IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #16

Status
Not open for further replies.
I agree, Delphi is such a small town(less than 5,000 people). If he actually lived in Delphi with his picture and voice recording released, SOMEONE WOULD KNOW HIM. He is very familiar with that park, but he is not from the area.

I feel like he may have grown up visiting that area as a child or a teen. Like maybe his grandparents lived nearby--and he spent summers or holidays there. But no one would recognize him now as an adult if his relatives have passed away or moved away...
 
Me thinks familiar with but not from. There are numerous theories as to why the perpetrator would be in the area, in particular that area. He will have multiple reasons for being there, not just one. Also, if and when he is found, it will be someone no one suspected, not an RSO or someone with a prior record, most likely a well respected individual in the community. Also it will be someone who is familiar with police investigative techniques and took steps to conceal and, perhaps even, misdirect LE. A wild guess as to where the offender resides would be Lebanon.

There are always numerous possibilities and theories but many times there will be a history of predatory behavior in such vicious cases involving children.

This was not his first rodeo and we know that he must of frequented the park quite often.

If he does not live or work in the area it could open up other possibilities to be sure but proximity and knowledge of the location speak to someone that lives or works in the area in general.

It is possible he could be an offender that has not been caught yet but probabilities are that he has a legal history as well and is indeed a child offender in specific.

The amount of "possible" rso workers in said plant which is within short distance to the Monon High Bridge is in the double digits, being child offenders in particular which is troubling.

Regardless, they will check them all out I assume and work out from there, we hopefully will find resolution and Justice for Libby and Abby no matter who perpetrated this heinous crime.
 
Thinking about whether one or two perps, I'm leaning towards one. The reason is the audio. If there was more than one voice heard on it LE would know that there was an accomplice. But since they don't know I have to assume only one voice was heard. And why would a second assailant be silent the whole time? Libby probably recorded for several minutes or even longer. I think it would be unlikely that the second person said not one word while they were walking with Abby and Libby and then committed the crime. This is jmo and just by what we know so far.
 
Good ideas but he might have noticed them while they were driving to the drop-off point on the north in the car with the older sister, followed them, observed the 3 girls stopping, then drove a littler further to the cemetary, parked and hiked in and observed the girls from a hidden spot to confirm they were alone.
Hello everyone, my first post here and I am glad I found the site.
e
My opinion is this. BG knows or had a meeting set with these girls. He knew precisely who they were and that they were alone. Otherwise how does BG make a straight shot for them not knowing if "Dad" or "Family" aren't in the woods hiking around while the girls were on the bridge? All it takes is to be walking off with these girls and have "Dad" and "Uncle" come out of the woods looking for the girls and game over. BG is not going to chance it. Also, he has to know the frequency that this place is visited...low traffic means less chance of getting caught, high unexpected traffic gets him caught. Hes very familiar with this place and has seeded this plan for awhile. Possibly a neighbor who over time cultivated an online persona of a teen or something else. I hope they find him quick. He will never be finished.
 
Thinking about whether one or two perps, I'm leaning towards one. The reason is the audio. If there was more than one voice heard on it LE would know that there was an accomplice. But since they don't know I have to assume only one voice was heard. And why would a second assailant be silent the whole time? Libby probably recorded for several minutes or even longer. I think it would be unlikely that the second person said not one word while they were walking with Abby and Libby and then committed the crime. This is jmo and just by what we know so far.

You are spot on, this is why I 100% believe there is only one man who killed these two girls, and that is BG.
 
Hello to Everyone!, this is my first post.

I was thinking, if the guy caught by accident in Snapchat was walking where they were, then the girls got scared of him, and the killer was close and he approached to calm down.

Sorry for my bad english
I do the best I can
 
Q
I disagree. Looks to me like she tries to do it quickly. No time to focus and adjust. Made it quick and less conspicuous. Otherwise BG would have seen what she was doing and taken it from her. Then she would not have been able to record as well.

We called it here before LE did, she's a hero. I maintain the audio and visual evidence will be key to a conviction. Just imagine where we would be without it.
 
I think most here agree that he knew the park and was familiar with the spot he chose to leave them, and I think so too.

But, if he's been there before, even often, how come nobody remembers the guy from past visits to the park? The park is not a lonely spot where noone ever goes, it is visited frequently.

Is he so good at becoming invisible?

Maybe LE should make an appeal to everyone who's visited the park in the past to look through photos and videos they have taken there, maybe someone has another picture of him.
 
