Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #65~ the appeal~

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A news report by Denise Ni She (A Pistorian)

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Oscar-Pistorius-A-Case-of-Non-Preferential-Treatment-20151029

A sad feature of South African society is the high instances of people being killed or seriously injured during home invasions. It is therefore not surprising that there are incidents of intruders killed and sadly also family members killed mistaken for intruders. However the impression created by the State and media is such instances must be rare and that Oscar was somehow unique in both believing there was an intruder and fearing an intruder. What is also unique in this case is how, at each step, Oscar is apparently viewed and treated differently to other similar cases and certainly has not been given anything that could be considered preferential treatment. The media have taken every opportunity to argue erroneously that he is somehow privileged that the verdict, judgment, his incarceration in the hospital section of the prison, his release to house arrest was further evidence of his preferential treatment...........
 
Interested Bystander said:
A news report by Denise Ni She (A Pistorian)

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Oscar-Pistorius-A-Case-of-Non-Preferential-Treatment-20151029

A sad feature of South African society is the high instances of people being killed or seriously injured during home invasions. It is therefore not surprising that there are incidents of intruders killed and sadly also family members killed mistaken for intruders. However the impression created by the State and media is such instances must be rare and that Oscar was somehow unique in both believing there was an intruder and fearing an intruder. What is also unique in this case is how, at each step, Oscar is apparently viewed and treated differently to other similar cases and certainly has not been given anything that could be considered preferential treatment. The media have taken every opportunity to argue erroneously that he is somehow privileged that the verdict, judgment, his incarceration in the hospital section of the prison, his release to house arrest was further evidence of his preferential treatment...........
Click to expand...

Plenty to agree with in this..
 
While home invasions may be very common, it would be more helpful to know how common they are in high-security estates like Silverwoods. I'm guessing very very few compared with normal homes. I think when we read how common intruder killings are, it's not in high-security estates with electric fencing, armed guards and security cameras. I bet they're not common at all, which is no doubt why OP chose to live there.
 
soozieqtips said:
While home invasions may be very common, it would be more helpful to know how common they are in high-security estates like Silverwoods. I'm guessing very very few compared with normal homes. I think when we read how common intruder killings are, it's not in high-security estates with electric fencing, armed guards and security cameras. I bet they're not common at all, which is no doubt why OP chose to live there.
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I posted this because I thought it was typical of Pistorians who just cannot see the wood for the trees. Do they ever sit down and think about what they say? She belongs to the Pistorius support group I believe.
 
Interested Bystander said:
I posted this because I thought it was typical of Pistorians who just cannot see the wood for the trees.
Do they ever sit down and think about what they say? She belongs to the Pistorius support group I believe.
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BIB - I don't think they do. OP in his guarded estate lived in a different world compared with regular people who were actually at risk. OP's brave 'intruder' would have had to have scaled an electric fence, somehow got past armed guards, security cameras and guard dogs - and then very quietly and invisibly climbed a ladder to get into a small bathroom. I'm sure all the Silverwood residents lived in mortal fear of that happening all the time!!
 
Angelonline

I think the reason you've had no reply is because we really don't know. This is the best I can offer from the SCA itself, and there’s nothing else of interest in the link.

"A written judgment is usually handed down shortly after the argument."

http://www.justice.gov.za/sca/aboutsca.htm

All 5 judges will already have read the trial transcript together with the Heads of Argument re the appeal. I imagine they have already made up their minds by now subject only to listening to oral argument. The court has allowed one day for this appeal, although Barry Roux said his argument would take 5 hours - which I don’t believe he’ll be granted.

Once the appeal is over on Tuesday the court will no doubt announce when it's decision will be handed down. We may have to wait a couple of weeks at most.
 
Further to my post above ...

Legal experts said the case hinges on whether OP could have known he could kill someone while firing gunshots through the bathroom door. They also said judges should be quick with a judgement.

Pretoria criminal lawyer Karen van Eck said the state's challenge of the original verdict of culpable homicide is relatively simple and it shouldn't take the court long to reach a decision.

"The judges should have reached before the appeal starts," she said of Tuesday's hearing”. She said they'll fire questions at the prosecution and defence so that they can clear up any remaining doubts they may have".

A written verdict is expected within days of the hearing.

The appeals court judges "have to decide whether he should have foreseen that someone could have died when he fired the shots," said Adrie Hechter, a criminal lawyer based in Bloemfontein. He also said if the verdict is changed to murder, the appeals court itself can change the sentence or they can refer it back to the High Court.

http://www.dpa-international.com/ne...jail-appeal-hearing-to-decide-a-46862711.html
 
soozieqtips said:
While home invasions may be very common, it would be more helpful to know how common they are in high-security estates like Silverwoods. I'm guessing very very few compared with normal homes. I think when we read how common intruder killings are, it's not in high-security estates with electric fencing, armed guards and security cameras. I bet they're not common at all, which is no doubt why OP chose to live there.
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Indeed, and that's why OP and Carice could sleep comfortably at night knowing they had either of the follwoing
with balcony windows open,
alarms that may not be fully functional
ladders outside and
broken window panes.
 
cottonweaver said:
Indeed, and that's why OP and Carice could sleep comfortably at night knowing they had either of the follwoing
with balcony windows open,
alarms that may not be fully functional
ladders outside and
broken window panes.
Click to expand...


