Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.14.17 - Day 15

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Back on. Can someone post tweets? Can't from my phone.
 
Inspector_North ,exactly , he will say "are you sure now those are grommets you can say that with 100% accuracy. ? they knew all this information from the first trial so much evidence was left to the death of Laura.
 

Adam Carter

We're now back in session. The jury is returning. #LauraBabcock

We're now continuing with Crown Katie Doherty continuing her examination in chief. She's again showing photos of the Eliminator. #LauraBabcock

Penner says the length of The Eliminator is about 7 feet, and the width about 4 feet. #LauraBabcock

Penner says the burn chamber volume of the incinerator is about 23 cubic feet. #LauraBabcock

The Crown asks if it's common to put an incinerator like this on a trailer. Penner says no, this is the first time he'd ever seen it done. #LauraBabcock

Penner says he was contacted by Shane Schlatman back in June of 2012. "He was looking for an incinerator to do some custom incinerating, to go around farm to farm." #LauraBabcock



Penner says he provided copies of emails between he and Schlatman to police. #LauraBabcock

We're now seeing emails between Schlatman and Penner about the incinerator. #LauraBabcock

The email is from June 19. "Hi shane, here are the quotes for the 250lb and 500 lb unit," it reads. #LauraBabcock
 
Adam Carter

The email also mentions a "roll back lid" that's really good for "bigger animals," Penner says. It seems in the email that Schlatman didn't want that. #LauraBabcock

First we're seeing a quote for a 250 pound unit -- it costs $13,040. #LauraBabcock

We're also seeing a quote for a $500 pound unit. That one costs $15,090. #LauraBabcock
 
So with the latest Mob Reporter video I was able to clean up the text messages for July 3-4 on the timeline. Some observations:

MM was at Maple Gate
It looks like MS and MM were both at Maple Gate during July 3, overnight to July 4, and throughout the day on July 4. Perhaps we'll hear more details of what happened in that time when MM gets on the stand?

The "heini"
IMO the present that DM left for MS at the top of the stairs was just a pack of beer.

Did MS have a clue what was happening that night (July 3)?
It seems that after picking up LB and bringing her back to Maple Gate, DM went back out again around 7:30pm. MS was still at Maple Gate and suggesting they get some food when DM returned. He had also asked for some change to get food. IMO it doesn't seem like MS is aware of or getting ready for a pending murder mission.

Was MS present for LB's murder?
There's a 5 hour window between when DM tells MS he's "on a mission, back in 1 hour," and when MS later asks, "Where u at?" The window is July 3 at 7:33pm to July 4 at 12:42am. Anything could have happened in that time, but it's difficult to tell whether MS was ever with DM.

Let's say DM returned to Maple Gate around 8:30pm, then "hit the vapes and tripped out for a bit", and then regained his senses around 1:00am. MS, expecting to have heard from DM earlier, was then asking "Where u at?" at 12:42am. So perhaps they never actually met up earlier.

Then, at 2am MS wants to talk to DM but DM says he's going to sleep and they'll talk in the morning. MS doesn't respond until 9am in the morning when he says, "Aight."

Based on all of this, it's not clear whether MS even saw DM in person during the evening of July 3 and through until the morning of July 4. IMO until we hear further evidence, MS could have a good argument to say he wasn't present if/when LB was killed. At this point I haven't heard any evidence to suggest that MS was involved in the planning/deliberation aspect, either.

DM does all the work
DM seems to be doing everything by himself on July 4. He rolled his first spliff, drove to Waterloo and the farm, and eventually returned to Maple Gate in the afternoon. Meanwhile, it seems MS was sleeping the whole time. DM texted MS, "Back before 4pm" and, "Left some dough on the coffee table in the basement," so if MS did return to Oakville that day, it likely wasn't until later in the evening.

Who pulled all-nighters?
At 2am DM told MS he was going to sleep and they'd talk in the morning. So it seems like DM did sleep that night. Or alternatively, he stayed awake but just said that to defer talking to MS until later. In either case, it puts distance between DM and MS for that time period.

If MS didn't get up until 3:20pm then it seems he didn't get much sleep. Was he just getting drunk in the basement with MM? From his 3:21pm text, "How's the spliff?", he seems to understand what that means. This suggests that either he was involved in killing LB, or DM filled him in about it at some point (say, in the morning).
 
