PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

J. J. in Phila · Nov 21, 2011

minazoe said:
If I was a woman in love with Ray, if I was his daughter, I would get a GPS ap on my phone, and then go out and scour every inch of those woods, looking for at least the bones of my hearts desire.

it just blows my mind...I have seen footage and the questioning...something strikes me is weird and it's not just Patty's weird 80's haircut.

As far as I know, LE never did a search across the river. Tony Gricar indicated, at one point, he looked around a quarry or gravel pit that was across the river. I have never heard of a ground search by LE, with a cadaver dog or not, across the river.

I would note that, as in the Rosa case, that is not too unusual.

As for PEF, et c., my understanding is that a lot of people thought that RFG was with a woman. The LMW was reported to LE between 6:30 PM and 10:30 PM on 4/16 and was the first reported sighting of RFG. According to JKA, the theory on 4/17 was that RFG was spending the weekend with another woman. A lot of people thought that he was in the water, but a lot thought he was having a "wild weekend" in the words of DZ (a year later). That "come home, Ray," might have been prompted by that.

I think that DZ said on Disappeared that they were hoping that RFG would hear that he was missing, and call in.

Lord_Chatterly · Nov 21, 2011

minazoe said:
My issue with WPP is this...

why wouldn't the whole family go into protection? would they turn down the offer? would the age and actual marital status of his daughter and GF play into it?

Very good question. I have offered on the WPP theory as a possibility, not that I am "locked in" on it. Certainly I have some reservations on RG being in WPP. However, I believe it has some merit. Have been looking into guidelines as it relates to family members, but nothing so far can I pin down as a "clear-cut" answer to your question.

If i come across anything worthy, I will provide link. WITSEC (formal name of WPP) does have rules, and family eligibility is provided, but not spelled out as it relates WHICH family members would qualify. Still researching...thanks to all.

Lord_Chatterly · Nov 21, 2011

Waupalani St. said:
lol yinz know much of PA is stuck in the eighties....(I'm from a Stillers town in W PA "Just a Steel Town girl on a Sturday Night..."ala Flashdance)...I kept thinking, Patty would look so cute in a pixie cut, or even a page boy cut...

Stuck in the 80's ??? LMAO ... where I am from, some hold on dearly to being "stuck in the 70's", and proudly profess to that !!!

Anyway...for Patty's sake...ur hair is no issue with me...@ least, ur not wearing a ball cap !!!

cj327 · Nov 21, 2011

JJ- I read your LMW theory and I was wondering if you had any additional thoughts regarding the reported sighting of RFG and PEF in a park having something like a serious conversation the night before he disappeared. This is one thing that suggests that there was something going on between them that we don't know about (I would guess she did tell police though).

From the timeline:

April 14, 2005 - Gricar and girlfriend Patty Fornicola are seen walking in Tallyrand Park by a Centre County Commissioner approx 5:30pm. Gricar is described as "depressed looking" as neither he nor his girlfriend respond to a compliment of being the perfect couple. The Commissioner cannot recall what Gricar or Fornicola were wearing during this walk (office attire or casual clothing.)

https://sites.google.com/site/raygricar/timeline

Also, I don't buy the WPP idea because there would be a million ways to enter WPP that would result in less publicity and interest and speculation. As JJ has said, it would have been easy to come up with an excuse (a public story) as to why he disappeared. I mean, ANY excuse would have been better than NO excuse for disappearing. I would assume the people who run WPP know that!

J. J. in Phila said:
As far as I know, LE never did a search across the river. Tony Gricar indicated, at one point, he looked around a quarry or gravel pit that was across the river. I have never heard of a ground search by LE, with a cadaver dog or not, across the river.

I would note that, as in the Rosa case, that is not too unusual.

As for PEF, et c., my understanding is that a lot of people thought that RFG was with a woman. The LMW was reported to LE between 6:30 PM and 10:30 PM on 4/16 and was the first reported sighting of RFG. According to JKA, the theory on 4/17 was that RFG was spending the weekend with another woman. A lot of people thought that he was in the water, but a lot thought he was having a "wild weekend" in the words of DZ (a year later). That "come home, Ray," might have been prompted by that.

I think that DZ said on Disappeared that they were hoping that RFG would hear that he was missing, and call in.

Lord_Chatterly · Nov 21, 2011

J. J. in Phila said:
As far as I know, LE never did a search across the river. Tony Gricar indicated, at one point, he looked around a quarry or gravel pit that was across the river. I have never heard of a ground search by LE, with a cadaver dog or not, across the river.

I would note that, as in the Rosa case, that is not too unusual.

