NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #12

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Chandler
A woman had gone missing.
This very woman had called 911 screaming somone wanted to KILL HER!
This very woman banged on several houses doors sceaming somone wanted to kill her!
Witnesses claimed they saw her disappear at the marsh area.
A man was following her in his car (MP)
SO!!!!!! the police's job was INDEED to get into that very area and look for her! IF it was possible that she could have been in there.
They DID NOT!!!
WHY?
Because, in their own words, it was impossible to enter the area because of TOO MUCH water and owergrown.
AND Dormer today said that they didn´t, also, because they "didn't think it was necessary".
Now WHY is THAT???
Well probably because they KNEW that it was IMPOSSIBLE for anybody to enter that marsh area, because of, YEP; TOO MUCH water and owergrown, brambles etc etc etc.

This is my last efford to try make you think reasonable concerning this issue.

Hi, TheForeigner. Thanks for your patience and persistence. A woman makes a rambling, 23-minute call, apparently not identifying her location and not being threatened by the men, whose voices can be heard in the background. Then she runs from house to house, more than once refusing shelter and 911 calls. Then she simply disappears. Did she crash or just disappear into some other scene? Who knows?

Obviously, it was not impossible to "enter" the marsh. Police officials have been photographed and filmed wading in before the drainage process began. That investigating such a marshy thicket (much different and more difficult than simply attempting to wade across) would be immensely difficult and, in these cash-strapped times, man-hours and equipment expensive, but hey, we don't know have to worry about things like that; we just have to second-guess them and question their honesty.
 
If Shannan was murdered I belive the killer, at some point, dumped her from Ocean Parkway.

This is the yahoo map of the location where the remains where found.
Wheter the white object is the remains or not, the spot in the red circle is still the apox. location where the ramins where found. So her remains where very close to the Ocean Parkway.
And there seems to be some kind of path (I added 2 red lines there) that the killer could have used:



SHANNANGILBERTPOSSIBLEREMAINSonyahoomap.jpg

Also, they found her in or near some kind of drain or pipe or something right? I just remember them saying something about a drain yesterday. Is it possible that she was actually placed (or deceased, depending on your theory) in a different spot? This could explain why her belongings were a bit further away. If she came in with the flow of water, lighter items would float away.
 
If someone was chasing her and she died because of that (drowning or otherwise) well that makes it manslaughter. She was in fear ,called for help.

Even if the SK didnt murder her someone did directly cause her death so I dont see how ANYONE can call it an accident.
 
I don't think the evidence is so cut and dried that any of us should be digging in our heels and refusing to see the other side.

I think she drowned, but people are making compelling arguments to the contrary. Plus, there's been no COD announced at this point (though COD may be difficult to determine now).

If there's a ligature around her neck or her skull looks like it's been battered, then maybe we have proof of murder. If not, we can't assume anything.
 
EVERYBODY see this WARNING? Anyone who continues to bicker and attack other posters after the original posting of this warning will be getting a time out, because it will be obvious that they cannot, or will not, control their emotions.

This post lands at random. Stop attacking each other! Use the ignore feature or just your own good sense and roll on by. If the post is offensive, alert it and then rooooolllllllll on by! Stop responding and making a bigger mess.

This post lands at random.

Salem

WARNING: What is going on here???? Where in the TOS does it say it is okay to attack other members? I don't remember ever reading that.

Everyone gets their own opinion and they are ALLOWED to post it. Other posters are NOT allowed to attack it or discourage them.

KNOCK IT OFF!

Salem
 
LE , to my knowledge, have never said she was having a manic episode, expounded upon her alleged bi-polar disorder, or said that her bi-polar disorder made her claims unreliable.
the police said she was acting irrationally that night, it doesn't matter if they believe she was manic or not, they believe her actions were not that of a person who was in a proper state of mind.

She didn't ask the neighbour to call the cops. He told her he had and she ran off. How do I know why she would do that? There could be many reasons - one being she didn't trust the cops for some reason. All I know is I can't say conclusively that that was irrational. We don't know what happened in that house, so we can't really judge her behaviour. To me, that's the whole point. Under normal circumstances it might seem irrational. But who says these were normal circumstances?! Clearly they weren't.

the neighbors and others who witnessed her running around said she was acting irrationally. why would they have said so if she wasn't? her behavior doesn't make sense to me. even if Shannan didn't trust the cops, a rational person would rely on them to protect her from whoever or whatever was out there intent on killing her. think about other victims who have escaped their killers, the first thing they did was try to seek help and they stayed with their rescuers till the police arrived. i haven't heard any of them running off where they know there was a chance they'd get caught again by their would be killer.

