CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 # 9

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Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman · 2m2 minutes ago
Metzner re malingering: "I do not think Mr. Holmes was faking an illness." #theatershooting

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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting dr went into notebook with JH but got a lot of " I don't know"

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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting dr says in his opinion JH was not faking mental illness

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Will C. Holden ‏@will_c_holden · 57s58 seconds ago
Dr. Metzner on #theatershooting exam that was tossed: "I don't believe that Mr. Holmes was faking an illness." Live: http://link.kdvr.com/1Qi65EE

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No..It was computer lost connection so had to reboot the whole shebang !! But I have noticed that Websleuth reloading takes a long time..likely due to so much advertising having to load...It's a little faster now since rebooted my modem and wifi setup...but still bit sluggish.!
 
2 minutes ago

Dr. Jeffrey Metzner is discussing the types of things doctors can see in a subject during psychosis
Dr. Jeffrey Metzner says if you have a delusion you are psychotic 7News
 
I wonder if the issue of incomplete stems from how long it takes/took to actually do. 55000+ pages to review, over 25hrs of interview wit JH and then also collectimg info fr parents etc... thats a lot of work. was there a deadline on this?

in my opinion both Reid AND Metzler are very critical to this case and I think given Metzler's experience and credentials he shouldn't be viewed as not as important based on an "incomplete" 196 page report!
although he and Reid have different styles which is pretty obvious something that will happen in any field, they ultimately reached the same conclusion and so far I don't hear Metzler's testimony as less accurate etc. as Reid's!
 
Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman · 46s47 seconds ago
Morning story on Dr. Jeffrey Metzner, second court-ordered psychiatrist who examined #theatershooting defendant. http://dpo.st/1JDrnqJ
 
Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 54s55 seconds ago
Dr Metzner is talking about different delusions people can have #theatershooting #theatertrial

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Dr. Jeffrey Metzner says the gunman had a delusion on the day before and day of the theater shooting
Dr. Jeffrey Metzner says the gunman's delusion was that by killing he would increase his self-worth 7News
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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 1m1 minute ago
Dr Metzner says JH's delusions don't fit into common categories but that doesn't mean they aren't happening #theatershooting #theatertrial

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Dr. Jeffrey Metzner said the gunman believed people had different worth - so a doctor would be worth more to kill 7News
Dr. Jeffrey Metzner said the gunman thought thought children were worth more because they had a longer life ahead of him 7News
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Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman · 44s45 seconds ago
Metzner is discussing JH's notebook and the concept of "human capital." #theatershooting

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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 58s58 seconds ago
#TheaterShooting dr. says that just because his concepts of human capital aren't common doesn't mean they're real

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Was it this judge who deemed the report incomplete?
 
7NEWS Denver Channel ‏@DenverChannel · 57s57 seconds ago
Dr. Metzner: #theatershooting gunman thought children were worth more points because they had longer life ahead

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 1m1 minute ago
JH wanted to cure his depression by increasing his self worth..meaning killing people #theatershooting #theatertrial

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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

Dr attempted to make differential diagnosis on JH. It is list of most likely diagnosis to answer for their presentation

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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 58s58 seconds ago
#theatershooting

Gives example of going to Dr with shortness of breath. May go through tests, you may have flu, or cancer. Further tests

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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

Narrowing down different possible diagnosis

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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 51s51 seconds ago
#theatershooting

Dr said JH had bbm

-Schizophrenia
-Schizoaffective
- Bo Polar
- Social Anxiety
- Pulling out hair
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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 53s54 seconds ago
#theatershooting

Ruled out bbm

-Malingering
-Anti-social disorder
- Multiple Persoanlity
 
M on human capital delusion.
(My personal opinion pre- trial was that JH developed the scoring based on influence from games- i know he didn't play shooting games but still, the idea of getting scores in a game.)
M: This delusion isn't insanity based on the law of capacity. The delusion was related to self- worth, he agreed. If hadn't had self worth issues he would not have done the shooting.
 