Yes, all things are very far from equal in SA. One doesn't leave windows/balcony doors open if there is even a small threat to one's life. Not only Carice and OP, but the Standers and the Johnsons left their balcony doors open and yet OP claims he is fearful for his safety within his home. Says a lot, does it not. Life and justice in the SA is definitely different for the "Haves" and the "Have Nots". If money can buy justice, ie by ensuring that your case is heard quickly and not being banged up for years for relatively minor offences, there is still something very rotten in SA. We all know SA is not the safest of countries but how anyone can compare OP's situation with a "guy in the street" stumps me.
 
Mr Fossil and JJ. Having been left totally confused after reading Woolmarans' report, I dwelt further on RS's back injuries.

What if, when collapsing after the hip shot, she momentarily twisted to face more to the right (as we view scene), so her back was at an angle to the ricochet point F which would permit the bullet/fragments to hit her back and ricochet from it into the toilet bowl. That also might account for the small haemorrhages seen around the back injuries, ie tiny fragments or even ceramic splinters from the tiling.

We know the hip shot would have caused her to be very unstable and I think it very likely she did swivel at this point. One of the reasons this seems a possibility to me is that a few years ago I had a fractured ball joint in my hip which, until surgery, caused me to twist if I attempted to weight bear, ie the leg would collapse, my knee came forward and I know I twisted at the same time. Could she have twisted enough to present her back at the right angle to be hit and for the fragment to drop into the toilet? Just another thought.
 
Interested Bystander said:
I have now read Woolmarans' report. I didn't know of its existence. I wish I had. His report certainly seems more cogent than his testimony, although that had to contain the same detail. It also makes it very much easier to picture what happened. Not that it has helped me much LOL. I am now at a total loss to try and make sense of the back wounds.

I totally agree about 5 experts not really agreeing. So why not add a 6th. The larger of the back wounds does look as though the force of "whatever" hit her has pushed the skin in one direction (which is exactly what a bullet/fragment would do) but I can see it could be many other objects that might have created the marks, ie the handle of the gun. He too could have jabbed her in the back with the cricket bat. I firmly believe she was screaming as she left the bedroom and ran down the corridor. What was he threatening her with, or maybe he had already hit her back with something fairly hard? He also had a baseball bat in the bedroom, did he not? The mind boggles.
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In the early days of investigation there was something about Reeva's top, something with "front and rear reversed" or similar. I remember (vague as you see) to have thought about if OP had dressed her after shooting. Don't know if possible with an nearly "amputated" arm.
Is there the chance that Reeva wasn't dressed before shooting or dressed with some other clothing? Would that change anything with the result of tests?
 
FromGermany said:
In the early days of investigation there was something about Reeva's top, something with "front and rear reversed" or similar. I remember (vague as you see) to have thought about if OP had dressed her after shooting. Don't know if possible with an nearly "amputated" arm.
Is there the chance that Reeva wasn't dressed before shooting or dressed with some other clothing? Would that change anything with the result of tests?
Click to expand...
There is a hole in the front of the vest, caused by the bullet which went through Reeva's arm and bruised her chest.
 
Interested Bystander said:
I have read, somewhere along the line that fragments can skip, rather like a stone on water. Given that we are talking of a very bony area (RS was indeed very thin), could that be a possibility?

I did not have any information with respect to the weight of the fragment pieces and that obviously rules out the 2 fragments in the magazine rack, neither of which were big enough to cause the injuries. I listened to Mangena's testimony but I am sure he did not mention weights or could it be that the SABC recording was incomplete? Was the information provided in court by someone else? I have not listened to Botha. Maybe I should have done.

Another interesting piece of information I have gleaned from reading is that if the large fragment hit her it could bear an imprint of the pattern of her vest. I wonder whether anyone was diligent enough to look for this. Also, of course, it was the Defence who found it, if I remember correctly and maybe it was handled, cleaned, etc and any trace of evidence removed in that way, I assume unintentionally. If the fragment hit the side of the toilet, the pattern, if it existed, could easily have been reformed from the force.
Click to expand...

bbm :giggle:
 
Mr Fossil said:
There is a hole in the front of the vest, caused by the bullet which went through Reeva's arm and bruised her chest.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I didn't know (any more).
Btw I have twittered your investigations. :)
 
Format of Proceedings:
The Appellant’s Counsel will start presenting the arguments followed by the Respondent’s arguments, thereafter the Appellant’s Counsel will be given an opportunity to reply. This may take as long as is required. The presiding Judge will direct the proceedings up to the conclusion of the arguments. The case is set down for one day only. The Judges will determine when the judgment will be delivered.

All media personnel and members of the public are to be seated by 09h45

http://www.judiciary.org.za/doc/MED...OR-THE-OSCAR-PISTORIUS-MATTER_28-Oct-2015.pdf
 
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