities. This is not the same with ICA. She told lie after lie to keep police from finding her CHILD. I don't care how much abuse there may have been or not. Abuse causes PTSD but it does not cause sociopathy.

Did some reading on the Menendez brothers case, yes, it's certain now; I could never be a defense lawyer.

HopeInOhio said:

I haven't seen a whole lot about what type of person ICA was as a child and teenager. I didn't know her lying was legendary. Was there anything else unusual? Where can I read more about her pre-2006? Thanks!

I think she could have gotten the idea from the Menendez brothers, or from countless other stories. My guess is that its a combination of her tall tales and some help from her defense team.

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If you read the depos of her friends, Kiomarie, Ryan P, I think even Annie D, and of course even Jesse, they all make mention of her prodigious lies. Jesse even calls it "diabolical" and that's even when he can't bring himself to believe she hurt Caylee. Unfortunately she doesn't have a lot of friends from earlier on involved in this - I'm thinking that many of them tended to move on when either they got tired of lies or started missing things, lol. She seems like the kind of person that had to reinvent herself from time to time after she was found out. WS has an excellent Search function and a lot of the transcripts are in the sticky threads. Have fun sleuthing through them!

Commonalities.. parents enabled them financially, did not expect or enforce responsible behavior, and likely covered for their shortcomings to look like successful parents.