Adam Carter

Now seeing another email between Penner and Schlatman. Schlatman says "I forwarded prices to my boss. I will let you know within a day or so of his decision. Thanks again for all your help." In the email signature, it says MillardAir MRO. #LauraBabcock

Penner says the "boss" was Millard, but he only dealt with Schlatman. #LauraBabcock

Penner says the machine was sent to the MillardAir hangar at the Waterloo airport. #LauraBabcock
 
billandrew said:
So with the latest Mob Reporter video I was able to clean up the text messages for July 3-4 on the timeline. Some observations:

MM was at Maple Gate
It looks like MS and MM were both at Maple Gate during July 3, overnight to July 4, and throughout the day on July 4. Perhaps we'll hear more details of what happened in that time when MM gets on the stand?

The "heini"
IMO the present that DM left for MS at the top of the stairs was just a pack of beer.

Did MS have a clue what was happening that night (July 3)?
It seems that after picking up LB and bringing her back to Maple Gate, DM went back out again around 7:30pm. MS was still at Maple Gate and suggesting they get some food when DM returned. He had also asked for some change to get food. IMO it doesn't seem like MS is aware of or getting ready for a pending murder mission.

Was MS present for LB's murder?
There's a 5 hour window between when DM tells MS he's "on a mission, back in 1 hour," and when MS later asks, "Where u at?" The window is July 3 at 7:33pm to July 4 at 12:45am. Anything could have happened in that time, but it's difficult to tell whether MS was ever with DM.

Let's say DM returned to Maple Gate around 8:30pm, then "hit the vapes and tripped out for a bit", and then regained his senses around 1:00am. MS, expecting to have heard from DM earlier, was then asking "Where u at?" at 12:42am. So perhaps they never actually met up earlier.

Then, at 2am MS wants to talk to DM but DM says he's going to sleep and they'll talk in the morning. MS doesn't respond until 9am in the morning when he says, "Aight."

Based on all of this, it's not clear whether MS even saw DM in person during the evening of July 3 and through till the morning of July 4. IMO until we hear further evidence, MS could have a good argument to say he wasn't present if/when LB was killed. At this point I haven't heard any evidence to suggest that MS was involved in the planning/deliberation aspect, either.

DM does all the work
DM seems to be doing everything by himself on July 4. He rolled his first spliff, drove to Waterloo and the farm, and eventually returned to Maple Gate in the afternoon. Meanwhile, it seems MS was sleeping the whole time. DM texted MS, "Back before 4pm" and, "Left some dough on the coffee table in the basement," so if MS did return to Oakville that day, it likely wasn't until later in the evening.

Who pulled all-nighters?
At 2am DM told MS he was going to sleep and they'd talk in the morning. So it seems like DM did sleep that night. Or alternatively, he stayed awake but just said that to defer talking to MS until later. In either case, it puts distance between DM and MS for that time period.

If MS didn't get up until 3:20pm then it seems he didn't get much sleep. Was he just getting drunk in the basement with MM? From his 3:21pm text, "How's the spliff?", he seems to understand what that means. This suggests that either he was involved in killing LB, or DM filled him in about it at some point (say, in the morning).
Click to expand...

I must have read some texts backwards. But I agree. I don't think MS was aware of what was going on. MM was in the house. DM rolled the tarp and took LB's body to the farm himself.
 
Adam Carter

Now a response email from Schlatman: "Hi Bill, my boss would like to order the SN500. No roll up door please just the plain lift open door and using propane to fuel it." #LauraBabcock

Penner says they can be fuelled with diesel, propane or natural gas. #LauraBabcock
 
Adam Carter

Penner responds on getting a price and estimated time of arrival. #LauraBabcock

Penner then responds with a quote about shipping the SN500 with an afterburner, and the payment method options for a downpayment. #LauraBabcock
 
paris_paris said:
I think you have your texts backwards after "Was MS present?". It was DM asking MS "Where you at" and on from there. But I agree. I don't think MS was aware of what was going on. MM was in the house. DM rolled the tarp and to LB body to the farm himself.
Click to expand...

It's not backwards. MS asked DM, "Where u at?" at 12:42 am. Check the Mob Reporter video at 1:06:

[video=youtube;s0UhLMq6uPE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0UhLMq6uPE[/video]
 
Adam Carter

The total price with freight ended up being $15,424. #LauraBabcock

Penner says a deposit was made on the unit. #LauraBabcock

We're now seeing the packing slip for the incinerator itself. #LauraBabcock

Also seeing the documentation that would've gone with the unit to see it pass customs. #LauraBabcock
 
billandrew said:
So with the latest Mob Reporter video I was able to clean up the text messages for July 3-4 on the timeline. Some observations:

MM was at Maple Gate
It looks like MS and MM were both at Maple Gate during July 3, overnight to July 4, and throughout the day on July 4. Perhaps we'll hear more details of what happened in that time when MM gets on the stand?