The question is - if you take her claim to be in danger - however incoherently expressed - at face value and believe that somehow she was, is it inconceivable that she might act the way she did? I don't think it is, not by a long shot. She could indeed have been on drugs - does that mean she wasn't in danger? (She could also, by the way, have BEEN drugged.) Could she be an incoherent, stumbling, panicked mess AND be in danger? I say yes. One doesn't preclude the other - I don't see why it has to.

she was in danger and she was murdered. so the killer went to the difficulty of wading in a marshy area to the location she was found in, even though it was near impossible to get through to the other side. the police were already on the way, so the chance that he would get caught if he was to go back the way he entered would have been very high. why would her killer, or the serial killer, take such a risky chance? the chances of her being murdered are more improbable than the chances of her meeting an accidental death.

I'm not saying I believe 100 percent that she was murdered or that the SK is linked to this or that she wasn't deluded in some way. I'm saying that at this point, there's still a lot to look at. And if it is proven that her case has nothing to do with the SK, the fact that those bodies were found so close is a gigantic coincidence. But coincidences do happen. I'm just saying - that will be a huge one.

the police have all but declared her death to be accidental. if and when the ME confirms this, i doubt that would be enough to change the minds of some of the others who are fully convinced that Shannan's death is linked to the serial killer. the police have looked at the evidence, a lot of which are unavailable to us, they have gone on the grounds where her body was located, spent hundreds of hours investigating testimonies, last known whereabouts, and they seem to be convinced that her death has nothing to do with the serial killer nor did she meet foul play. what would it take for others who do not have all the facts at hand to be convinced of that?
 
EVERYBODY see this WARNING? Anyone who continues to bicker and attack other posters after the original posting of this warning will be getting a time out, because it will be obvious that they cannot, or will not, control their emotions.

This post lands at random. Stop attacking each other! Use the ignore feature or just your own good sense and roll on by. If the post is offensive, alert it and then rooooolllllllll on by! Stop responding and making a bigger mess.

This post lands at random.

Salem

Will do, sorry....
 
From LISK.com:

@ Kim … I’ve heard that dee was/ is an escort that had clients in the OB area. Pretty interesting if that turns out to be the case

Flukeyou on December 13th, 2011 at 4:50 pm


I WANT TO KNOW who is flukeyou?! DS? DS worked with the Dr's son thats a connection of the DR to 2 girls.

Is DEE Kinky Julie/ Leatherbound/ Escapedbreakout on the Craigslist kink forum?

How did fluke know where to look for shannan? the drifter is not eliminated in my opinion!!!!
 
Hi, TheForeigner. A woman makes a rambling, 23-minute call, apparently not identifying her location and not being threatened by the men, whose voices can be heard in the background. Then she runs from house to house, more than once refusing shelter and 911 calls. Then she simply disappears. Did she crash or just disappear into some other scene? Who knows?

Obviously, it was not impossible to "enter" the marsh. Police officials have been photographed and filmed wading in before the drainage process began. That investigating such a marshy thicket (much different and more difficult than simply attempting to wade across) would be immensely difficult and, in these cash-strapped times, man-hours and equipment expensive, but hey, we don't know have to worry about things like that; we just have to second-guess them and question their honesty.

Have you had the opertuinty to listened to the 911 call? if not then how do you know SG was not threatened?
And do we really know who, and how many people was acually at JB's house that night? NOPE!
Do we know where, and to WHO, SG and JB went, by car, for those 15 minutes, not leaving OB? NOPE!

There could have been numerous of reasons why SG was terrifyed, and both tried to get somone to help her, but at the same time didn´t dare to trust anyone.

The probability that she had taken drugs, and was affected by it, IMO should NOT disqualify the possibilty that she, as she expressed, incohernent or not, indeed was in real danger.

IMO we have to remember that SG had been working as an escort for quite a while and had probably experienced a lot of different more or less unpleasent situations through her work as an escort, AND that she, as far as we have heard by several people who knew her, was quite a TUFF lady, SO her VERY terrifyed state of mind IMO should at least be concidered possibly valid.

And the fact that she had a diagnosis as an bipolar IMO does not have to have had too much value due to that it appear that she for a longer time actually had functioned pretty well without medication, and had even, for quite some time studied onlie courses (can´t remember what study it was) because she wanted out of the escort bizz.

Another thing that I didn´t know until today was that Shannan was actually born on Long Island !
Found this info on findshannangilbert.com;
"Shannan Maria Gilbert was born October 24, 1986 on Long Island"
SO, I´m also thinking, did she know people on Long island? and if she did WHO? and where? and could she have had some kind of ties to LI that we don´t know of?
 