JUST a theory..MOO..
The Snapchat pic has stuck in my head as more than a casual photo op. In the beginning, someone posted that they thought the girls looked like they were "waiting." Put that on the back burner..
I think the perp is familiar w the area on purpose. Not necessarily local to Delphi, but close enough to drive there pretty quick. He could have scouted the area out on foot, as well as via photos just like we have. I don't think he'd want to go there more than a time or two..wouldn't want to be noticed. To go to the spot where the girls were found without knowing about it ahead of time, well that could have landed him in someone's backyard.
I agree with the ideas about him parking in the cemetery, since it's been reported that a vehicle could be somewhat hidden.
Now, going back to Snapchat..Libby took pics and posted them from 2 views of the bridge..what was in front of them & what was behind. If this was a catfish case in any possible way, the perp could have gotten word that they'd be there at 1..and given Libby instructions to post pics that no one was around when they got to the bridge. So they do that. I'd assume he's already close by in a vehicle. He gets the snapchat and parks at the cemetery and does the walk in to the bridge, probably passing by the place he plans to take them. Maybe even leaving a "kill kit" on site. He arrives and perhaps upon seeing him enter the tracks from the woods, Libby knows it's him..but it's not who she's expecting. As he approaches, she starts video. Her frame of mind may have been "We are out of here, but I'm reporting THIS guy," before he had even spoken a word to them..and thought they were just going to get outta Dodge.
Now in the other hand, the Snapchat pic could be as ominous as the video. If Libby WAS able to post that snap from the bridge, then ideally she could send a text or dial 911. Did they maybe see the perp lurking and wanted to document to tell someone later? But weren't scared enough to call or text anyone. And when he came close by she started up the video for the same purpose? My guess is he assumed or knew one of them would have a phone and regardless of if they'd gotten a pic, he'd toss it in the river..end of evidence. Or so he thought.
I feel like the cemetery would be a good escape route, especially if he knew the girls had a pick up time in a short while. I believe the crime was over or nearly over when family began looking and calling out for them. I believe it was sexual and I believe it was very violent. I do not subscribe to the theories of "not intending it to happen" and I don't believe it was a simple strangulation. IMO, he used the girls as leverage against on another and a taser wouldn't be out of the question to incapacitate them both while zip tying them to keep them from running. If Libby's phone was still w her, it surely would have been going off if the sound was on. Perhaps that prompted a toss in the river. Anyway, IMO, he made haste in getting out to the cemetery and out of the area. From the time the girls were supposed to be picked up until midnight that night, I believe the presence of people would have been enough that SOMEONE would remember seeing him leaving. And hey, maybe I'm all wrong and they DID see someone walk off..hence the quest for tips about hitchhikers, etc. sorry for the ramble. Just my thoughts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I essentially agree with your theory. And since we're talking about theories and speculation, here's mine:

I think that social media is a definite aspect in this case. To me, it makes the most sense in regards to how the assailant were to have "found them" so to speak. (*Of course there are other theories that are valid like the ones I posted re: Victimology and Criminology of Child Abduction/Murder cases, like the assailant is most likely a stranger if the victims are aged 13-17; according to the literature. If the child victims are younger in age, the assailant is usually a family member or an acquaintance of some sort.)

He didn't necessarily have to had "friended" or even officially "followed" either of the girls to get information. Nor he didn't technically have to make any direct contact with them; he could have passively followed and or "stalked" them or people close to them. It's possible to glean information from innocent information. In fact, as demonstrated here daily, it's rather simple and anonymous. We can find out about a lot and look at many things and glean a lot of information and it can be anonymous (guests).

It's a fact that Liberty had a "Kik" Messaging App and this app has been directly linked to child exploitation because of the high level of anonymity it offers. Her Kik acct was linked to her Twitter. Anyone could say they're anybody on that app and no one is the wiser. Here is some useful information I got about Kik:

"A main attraction of Kik that differentiates it from other messaging apps is its anonymity. To register for the Kik service, a user must enter a first and last name, e-mail address, and birth date (which, as of February 2016, must show that the user is at least 13 years old[20]), and select a username.[4] Users' names and birth dates are not verified, allowing users to misrepresent their identity and/or age if they so choose.[21] The Kik registration process does not request or require the entry of a phone number (although the user has the option to enter one[20]), unlike some other messaging services that require a user to provide a functioning mobile phone number.[3]

