17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25

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http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168920&page=5

I have posted a thorough review of the allegation that the girl waited 3 weeks to make any report. See the post above.

The Moderators have given much leeway to discuss this allegation. At this point it is time to move on because the MSM facts, do not back up the allegation.

We are asking that you treat this child as a victim, not make wild accusations about her or her motivations unless you can back it up. You can question the truth in what she is saying and you can discuss how it may look or be challenged in court. But the personal characterizations and discussions about this minor are not allowed. She is a victim.

:bump:
 
I've read the model jury instructions and found them to be most UNHELPFUL lol.

There are here in case you are interested

http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/jury_instructions/instructions.shtml

I see what you mean: they basically just repeat the language of the appropriate statute. I've read a lot of jury instructions in my time, both as a juror and as a legal secretary and they are often as clear as mud.

FWIW, the "no duty to retreat" instruction is the same in California (or at least it was when I was a juror). The jury can't require the defendant to retreat from a deadly threat because backing up or turning to run may get the defendant killed.

That's why SYG has been called unnecessary by many prosecutors and police officers.
 
I have done extensive research on this issue of allegations that the girlfriend did not come forward for 3 weeks.

I'm going to post it and then, after talking to other moderators and Admins, it has been decided this issue has been discussed to infinity and beyond, and we need to move on.

The girlfriend is considered an innocent victim and thus she should only be discussed in terms of whether you believe her testimony or not. You have a right to discuss why you don't believe her testimony. But we are not going to allow wild theories without proof to back them up. These are the consistent rules for victims and this young girl is considered a victim.

If you read the links you will learn that she was represented by counsel to protect her interests soon after she learned she was the last person to talk to Trayvon before he was murdered.

(1) The records of the phone calls I'm going to post are not Travon's but the girlfriends. If you listen to the taped interview, ABC made a statement that they exclusively got the call logs, that police had them, but never called the girlfriend. They vetted the girlfriend's call logs before running the story on 3/21.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T4nZBdl0nWB

(2) Next I went looking for information about the funeral. There really is little out there because remember this case didn't take off in the news until about the second week, but more so the third week in March when everyone was resigning and the media started really delving into this case.

After not finding anything else I went to Isabelle Zehnder who is a friend of WS and her articles in the Examiner are allowed. I should have gone there first, but at 4am I wasn't very sharp. :lol:

I found the following:
Snip:

Trayvon’s girlfriend, who is a minor and whose name will not be released, learned the day after Trayvon’s wake that she was the last person, other than his killer, to speak with him alive.

Another snip:

"Trayvon's girlfriend just wants justice, period. She was extremely fearful of the Sanford Police Department and was scared of retaliation for cooperating with the investigators.

“Her mother is very protective of her and will make sure she is safe. It's tragic that this teenager's life has now been changed forever, and the innocence of her youth is essentially gone."

This is all in the story with quotes from Radar on-line who broke the story.

http://www.examiner.com/unsolved-cases-in-national/trayvon-martin-s-girlfriend-hospitalized

Now, still not being able to find anything about the date of the funeral I began listening to the funeral director talk about lack of injuries pointing to him saying the struggle doesn't add up. I watched videos rather than rely on the typed word. I got Lucky.

At approx 1:47 in the video posted at the link below(go full screen) there is a quick scan of the memorial folder used for Trayvon's Memorial Service. I believe the date is the 3rd, but it could be an 8 also. Trayvon's service would have been on one of those two dates. The date is at the bottom of the Memorial Folder for his service. Maybe someone with better eyes can zoom in on it and capture the date. :)

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/29/funeral-director-no-signs-of-scuffle-on-trayvon-martins-body/

Remember now what we are told in the Examiner Article.... The girlfriend found out the day after the visitation. So that puts it in the first week of March less than a week from Trayvon's death, if the March 3rd date is correct. It would also point to the phone records being hers and her calling the Sanford Police on March 2, 2012.

Just bumping Grandmaj's post about Trayvon's girlfriend.
 
EVERYONE CHECK YOUR GPS

Race discussion

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:rocker::clap::tyou::yourock::loveyou::highfive:
 
Why is that surprising? I think it's rather obvious the reason Zimmerman was arrested is because of public pressure.

Then it's a shame it had to take public pressure to bring about what should have been done to begin with.
 
Well I believe I am correct.
I've yet to see any link that says I am not. No one has provided any links that say burden of proof will be on Zimmerman if this gets to trial. The msm articles say burden of proof is on prosecution beyond a reasonable doubt.

I think the whole issue here is the phrase "burden of proof". If I understand this correctly, the SYG immunity hearing, the burden shifts to the defense to proof he was SYG'ing. If immunity is denied and this goes to trial, the "burden of proof" is on the prosecution. HOWEVER.....IF GZ is offering an affirmative defense such as self defense or SYG defense he will have to offer evidence to support that defense.

I'm not sure this link will be allowed, but this is from the Cornell Law school online dictionary of legal terms.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/affirmative_defense



Affirmative defense

A defense in which the defendant introduces evidence, which, if found to be credible, will negate criminal or civil liability, even if it is proven that the defendant committed the alleged acts. Self-defense, entrapment, insanity, and necessity are some examples of affirmative defenses. See, e.g. Beach v. Ocwen Fed. Bank, 523 U.S. 410 (1998).


Definition from Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary


August 19, 2010, 5:10 pm

IMO and all that
 
I think the whole issue here is the phrase "burden of proof". If I understand this correctly, the SYG immunity hearing, the burden shifts to the defense to proof he was SYG'ing. If immunity is denied and this goes to trial, the "burden of proof" is on the prosecution. HOWEVER.....IF GZ is offering an affirmative defense such as self defense or SYG defense he will have to offer evidence to support that defense.