The "heini"
IMO the present that DM left for MS at the top of the stairs was just a pack of beer.

Did MS have a clue what was happening that night (July 3)?
It seems that after picking up LB and bringing her back to Maple Gate, DM went back out again around 7:30pm. MS was still at Maple Gate and suggesting they get some food when DM returned. He had also asked for some change to get food. IMO it doesn't seem like MS is aware of or getting ready for a pending murder mission.

Was MS present for LB's murder?
There's a 5 hour window between when DM tells MS he's "on a mission, back in 1 hour," and when MS later asks, "Where u at?" The window is July 3 at 7:33pm to July 4 at 12:42am. Anything could have happened in that time, but it's difficult to tell whether MS was ever with DM.

Let's say DM returned to Maple Gate around 8:30pm, then "hit the vapes and tripped out for a bit", and then regained his senses around 1:00am. MS, expecting to have heard from DM earlier, was then asking "Where u at?" at 12:42am. So perhaps they never actually met up earlier.

Then, at 2am MS wants to talk to DM but DM says he's going to sleep and they'll talk in the morning. MS doesn't respond until 9am in the morning when he says, "Aight."

Based on all of this, it's not clear whether MS even saw DM in person during the evening of July 3 and through until the morning of July 4. IMO until we hear further evidence, MS could have a good argument to say he wasn't present if/when LB was killed. At this point I haven't heard any evidence to suggest that MS was involved in the planning/deliberation aspect, either.

DM does all the work
DM seems to be doing everything by himself on July 4. He rolled his first spliff, drove to Waterloo and the farm, and eventually returned to Maple Gate in the afternoon. Meanwhile, it seems MS was sleeping the whole time. DM texted MS, "Back before 4pm" and, "Left some dough on the coffee table in the basement," so if MS did return to Oakville that day, it likely wasn't until later in the evening.

Who pulled all-nighters?
At 2am DM told MS he was going to sleep and they'd talk in the morning. So it seems like DM did sleep that night. Or alternatively, he stayed awake but just said that to defer talking to MS until later. In either case, it puts distance between DM and MS for that time period.

If MS didn't get up until 3:20pm then it seems he didn't get much sleep. Was he just getting drunk in the basement with MM? From his 3:21pm text, "How's the spliff?", he seems to understand what that means. This suggests that either he was involved in killing LB, or DM filled him in about it at some point (say, in the morning).
Click to expand...

One question tho, wasn't it entered into cell tower ping evidence that MS's phone pinged along with DM's phone together on the early afternoon of the 4th when DM went mobile with LB already wrapped in the tarp?
 
Adam Carter

Now we're seeing the invoice for the Eliminator downpayment, for $5,000. #LauraBabcock

We're still seeing more of the documentation that went along with the sale of the incinerator.

Another email from Penner to Schlatman, saying they are "picking up the unit on Monday."
by Adam Carter 3:04 PM


"We hired a truck to pick it up ... then they load it up and then ship it directly to the destination that it's supposed to go," Penner says.
by Adam Carter 3:05 PM

Schlatman responds with his cellphone number as a contact. This is June 29, 2012.
by Adam Carter 3:05 PM
 
Jasper52 said:
Adam Carter

The total price with freight ended up being $15,424. #LauraBabcock

Penner says a deposit was made on the unit. #LauraBabcock

We're now seeing the packing slip for the incinerator itself. #LauraBabcock

Also seeing the documentation that would've gone with the unit to see it pass customs. #LauraBabcock
Click to expand...
Pass customs?, I thought the reason it was ordered FROM Winnipeg was because of customs and shipping from NY?

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk
 
Stratocaster said:
One question tho, wasn't it entered into cell tower ping evidence that MS's phone pinged along with DM's phone together on the early afternoon of the 4th when DM went mobile with LB already wrapped in the tarp?
Click to expand...

I thought LB's phone was thrown away at 11:00 AM a half an hour from Dellen's house.
 
