The Box From Hell (BFH) - Part 2

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I was going to check ancestry but I see ozziemom beat me to it. I have a full membership, so Ozziemum if you need help, let me know. I agree about the Italian consulate question Cubby. Why would one contact a consulate?
Cubby said:
Has anyone with an ancestry membership looked to see if Anna could have been adopted by the Everette L. Damron family?

I tend to think GW knew of ELD rather than GB. Most people who met GB were immediately turned off by him, aside from the few who bought into his strange theories. I can't see someone with ELD's work history having any interest in Brody whatsoever.

I guess what perplexes me now is why Italy? Why would GW need to contact the italian consulate?

jmo
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Julessleuther said:
I was going to check ancestry but I see ozziemom beat me to it. I have a full membership, so Ozziemum if you need help, let me know. I agree about the Italian consulate question Cubby. Why would one contact a consulate?
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Hi Julessleuther,

Go for it. Two sets of eyes are better than one. Never know if I might have missed something.
 
one_hooah_wife said:
Hmmmm ... Just this past week I had to sign a form for my son to go on a mission trip to Mexico, since his dad is getting his passport done while he is with him on Spring break and I would not be there. I had to have that document notarized because when applying for a passport for a minor child both parents must sign.
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Children having to have their own passports is relatively new. Back then they travelled on their parents passports. I know that in the early 90's this was still the case as well. I tried to find when the ruling was changed but all I could find was:

At one time it was common for a parent's passport to include the names and photos of his or her children. These "family passports" allowed children to travel together with their parent(s) without the need to issue individual passports to each child. Family passports were not valid for children to travel by themselves or with someone other than a parent. The United States and the United Kingdom once issued family passports, but no longer do so.

So if he had her listed on his passport, she would not have needed her own since she was so young.
 
Thank you petchie. Then the childs name would appear on the parents application if they were to have traveled with a child correct? Just clarifying my own understanding.
 
petchie said:
Children having to have their own passports is relatively new. Back then they travelled on their parents passports. I know that in the early 90's this was still the case as well. I tried to find when the ruling was changed but all I could find was:

At one time it was common for a parent's passport to include the names and photos of his or her children. These "family passports" allowed children to travel together with their parent(s) without the need to issue individual passports to each child. Family passports were not valid for children to travel by themselves or with someone other than a parent. The United States and the United Kingdom once issued family passports, but no longer do so.

So if he had her listed on his passport, she would not have needed her own since she was so young.
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I love your Mozart quote, Petchie. My little boys were on my passport in the sixties.
 
Ok, this may be a dumb question, but long ago I decided the only dumb questions were the ones never asked.

If I understand this correctly, the application for GW would have had to include both himself and a child. The application for the parent also included an area to list all children that would be traveling with the parent. What I want to clarify is when Annasmom got the copies of the passport applications she would have gotten one or two. Where there two, one for the original and a second for the replacement? And neither showed GW having added Anna to his passport. Would he have had Anna on the original and not the replacement then claimed it was burned so she no longer showed as being on the passport?

Is that how that works?

TIA!
 
Cubby said:
Ok, this may be a dumb question, but long ago I decided the only dumb questions were the ones never asked.

If I understand this correctly, the application for GW would have had to include both himself and a child. The application for the parent also included an area to list all children that would be traveling with the parent. What I want to clarify is when Annasmom got the copies of the passport applications she would have gotten one or two. Where there two, one for the original and a second for the replacement? And neither showed GW having added Anna to his passport. Would he have had Anna on the original and not the replacement then claimed it was burned so she no longer showed as being on the passport?

Is that how that works?

TIA!
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I received all GW's passport applications (I think it was four), going back to age 20. Anna's name was not mentioned on any of the applications. The Sheriff's office had the passport people check to see if a passport had ever been issued to Anna under her real name; they found none. This does not preclude having a passport amended, as far as I know (and then destroyed), or having a fake passport, or having a passport for Anna under another name.
 
Annasmom said:
I received all GW's passport applications (I think it was four), going back to age 20. Anna's name was not mentioned on any of the applications. The Sheriff's office had the passport people check to see if a passport had ever been issued to Anna under her real name; they found none. This does not preclude having a passport amended, as far as I know (and then destroyed), or having a fake passport, or having a passport for Anna under another name.
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That's exactly what I thought, so the information would not rule out that Anna was not taken or arranged to be taken overseas by the two G's.
 
Annasmom said:
I love your Mozart quote, Petchie. My little boys were on my passport in the sixties.
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Thank you. I am trying to learn to think more outside the box.

Sometimes, I think, that we all see the "notes" when looking for missing persons or unidentified persons, but we forget to look at what isn't there as well. It may be the "silence" that holds the answer.

I have been reading the posts here for over a year but never had much to offer. I wish you well in your search and will try to help however I can.
 
Dr. Doogie,

I hope you don't mind, I emailed the St. Louis Mercantile Library to find out about the TWA passenger lists which were to be archived. This is the email I received.

"The TWA Collection has still only been partially processed and at this time the finding aid does not contain any passenger lists. Please let me know if I can answer any additional questions or concerns."


Sincerely,

Curator, Special Collections

~~ This is disheartening information in that we thought/hoped that the TWA passenger existed and were to be archived. I wonder where they are and if they are accessible in the near future?

Question: If G. Waters decided Anna would fare well in Italy, and if he contacted the Italian Consulate, would the Italian Airways have lists/stamps of visitors to their country?

SK.
 
SideKick said:
Dr. Doogie,

I hope you don't mind, I emailed the St. Louis Mercantile Library to find out about the TWA passenger lists which were to be archived. This is the email I received.

"The TWA Collection has still only been partially processed and at this time the finding aid does not contain any passenger lists. Please let me know if I can answer any additional questions or concerns."