As for PEF, et c., my understanding is that a lot of people thought that RFG was with a woman. The LMW was reported to LE between 6:30 PM and 10:30 PM on 4/16 and was the first reported sighting of RFG. According to JKA, the theory on 4/17 was that RFG was spending the weekend with another woman. A lot of people thought that he was in the water, but a lot thought he was having a "wild weekend" in the words of DZ (a year later). That "come home, Ray," might have been prompted by that.

I think that DZ said on Disappeared that they were hoping that RFG would hear that he was missing, and call in.

Thanks JJ...back to basics here...Lewisburg...a search on other side of river, or not ? I wonder if some Lewisburg folks who may read in on this thread could offer us any sort of opinion, or clue.

J. J. in Phila · Nov 21, 2011

Here is a photo: http://media.centredaily.com/smedia...rRay4.aurora_standalone.prod_affiliate.42.jpg

I you don't know, LG is in the center, PEF is on her right. Who would you say that is on her left (the rightmost woman on the photo)?

Lord_Chatterly · Nov 21, 2011

J. J. in Phila said:
Here is a photo: http://media.centredaily.com/smedia...rRay4.aurora_standalone.prod_affiliate.42.jpg

I you don't know, LG is in the center, PEF is on her right. Who would you say that is on her left (the rightmost woman on the photo)?

Now would that be RFG's ex-wife, also LG's mother? From accounts I had read, she, too, had come forward.

J. J. in Phila · Nov 21, 2011

cj327 said:
JJ- I read your LMW theory and I was wondering if you had any additional thoughts regarding the reported sighting of RFG and PEF in a park having something like a serious conversation the night before he disappeared. This is one thing that suggests that there was something going on between them that we don't know about (I would guess she did tell police though).

It's not a theory; it is what people said was happening.

I'm just repeating it.

According to the account, former commissioner Vicki Wedler, I think, they were just walking. VW said that they looked like "a perfect couple" or something like that. PEF thought the comment was personal and frowned or something; RFG smiled and/or nodded.

They were just walking, not discussing anything.

VW and RFG had some political disagreements when she was commissioner. It is possible that this could have shaded PEF's reaction as well.

I mean, ANY excuse would have been better than NO excuse for disappearing. I would assume the people who run WPP know that!

Yes, and do they really me plastering his photo across the Internet, television shows on him, newspaper stories. I mean, it is 6 1/2 years, and he's still front page news. I certainly have not been making easy for them.

J. J. in Phila · Nov 21, 2011

Lord_Chatterly said:
Now would that be RFG's ex-wife ? From accounts I had read, she, too, had been called forward.

I don't know what you mean, "called forward."

When I first saw that photo, I though she was PEF's aunt or something. I was surprised by the resemblance. Both short, same build, same chins, even the same glasses. Both have short hair.

Pensfan · Nov 21, 2011

Waupalani St. said:
lol yinz know much of PA is stuck in the eighties....(I'm from a Stillers town in W PA "Just a Steel Town girl on a Sturday Night..."ala Flashdance)...I kept thinking, Patty would look so cute in a pixie cut, or even a page boy cut...

ROFL Here is some music by the Clarks for this conversation!

It houses circus freaks, temptation and the Fayette County Fair
And it reeks of love gone sour, suspicion and big hair
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/clarks/cigarette.html

The Clarks are an aging rock band from the Pittsburgh region, originating at Indiana University of Pennsylvania (60 miles from State College).

Lord_Chatterly · Nov 21, 2011

J. J. in Phila said:
When I first saw that photo, I though she was PEF's aunt or something. I was surprised by the resemblance. Both short, same build, same chins, even the same glasses. Both have short hair.

Interesting observation, JJ, I noticed the resemblance as you did. It may not be that unusual for a man, upon remarriage, or perhaps with a "paramour" (a word I, too find disgusting, as another Poster had expressed), to pick another with surprising looks similarities.

I had a sister (now deceased) who married a divorced man, and I had met his Ex-wife at one time, and darn near passed out at the resemblance b/w my sister and his ex. Just something that happens, not that I can explain it.

What thoughts do you have, or is there another point you want to build on this ? Thanks.

eriklatranyi · Nov 21, 2011

Lord_Chatterly said:
Thanks JJ...back to basics here...Lewisburg...a search on other side of river, or not ? I wonder if some Lewisburg folks who may read in on this thread could offer us any sort of opinion, or clue.

On the other side of the river, traveling east towards Montandon on PA RT 45, there is a quarry with some deep, water-filled pits. The area is very rural and typical of small Pennsylvania "boroughs".

Since it is more secluded than downtown Lewisburg, nefarious people would have been better-served meeting RFG on that side of the river.

AllisonS · Nov 21, 2011

J. J. in Phila said:
I don't know what you mean, "called forward."

When I first saw that photo, I though she was PEF's aunt or something. I was surprised by the resemblance. Both short, same build, same chins, even the same glasses. Both have short hair.