The New York Times has reported that according to law enforcement, Kik's anonymity features go beyond those of most widely used apps.[8] As of February 2016, Kik's guide for law enforcement said that the company cannot locate user accounts based on first and last name, e-mail address and/or birth date; the exact username is required to locate a particular account. The guide further said that the company does not have access to content or "historical user data" such as photographs, videos, and the text of conversations, and that photographs and videos are automatically deleted shortly after they are sent. A limited amount of data from a particular account (identified by exact username), including first and last name, birthdate, e-mail address, link to a current profile picture, device-related information, and user location information such as the most recently used IP address, can be preserved for a period of 90 days pending receipt of a valid order from law enforcement.[4]"

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kik_Messenger

I'm not sure why this social media angle wouldn't be more heavily weighted as a possibility vs. some rando waiting in the woods for maybe someone to come along... I would think that if someone was bound and determined to do what he did and take the risks he was taking, it makes sense to me that he would in theory give himself the best chance of "success" and ensure what he wanted to do would actually happen...

What other way could he have done so (guaranteed himself the best chance to do what he did) other than social media?

IMO, he somehow knew and prepared for them that day. I think Liberty dropped her phone on purpose at some point so he wouldn't take it (or something to that effect).

He's a bad man who wanted to do and did very bad things. I don't think he's a bumbling fool who got lucky, I think he was well prepared for and planned what happened. IMO.

I also don't think he's a local but with technology, he could have familiarized himself with the area, he could have scoped it out prior, etc... I don't think he's local because of the nation wide billboards, but I don't think he's a drifter.

I think when Liberty was filming him, he was also looking down as to not arouse their suspicions. Kinda like a kid who doesn't want to be called on in class; they avoid eye contact and make themselves smaller.

By looking at the two stills, he seems to be making himself as less menacing as possible by lowering his head, hands in pockets, shoulders forward, etc... We also don't know if Liberty was filming as he arrived on scene. She could have been. Or she could have started filming him because he did creep her out, we don't know that. But I'd bet that what ever else she recorded answers those questions.

I do think he was a stranger to them.

Of course, this is all MOO.
 
You are correct, LE praised Libby because she had the presence of mind to actually video the suspect under duress, the picture is blurry because it was a "still" photo lifted from the video footage from her phone.

To add, it seems like the released photos were at a distance, or using digital zoom. Phone cameras are quite good with video within a certain tolerance, the further away, the more distorted the image will be. IMO the screencaps look like they have either been cropped from a larger image or taken with digital zoom.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Great idea, somebody might a shot with him in the background, could pinpoint the date of any prior visits, could help identify his schedule. Also, think that concentrating on the Indiana Packer plant and other industry within a few miles of the CS would be good. Perhaps, this perp had a bad day at work, got reamed out by the boss on that Feb 13th. Bosses should be asked who had a bad day.
Also want to point out that Elizabeth and Lyric (8 and 10 year old cousins found murdered in Ohio) were also found in a little grove of trees.


I think most here agree that he knew the park and was familiar with the spot he chose to leave them, and I think so too.

But, if he's been there before, even often, how come nobody remembers the guy from past visits to the park? The park is not a lonely spot where noone ever goes, it is visited frequently.

Is he so good at becoming invisible?

Maybe LE should make an appeal to everyone who's visited the park in the past to look through photos and videos they have taken there, maybe someone has another picture of him.
 
The grade school I grew up by in Western, NY, was roughly 600-650 feet from the house I grew up in. An older grade schooler could probably cover that distance in well under 5 minutes.

The distance from the SE end of the bridge, to the killing spot/field, could have been traversed in under 10, maybe 12 minutes. Even considering the terrain.
 
I think most here agree that he knew the park and was familiar with the spot he chose to leave them, and I think so too.

But, if he's been there before, even often, how come nobody remembers the guy from past visits to the park? The park is not a lonely spot where noone ever goes, it is visited frequently.

Is he so good at becoming invisible?

Maybe LE should make an appeal to everyone who's visited the park in the past to look through photos and videos they have taken there, maybe someone has another picture of him.
People often remember intimidating or threatening persons, not nice guys, so the guy can be kind and that serves as a desguise.
 
Libby did not take a picture 'of him'. Libby took a picture which happened to capture him. Look at the picture she took of Abby. Taken from a fair distance, and yet the image is so clear. 'HE' was not the subject of the image the police have released. He just happened to be somewhere in the background. This wasn't deliberate on Libby's part AT THIS STAGE

.
Unless she didn't want him to know he was the focus of the picture. She could have been walking, he's walking, it's not going to be clear like the other photo. It may have been a quick snap. Idk, I wasn't there, but by her getting his voice, seemingly deliberately, I think she tried to grab a photo too. They have said that relatives dropped them off. I'm thinking the relatives thought they were there to meet friends. She was possibly trying to get the pic to someone who'd see they may be in trouble. I could be wrong though. I'm not 100% sold on it, but it is in my top theories right now. Of course I'd say their SM is being gone through w/a fine toothed comb.
 