LE , to my knowledge, have never said she was having a manic episode, expounded upon her alleged bi-polar disorder, or said that her bi-polar disorder made her claims unreliable.

She didn't ask the neighbour to call the cops. He told her he had and she ran off. How do I know why she would do that? There could be many reasons - one being she didn't trust the cops for some reason. All I know is I can't say conclusively that that was irrational. We don't know what happened in that house, so we can't really judge her behaviour. To me, that's the whole point. Under normal circumstances it might seem irrational. But who says these were normal circumstances?! Clearly they weren't.

The question is - if you take her claim to be in danger - however incoherently expressed - at face value and believe that somehow she was, is it inconceivable that she might act the way she did? I don't think it is, not by a long shot. She could indeed have been on drugs - does that mean she wasn't in danger? (She could also, by the way, have BEEN drugged.) Could she be an incoherent, stumbling, panicked mess AND be in danger? I say yes. One doesn't preclude the other - I don't see why it has to.

I'm not saying I believe 100 percent that she was murdered or that the SK is linked to this or that she wasn't deluded in some way. I'm saying that at this point, there's still a lot to look at. And if it is proven that her case has nothing to do with the SK, the fact that those bodies were found so close is a gigantic coincidence. But coincidences do happen. I'm just saying - that will be a huge one.

Hi, Snapdragon2. The first police reports included mention of Shannan's condition and drug use. From law enforcement interviews, it seems clear that they regarded her 911 call as rambling and disoriented. Which makes sense: People don't make 23-minute 911 calls with other people in the room in normal states of mind. This is not a factor to be passed over lightly: In New York City, making such an extended call would be grounds for arrest.

She refused sanctuary at two houses, not one.

The question pops up: If she didn't trust the police, why did she make a 23-minute call to them?

The coincidence is not so gigantic if one considers the sequence: The wilderness area was searched closely because Shannan went missing. If her body had been found in the marsh first, the killing fields might have remained undisturbed longer and people would have been less likely to make a connection.

That she advertised on Craigslist (even though she does not fit the killer's patterns) intensified people's suspicions about people associated with her visit.
 
Now, they will know if Shannan was dressed and if the bag, shoes and jeans were extras or backup attire . If she is clothed then it is even more important to find out if any of those people who called 911 saw Shannan carrying a bag/purse or just her jacket and cellphone.

I keep wondering why none of her belongings were found on the day she disappeared. LE was told she ran off toward the marsh...they said they brought in search teams and a helicopter. Did they do it just for show or did they really look?

What if she did get pulled into a vehicle, before jumping out and running to GC's and then when she ran off MP tracked her down a second time. What if, her remains and belongings were dumped later...after LE left the area. We know that at least two other victims were dumped after Shannan went missing. Hopefully, the medical examiner's office and forensics will be able to tell how long all of her belongings and remains have been out in the elements.

An exact location of her remains will be very informative. If her remains are within tossing distance or just off an old 4X4-type path and just off of the OP, then it is likely she and her belongings were dumped later.

Important Items that should be recovered if not already:
One Large hoop Earring
Blonde Wig
Boots
Shirt
Bra or other undergarments?
Titanium jaw
Any money that she was meant to be paid?

If she did traverse nearly 3/4 of a mile on foot then those items ought to still be out there as well. If those items are not recovered then where did they go?

The recovered but now missing jacket...what happened to it?
 
If someone was chasing her and she died because of that (drowning or otherwise) well that makes it manslaughter. She was in fear ,called for help.

Even if the SK didnt murder her someone did directly cause her death so I dont see how ANYONE can call it an accident.



Worth Repeating...
 
Have you had the opertuinty to listened to the 911 call? if not then how do you know SG was not threatened?
And do we really know who, and how many people was acually at JB's house that night? NOPE!
Do we know where, and to WHO, SG and JB went, by car, for those 15 minutes, not leaving OB? NOPE!
There could have been numerous of reasons why SG was terrifyed, and both tried to get somone to help her, but at the same time didn´t dare to trust anyone.
The probability that she had taken drugs, and was affected by it, IMO should NOT disqualify the possibilty that she, as she expressed, incohernent or not, indeed was in real danger.
IMO we have to remember that SG had been working as an escort for quite a while and had probably experienced a lot of different more or less unpleasent situations through her work as an escort, AND that she, as far as we have heard by several people who knew her, was quite a TUFF lady, SO her VERY terrifyed state of mind IMO should at least be concidered possibly valid.
And the fact that she had a diagnosis as an bipolar IMO does not have to have had too much value due to that it appear that she for a longer time actually had functioned pretty well without medication, and had even, for quite some time studied onlie courses (can´t remember what study it was) because she wanted out of the escort bizz.
Another thing that I didn´t know until today was that Shannan was actually born on Long Island !
Found this info on findshannangilbert.com;
"Shannan Maria Gilbert was born October 24, 1986 on Long Island"
SO, I´m also thinking, did she know people on Long island? and if she did WHO? and where? and could she have had some kind of ties to LI that we don´t know of?