In another email from July 3, Schlatman is asking for an update on when the incinerator might arrive.
by Adam Carter 3:06 PM


In a response, Penner says it's loaded up and on the road.
by Adam Carter 3:09 PM

Now an email from Schlatman on July 9: "Hi Bill, received the unit on Thursday .. WOW!! very impressive. A quick question, do you know the amount of gas it would take to run the unit for say 1hr? Or for a complete burn of 5 hrs? Just trying to figure out tank sizing.."
by Adam Carter 3:12 PM

Now a response from Penner. He says he was going to call to see how everything went. He also says hot much propane he would need. Penner says he never did meet Schlatman in person.
by Adam Carter 3:14 PM
 
Stratocaster said:
One question tho, wasn't it entered into cell tower ping evidence that MS's phone pinged along with DM's phone together on the early afternoon of the 4th when DM went mobile with LB already wrapped in the tarp?
Click to expand...

I haven’t seen the actual cell location evidence, and the news reports I’ve seen are vague and in some cases contradictory to each other. If you have some links please share!
 
The Canadian Distributor is in Winnipeg. You have to order through the Distributor but the product ships from the States. If I recall correctly, I think it shipped from Georgia.

ETA: Sorry I meant to hit reply with quote and forgot. Yikes.
 
billandrew said:
So with the latest Mob Reporter video I was able to clean up the text messages for July 3-4 on the timeline. Some observations:

MM was at Maple Gate
It looks like MS and MM were both at Maple Gate during July 3, overnight to July 4, and throughout the day on July 4. Perhaps we'll hear more details of what happened in that time when MM gets on the stand?

The "heini"
IMO the present that DM left for MS at the top of the stairs was just a pack of beer.

Did MS have a clue what was happening that night (July 3)?
It seems that after picking up LB and bringing her back to Maple Gate, DM went back out again around 7:30pm. MS was still at Maple Gate and suggesting they get some food when DM returned. He had also asked for some change to get food. IMO it doesn't seem like MS is aware of or getting ready for a pending murder mission.

Was MS present for LB's murder?
There's a 5 hour window between when DM tells MS he's "on a mission, back in 1 hour," and when MS later asks, "Where u at?" The window is July 3 at 7:33pm to July 4 at 12:42am. Anything could have happened in that time, but it's difficult to tell whether MS was ever with DM.

Let's say DM returned to Maple Gate around 8:30pm, then "hit the vapes and tripped out for a bit", and then regained his senses around 1:00am. MS, expecting to have heard from DM earlier, was then asking "Where u at?" at 12:42am. So perhaps they never actually met up earlier.

Then, at 2am MS wants to talk to DM but DM says he's going to sleep and they'll talk in the morning. MS doesn't respond until 9am in the morning when he says, "Aight."

Based on all of this, it's not clear whether MS even saw DM in person during the evening of July 3 and through until the morning of July 4. IMO until we hear further evidence, MS could have a good argument to say he wasn't present if/when LB was killed. At this point I haven't heard any evidence to suggest that MS was involved in the planning/deliberation aspect, either.

DM does all the work
DM seems to be doing everything by himself on July 4. He rolled his first spliff, drove to Waterloo and the farm, and eventually returned to Maple Gate in the afternoon. Meanwhile, it seems MS was sleeping the whole time. DM texted MS, "Back before 4pm" and, "Left some dough on the coffee table in the basement," so if MS did return to Oakville that day, it likely wasn't until later in the evening.

Who pulled all-nighters?
At 2am DM told MS he was going to sleep and they'd talk in the morning. So it seems like DM did sleep that night. Or alternatively, he stayed awake but just said that to defer talking to MS until later. In either case, it puts distance between DM and MS for that time period.

If MS didn't get up until 3:20pm then it seems he didn't get much sleep. Was he just getting drunk in the basement with MM? From his 3:21pm text, "How's the spliff?", he seems to understand what that means. This suggests that either he was involved in killing LB, or DM filled him in about it at some point (say, in the morning).
Click to expand...

Pretty much what I took from the texts except for one point. When Smich texts Millard at 7:33 and asks "Where u at?", I believe Millard is still in the house. He is deliberately keeping LBs presence from Smich as he told him to not be outside when he got home. I'm thinking that he actually strangled LB in his bedroom and that he was concealing the body at that point. He told Smich that he was no a 1 hour mission to keep him out of the picture. I think its likely that at some point late that night Millard told Smich about the murder, as he indicated he was up all night. In the morning Smich seems to be aware as he is already using the iPad and he doesn't seem to have any questions about what a "spliff" is. Lastly, there was no evidence from the phone records that showed his phone ever left the house. The last texts on the 4th allude to Millard wanting to get something from Isho, so he very well may have been gunless at that point.
 
billandrew said:
I haven’t seen the actual cell location evidence, and the news reports I’ve seen are vague and in some cases contradictory to each other. If you have some links please share!
Click to expand...

I'm getting the feeling that was misreported.
 
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