Wouldn't you say that most people have a 'type' that they like?

J. J. in Phila · Nov 21, 2011

eriklatranyi said:
On the other side of the river, traveling east towards Montandon on PA RT 45, there is a quarry with some deep, water-filled pits. The area is very rural and typical of small Pennsylvania "boroughs".

Since it is more secluded than downtown Lewisburg, nefarious people would have been better-served meeting RFG on that side of the river.

It is not even a borough, but an unincorporated place. There is a preserved wetlands there, basically a swamp. There are a lot of places to hide a body or commit suicide.

J. J. in Phila · Nov 21, 2011

Lord_Chatterly said:
Interesting observation, JJ, I noticed the resemblance as you did. It may not be that unusual for a man, upon remarriage, or perhaps with a "paramour" (a word I, too find disgusting, as another Poster had expressed), to pick another with surprising looks similarities.

I had a sister (now deceased) who married a divorced man, and I had met his Ex-wife at one time, and darn near passed out at the resemblance b/w my sister and his ex. Just something that happens, not that I can explain it.

What thoughts do you have, or is there another point you want to build on this ? Thanks.

No, but PEF's appearance might have been what attracted RFG.

When I read the story first, I expected PEF to be a leggy blond because of the age difference. Young girlfriend, flashy car. I thought RFG was in the midst of a mid-life crisis. Ah, no.

So much for first impressions.

And yes, I think people can be attracted to a type.

Lord_Chatterly · Nov 21, 2011

eriklatranyi said:
On the other side of the river, traveling east towards Montandon on PA RT 45, there is a quarry with some deep, water-filled pits. The area is very rural and typical of small Pennsylvania "boroughs".

Since it is more secluded than downtown Lewisburg, nefarious people would have been better-served meeting RFG on that side of the river.

Now this is interesting. I wonder if LE has ever considered the area you describe. Major Hmmmm... thanks so much.

Lord_Chatterly · Nov 21, 2011

J. J. in Phila said:
It is not even a borough, but an unincorporated place. There is a preserved wetlands there, basically a swamp. There are a lot of places to hide a body or commit suicide.

I just did some panning around on Google Earth, for the area that you have described. That entire area, just beyond East Lewisburg is eery looking at best. There also seems to be some sort of quarry operation there with possible buildings that may have dock doors. Wish I could provide link to what I looked at...best bet, run Google Earth for Lewisburg, pan across river at the bridge, and look South in a line parallel to the river. That place really jumped out at me...even scarier looking was the date of the satellite imagery...3-31-05...one can even see the vehicles parked at this 'facility'. Chills...ty. Go look for yourselves.

SeekingJana · Nov 21, 2011

J. J. in Phila said:
I don't know what you mean, "called forward."

When I first saw that photo, I though she was PEF's aunt or something. I was surprised by the resemblance. Both short, same build, same chins, even the same glasses. Both have short hair.

Hmm, we covered this ground months ago. Did you not believe me, LOL?

PS- I think both women are extremely unattractive. And I am a very tall blonde.

J. J. in Phila · Nov 21, 2011

Lord_Chatterly said:
I just did some panning around on Google Earth, for the area that you have described. That entire area, just beyond East Lewisburg is eery looking at best. There also seems to be some sort of quarry operation there with possible buildings that may have dock doors. Wish I could provide link to what I looked at...best bet, run Google Earth for Lewisburg, pan across river at the bridge, and look South in a line parallel to the river. That place really jumped out at me...even scarier looking was the date of the satellite imagery...3-31-05...one can even see the vehicles parked at this 'facility'. Chills...ty. Go look for yourselves.

On March 16, 2009, a fellow blogger and former police officer, Slamdunk, posted a blog about the Montandon Marsh area as a possible place for the body.

http://theslamdunktrove.blogspot.com/2009/03/part-xi-ray-gricar-missing-person.html

On March 17, 2010, I wrote a blog about checking a two mile radius on the east side of the Lewisburg Bridge, which includes the Montandon Marsh.

http://www.centredaily.com/2010/03/17/2397229/roads-not-taken-the-bridgehead.html

On November 21, 2011, as far as I know, it has not been checked.

Lord_Chatterly · Nov 21, 2011

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/11/21/bullies-force-penn-state-sexual-abuse-victim-out-school

Today's PSU catastrophe. Freeh has no subpoena power, Wow, the Good Old Boys hang in there.

I had seen CDT's Sarah Ganim on HLN just now, to boot, and is the media screaming now !

PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

Verified Insider

New Member

New Member

Active Member

New Member

Verified Insider

New Member

Verified Insider

Verified Insider

Former Member

New Member

New Member

Former Member

Verified Insider

Verified Insider

New Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Verified Insider

New Member

DNASolves

Online statistics

Forum statistics