Sincerely,

Curator, Special Collections

~~ This is disheartening information in that we thought/hoped that the TWA passenger existed and were to be archived. I wonder where they are and if they are accessible in the near future?

Question: If G. Waters decided Anna would fare well in Italy, and if he contacted the Italian Consulate, would the Italian Airways have lists/stamps of visitors to their country?

SK.
Click to expand...

If GW took Anna to Italy, wouldn't she have become an illegal immigrant once her visa ran out? Would the Italian government have lists of people that have over stayed their visa? Maybe someone could contact the Italian consulate and find out. If they do have lists we might be able to get the names of any children, girls and boys (it would be easy to cut Anna's hair and dress her as a boy) that over stayed their visa in 1973.
 
OzzieMum said:
If GW took Anna to Italy, wouldn't she have become an illegal immigrant once her visa ran out? Would the Italian government have lists of people that have over stayed their visa? Maybe someone could contact the Italian consulate and find out. If they do have lists we might be able to get the names of any children, girls and boys (it would be easy to cut Anna's hair and dress her as a boy) that over stayed their visa in 1973.
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I do remember reading about a possible connection to Italy a while back but I cannot remember why it was made. Can someone please refresh my memory!

: )
 
Pink Panther said:
I do remember reading about a possible connection to Italy a while back but I cannot remember why it was made. Can someone please refresh my memory!

: )
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GW's notes mentioned a visit to the Italian Consultate.
 
I believe there were no Visas needed for Italy in the 1970's.

OzzieMum said:
If GW took Anna to Italy, wouldn't she have become an illegal immigrant once her visa ran out? Would the Italian government have lists of people that have over stayed their visa? Maybe someone could contact the Italian consulate and find out. If they do have lists we might be able to get the names of any children, girls and boys (it would be easy to cut Anna's hair and dress her as a boy) that over stayed their visa in 1973.
Click to expand...
 
Once again I thought it would be a good idea to reconsider the motive of The Plan, what it really mean't, the dates, MONY, stand for? Did anyone call them?

The Plan

1. Contact MONY--p (line on top) Final Arrangements - 2 L's have been made
2. Apply for $100,000. (January 1973)
3. 3 months negotiate -c (line on top) ACE
4. 3 months later change B (beneficiary)?

I know we have battered this before but the January 1973 is very interesting, then the next 6 months they negotiate and change Beneficiary...

So then we're looking at March and June for the beneficiary change.

This may have been answered in the past, does anyone recall if MONY was called to see if there is any paperwork on Waters account? Does MONY still exist?
Waters Bank account: was that ever looked into? Did he have one in near the Tenderloin?

Fresh Ideas Welcome! :propeller:

Thanks SK
 
Looks like MONY still exists as AXA Equitable.

And the p with line is medspeak for "after"; the c with line means "with."

I'm thinking ACE = Anna Christian Eiffee

The 2 L's - now that has me stumped.
 
link to and copied photo of the plan

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11624535@N08/1139982159/in/set-72157601489072011/



1139982159_f2d98de93b_o.jpg
 
We intially interpreted to mean something close to.

Contact MONY (mutual of ?) with final arrangements after Lloyds ( of london ) ? been made.

Interpreted to mean make arrangements with one insurance company after arrangements with the other had been made.

Apply for ACE as B-scratched out.

Interpreted as make arrangements for Anne Christian Eifee as Beneficiary - changed to B.

3 months later increase to 5 - still ace (still Anna as beneficiary)

3 months later change to B
interpreted as meaning to Brody.

In either of the best or worst case scenario- it is apparent they were scratching for legitimate reasons to provide an insurance provider with a good reason for such a substantial amount of insurance to be provided to GB.

It is not easy in todays age, I think, to easily obtain a half million dollar life insurance police. The increases would have set off a red flag to the carrier. The two G's known habits would easily fall into finding ways around the red flags.

Leaves me with the how to? for the two G's.

I'm sure that is clear as mud..... but possible an angle with Berns dream about a wallet, stolen identity, matching up with a deceased child?
 
Cubby said:
We intially interpreted to mean something close to.

Contact MONY (mutual of ?) with final arrangements after Lloyds ( of london ) ? been made.

Interpreted to mean make arrangements with one insurance company after arrangements with the other had been made.

Apply for ACE as B-scratched out.

Interpreted as make arrangements for Anne Christian Eifee as Beneficiary - changed to B.

3 months later increase to 5 - still ace (still Anna as beneficiary)

3 months later change to B
interpreted as meaning to Brody.

In either of the best or worst case scenario- it is apparent they were scratching for legitimate reasons to provide an insurance provider with a good reason for such a substantial amount of insurance to be provided to GB.

It is not easy in todays age, I think, to easily obtain a half million dollar life insurance police. The increases would have set off a red flag to the carrier. The two G's known habits would easily fall into finding ways around the red flags.

Leaves me with the how to? for the two G's.

I'm sure that is clear as mud..... but possible an angle with Berns dream about a wallet, stolen identity, matching up with a deceased child?
Click to expand...

Hi Cubby,

I've been thinking for some time that we should have a thread just for the squibb notes. That way we could have them all in one place and post our interpretations of them. It would also make it so much easier to find a particular squibb note when we want to refer back to them if they are all at the start of the thread.

I would do it if I knew how :(

Don't know what you think, let me know.
 
I'm not sure we need a seperate thread for squib notes at this time but we can keep the option open.

I'm not sure if members realize by clicking on the paper clip icon to the right of the thread title it gives the direct link to attachments.

Here is the link for the attachments, including the squib notes, from the BFH thread part 1.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/misc.php?do=showattachments&t=50434

Does this help?
 
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