So back in interview with M. his value system was more complex..Doctors more valuable and children worth more because of their age....very different from Reid's interview when he gets very detailed about wanting to avoid children..and was sad when heard about Veronica..then value system 1 killed added 1 to his value ..Hummmmm wonder if he got coached to say that by his def. attny's?? This was before they would claim NG by reason of Insanity!! So now have to come across as more sympathetic?????
 
he was court-ordered to conduct first sanity eval - but prosecution told court it was biased and asked for second 7News
 
The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

Dr says some symptoms have to be present for months before in order to diagnose certain disorders

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 2m2 minutes ago
Bi polar, Schizophrenia, social anxiety disorder are some of the issues JH has according to Dr. Metzner #theatershooting #TheaterTrial (bbm)
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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

Legally insane - none of those disorders automatically is that you’re insane in Colorado by law

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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

The mental disease you have is going to be a serious mental illness associated with psychotic capacity

-----Will C. Holden ‏@will_c_holden · 2m2 minutes ago
Metzner on tossed #theatershooting exam: Holmes is schizoaffective, bipolar; has schizophrenia, social anxiety. Live: http://link.kdvr.com/1Qi65EE
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-The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

Vast majority of people with psychotic features don’t meet criteria for legal insanity. Narrow line with that

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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 48s49 seconds ago
#theatershooting

Schizoaffective http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 1m1 minute ago
JH has schizoaffective disorder #theatershooting #theatertrial

------The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

JH meets prong of mental disease/defect. Next you look at function
Did he lack capacity of right/wrong or form culpable mental state
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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

Potential diagnosis have a spectrum. Some worse off, some better. Doesn’t affect all the same way

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 59s59 seconds ago
Legal criteria for insanity in CO is hard to meet..its narrow according to Dr Metzner #theatershooting #theatertrial

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4 minutes ago

Dr. Jeffrey Metzner said a person is legally insane in Colorado when they meet the criterial of being diagnosed with a serious mental illness associated with psychotic features 7Nes
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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 2m2 minutes ago
JH meets prong for mental illness but he had capacity #theatershooting #theatertrial

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Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 2m2 minutes ago
JH meets prong for mental illness but he had capacity #theatershooting #theatertrial

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Will C. Holden ‏@will_c_holden · 2m2 minutes ago
Metzner on tossed #theatershooting exam: Vast maj of psychotics aren't legally insane. Must go beyond diagnosis. Live http://link.kdvr.com/1Qi65EE

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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 2m2 minutes ago
#theatershooting

Dr - JH clear that he knew shooting people was illegal

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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

If you look @ actions:

- Planning; well thought out & document in notebook. Delay getting caught

-------Will C. Holden ‏@will_c_holden · 1m1 minute ago
Metzner on tossed #theatershooting exam: You don't need to be psychologist to see rationale in Holmes' planning. Live http://link.kdvr.com/1Qi65EE

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--The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 1m1 minute ago
#theatershooting

JH - said he bought ammo over time to not arouse suspicion from law enforcement or merchants


---Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman · 2m2 minutes ago
JH told Metzner he knew that shooting people was against the law. "The planning of the shooting was well-thought out." #theatershooting

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The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 2m2 minutes ago
#theatershooting

Researched Columbine to see police response time

-------The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol · 2m2 minutes ago
#theatershooting

Another reason to research Columbine was to see amount of ammo that was used

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On differential diagnosis at outset - he lists a group of possibles - he narrows down from that list.
schizo - affective & schizophrenia

Schizo-affective incl certain signs psychosis lasting min 1 month. And prior to that have to have other negative symptoms that JH had for at least 6 months as prodromal to the psychosis.
Prodromal period may make u think he has schizotypal but no schizotypal has become something else.


M In Colorado schizo affective is not legally insane. Definition of legal insanity is so narrow.
M It doesn't make a diff if its schizophrenia, schizo affective or schizo typal as none of them are likely to meet legal insanity.
( presume this is where metz's forensic specialism comes in)
M Crux is "function". He had capacity.
M Plus there is a difference to the degree of suffering between individuals. e.g.. degree/severity of psychosis


Capacity/Function on day of shooting: key evidence
M: JH stated it was illegal. Degree of documentation. Desire to delay in getting caught, secret ongoing planning - all JH stated this.
M: JH researched Columbine re police respond times. ( Thank goodness - we all 'knew' this )
M: JH researched Columbine re amount of ammo used.
M: In the Gmails to ex - he stated to her that he had not yet committed any crime at that stage as he knew he would get caught and would be imprsioned, cause it was evil, illegal
 
So he changed his story when he spoke to Reid? Wow...


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