I think most here agree that he knew the park and was familiar with the spot he chose to leave them, and I think so too.

But, if he's been there before, even often, how come nobody remembers the guy from past visits to the park? The park is not a lonely spot where noone ever goes, it is visited frequently.

Is he so good at becoming invisible?

Maybe LE should make an appeal to everyone who's visited the park in the past to look through photos and videos they have taken there, maybe someone has another picture of him.

The best place to hide is in plain sight. A hiker, hunter, boater or person with some other reason to be in the park would not be memorable or suspicious. I'm sure that when the guy preciously visited the area, he wasn't wearing the same outfit and even if he was it is doubtful anyone would recall it. I can't remember what I wore last week, let alone a stranger I had a brief encounter with months ago.
 
.
Unless she didn't want him to know he was the focus of the picture. She could have been walking, he's walking, it's not going to be clear like the other photo. It may have been a quick snap. Idk, I wasn't there, but by her getting his voice, seemingly deliberately, I think she tried to grab a photo too. They have said that relatives dropped them off. I'm thinking the relatives thought they were there to meet friends. She was possibly trying to get the pic to someone who'd see they may be in trouble. I could be wrong though. I'm not 100% sold on it, but it is in my top theories right now. Of course I'd say their SM is being gone through w/a fine toothed comb.

LE advised the public that Liberty took a video of him and the pictures we are all seeing are screen caps/stills from that video (not actual pictures she took) and that's another reason why the pics are so grainy.

"Police on Wednesday said the source of that photo was a video German had taken on her cell phone."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/22/us/indiana-girls-hikers-missing-suspect/
 
Thinking about whether one or two perps, I'm leaning towards one. The reason is the audio. If there was more than one voice heard on it LE would know that there was an accomplice. But since they don't know I have to assume only one voice was heard. And why would a second assailant be silent the whole time? Libby probably recorded for several minutes or even longer. I think it would be unlikely that the second person said not one word while they were walking with Abby and Libby and then committed the crime. This is jmo and just by what we know so far.
Another reason why I agree with this is how would one of them not have come forward already in hopes of a plea bargin for turning the other one in? MOO

Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk
 
Which brings to my mind that RSO's should not have accesss to social media, and perhaps should be monitored re: their electronic and online media acrivities.

I kicked a RSO off my FB page shortly after this case gained media attention. Child *advertiser censored* and other paraphilias related to children and juveniles in general are a major problem, these days. The state he is now registered in, which is not the state of conviction, does not have a mandate re: social media memberships and activity.

So it's perfectly plausible a perv with a record committed these crimes, perhaps even escalated his activities in recent times.

Based on what I've read here, this is going to be a very unpopular opinion, but RSOs are not created equally. Registration laws are unacceptably broad.

What we know today as a RSO was created in the mid-90's (an era of draconian "tough on crime" laws, and was originally backed by Jacob Wetterling's mother. She now is an activist against the current state of RSO laws in the US because these laws have created a class of permanently marginalized individuals who are treated the same, without respect to the degree of their offenses. That marginalization often drives "low-risk" offenders to commit other crimes.

(Wetterling's mother on the matter: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...stry_laws_have_our_policies_gone_too_far.html)

I worked as a public defender and saw far too many instances of registration actually increasing the harm on society because RSOs can't live or work in many places. One client, with no prior history of any misconduct other than a couple driving tickets, was convicted 20+ years ago of a sexual assault of his college roommate. He expressed remorse, did his time, and was released. However, since he had to register, he had very few options on where he could live and work. Ultimately, he resorted to property crime to support himself and the drug habit he developed in prison.

Or take another guy convicted of statutory rape of his then-girlfriend: he gets paroled and deliberately violated so he would get sent back to prison. The city in which he was paroled had no place he could live in compliance with his registration requirements, so he was homeless. There were a lot of these homeless registrants, which to me seemed hilariously inconsistent with the purpose of these laws to monitor for potential repeat offenses.

Of course, there are plenty of RSOs who should be monitored very closely, but it's stupid to do it the way we are.

Do you really think a 20 year old convicted of statutory rape for consensual sex with a 17 year old creates the same risk to the community as a repeated child molester?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
187
Guests online
4,175
Total visitors
4,362

Forum statistics

Threads
593,170
Messages
17,982,000
Members
229,049
Latest member
Krusty2009
Back
Top