I'm not sure this link will be allowed, but this is from the Cornell Law school online dictionary of legal terms.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/affirmative_defense



Affirmative defense

A defense in which the defendant introduces evidence, which, if found to be credible, will negate criminal or civil liability, even if it is proven that the defendant committed the alleged acts. Self-defense, entrapment, insanity, and necessity are some examples of affirmative defenses. See, e.g. Beach v. Ocwen Fed. Bank, 523 U.S. 410 (1998).


Definition from Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary


August 19, 2010, 5:10 pm

IMO and all that

Yes Steft. GZ can still assert SYG at trial, but the prosecution need only prove the elements of the crime. A defendant still has the burden to prove he acted in self-defense.
 
is it correct that the gf was subpoenaed to the GJ that didn't happen? If so, was it Corey who issued the subpoena? Anyone know off the top of their head? TIA
 
Frank Taaffe gets it right at 1:42 in this video. Wonder if that was his nickname for old George.

Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman's Neighbor Speaks Out - YouTube

JMO but it's strange that FT kinda lets it be understood that when they spoke on the phone after TM's death GZ shared with him that he had stopped a burglary in FT's house and what happened with the alleged perp. If they're such good friends wouldn't they have already dealt with all of that when it happened?
 
Yes Steft. GZ can still assert SYG at trial, but the prosecution need only prove the elements of the crime. A defendant still has the burden to prove he acted in self-defense.

Yes, but what isn't clear is how high is the defendant's burden? Is merely asserting self-defense (either through the defendant's direct testimony or by his attorney's interpretation of other evidence) sufficient? Some passages in the Florida statutes suggest merely claiming self-defense may be enough to put the burden back onto the prosecution.
 
I think the whole issue here is the phrase "burden of proof". If I understand this correctly, the SYG immunity hearing, the burden shifts to the defense to proof he was SYG'ing. If immunity is denied and this goes to trial, the "burden of proof" is on the prosecution. HOWEVER.....IF GZ is offering an affirmative defense such as self defense or SYG defense he will have to offer evidence to support that defense.

I'm not sure this link will be allowed, but this is from the Cornell Law school online dictionary of legal terms.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/affirmative_defense



Affirmative defense

A defense in which the defendant introduces evidence, which, if found to be credible, will negate criminal or civil liability, even if it is proven that the defendant committed the alleged acts. Self-defense, entrapment, insanity, and necessity are some examples of affirmative defenses. See, e.g. Beach v. Ocwen Fed. Bank, 523 U.S. 410 (1998).


Definition from Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary


August 19, 2010, 5:10 pm

IMO and all that

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Beautifully explained. Succinct.



btw, the cornell website you linked is a fantastic source. it was one of the first links that we were told to bookmark in college! i still use it all the time. a wealth of info on that site.
 
Just got back home. Thank you Grandmaj for all your hard work and research on Trayvon's girlfriend. I thought the phone record was hers. It really changes things having her call 911 on 3/2/2012, 4 days after Trayvon was killed.

I hope and pray she is kept out of the media spotlight, and others (not speaking of here at WS) respect that she is a victim and a minor. I can't imagine how she feels. Poor thing. My heart breaks for her.
 
I've already posted links.
Here is one with quotes from Richard Hornsby. I really hope his stops by here and explains it once and for all.

"The moment George Zimmerman fired that shot is the key question in this entire case," Hornsby said. "Did he reasonably believe he had to fire that shot to defend himself? And the fact (Corey) completely left that out, begs the question, does she not have any evidence to refute his version of the events?"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_...-case-against-zimmerman-questioned/?tag=stack

I do like Richard Hornsby I too wish he would drop in and help us understand this law and how it works.

And Richard if you do drop by.....
my question to you is would you have taken on this case if asked to?
 
JMO but it's strange that FT kinda lets it be understood that when they spoke on the phone after TM's death GZ shared with him that he had stopped a burglary in FT's house and what happened with the alleged perp. If they're such good friends wouldn't they have already dealt with all of that when it happened?
The phone call he is referring to happened last Monday.:what: 6 weeks after the shooting and over 2 months since that report he is referring too.
 
Yes, but what isn't clear is how high is the defendant's burden? Is merely asserting self-defense (either through the defendant's direct testimony or by his attorney's interpretation of other evidence) sufficient? Some passages in the Florida statutes suggest merely claiming self-defense may be enough to put the burden back onto the prosecution.

This is the part I don't get. If I were a juror I wouldn't take the word of either side without evidence to back it up. Example: GZ can claim self defense till the stars fall down but if he can't show me some evidence to support that I'm not buying it. Same with the prosecution....they've charged murder 2, but if they can't show me in the form of evidence why this is murder 2 (or anything lessor that may be in the instructions) then I'm not going to buy it from them either. That is just me though. Right now the evidence I am seeing puts some serious doubt into the self defense and GZ's version (or at least his families version) of what happened.

IMO and all that
 
I know I saw Taffee's original comments which was a little milder about that event, then we are hearing now. Anyone have the link to his first interview?
 
I know I saw Taffee's original comments which was a little milder about that event, then we are hearing now. Anyone have the link to his first interview?

Hopefully they are online somewhere. I've DVR'd every program about Trayvon (even including Oliver and Taaffe both (gagging)), but I swear I wouldn't be able to sit through all of his nonsense again but you are right, he's definitely changed his tune in each and every interview, getting a little more overdramatic each time.



~jmo~
 
Hopefully they are online somewhere. I've DVR'd every program about Trayvon (even including Oliver and Taaffe both (gagging)), but I swear I wouldn't be able to sit through all of his nonsense again but you are right, he's definitely changed his tune in each and every interview, getting a little more overdramatic each time.



~jmo~
AND more annoying! LOL!
 
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