Hi, theforeigner. From reports from police sources, we know that Shannan was not threatened while she was making the call. Two people were present for at least part of the call; neither of whom knew the other, and both apparently gave accounts that were consistent with the content and background voices on the call. Furthermore, if Shannan was rationally afraid of her regular driver, it seems that she developed that fear when he was not even present.

Shannan apparently survived what was probably a drug pick-up, perhaps for herself, perhaps for both her and her john. That a would-be killer (a serial killer to boot!) somehow would take her could indicate only one or two things: He had (another) confederate or he was even dumber than he has been presented here.

As others have noted, all witnesses to Shannan regarded her behavior as irrational. To maintain that she was in actual danger is a claim made without any visible evidence except the wish that it is true.

That a woman with Shannan's problems had worked for an extended period as a prostitute did not give him some kind of immunity to flipping out. Indeed, Pak, the driver who shared the car with her, mentioned her volatility. Of course, people who want this to be the crux of the serial killer story, simply identify him as a co-conspirator.

That people with bipolar problems can take online classes doesn't minimize the severity of their condition. My brother-in-law teachs at a college, but he has had episodes (and, like Shannan, related drug abuse) that have involved extended irrational behavior and a call to the police.
 
there was no path, otherwise the police would have searched that area from the beginning. they have consistently stated that it would be virtually impossible for anyone to go through the area where her body was found all the way to the other side.

That area was ABSOLUTELY searched during the full-scale search back in May!!! I drove down there after the search and I saw all of the papers and markers on the shoulder. The area where the body was found was searched by the police cadets as well as Officer John Malia and his dog Blue!!!

The bramble is not as thick as Dormer says!! It is actually a very thin area of bramble in that area! Especially in early May. That bramble may slow you down, but it is not IMPOSSIBLE to get through!
 
From LISK.com:

@ Kim … I’ve heard that dee was/ is an escort that had clients in the OB area. Pretty interesting if that turns out to be the case

Flukeyou on December 13th, 2011 at 4:50 pm


I WANT TO KNOW who is flukeyou?! DS? DS worked with the Dr's son thats a connection of the DR to 2 girls.

Is DEE Kinky Julie/ Leatherbound/ Escapedbreakout on the Craigslist kink forum?

How did fluke know where to look for shannan? the drifter is not eliminated in my opinion!!!!

Who is DS? That is interesting if it is said that Flukeyou is DS and worked with Dr H's son as it would show a connection. I read here Flukeyou is related to one of the GB4 victims or was Amber's roommate.

I think it is against TOS to mention names of posters on other sites. I only mention Flukeyou as the other day one of our Mods asked who this was. ;}

BTW, do you think Fluke is the drifter? What makes you think that? Thanks
 
If someone was chasing her and she died because of that (drowning or otherwise) well that makes it manslaughter. She was in fear ,called for help.

Even if the SK didnt murder her someone did directly cause her death so I dont see how ANYONE can call it an accident.

Hi, Soulmagent. Chasing someone who accidentally dies is not necessarily manslaughter. If, for example, you are referring to her driver, his pursuit might well be construed as a humane act: Shannan has (by multiple accounts) acted in irrational ways and, as her designated driver, he has agreed to get her safely back to Jersey City from Long Island.
 
That area was ABSOLUTELY searched during the full-scale search back in May!!! I drove down there after the search and I saw all of the papers and markers on the shoulder. The area where the body was found was searched by the police cadets as well as Officer John Malia and his dog Blue!!!

The bramble is not as thick as Dormer says!! It is actually a very thin area of bramble in that area! Especially in early May. That bramble may slow you down, but it is not IMPOSSIBLE to get through!

I agree. She would have gotten scratched up and hurt, but I didn't think it looked that thick. DH and I went by the area again 2 weeks ago, and since the summer, it has thinned out a LOT. The thing I find most interesting are the trees that block the "OB Association" development from being seen from the parkway. You cannot possibly see in. Anything could have happened in the cover of night in front of the house, and people couldn't see, much less behind the homes.
 
Is it possible if the SK was chasing her that he followed her a ways in and could have ripped part of his clothes or even lost a shoe or other article? There could be valuable clues about the SK near where the body was found in case she did get caught in the vegetation and he followed her a ways in. JMO
 
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