Drew Peterson's Trial *THIRD WEEK*

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katydid23 said:
That would make more sense---that he used a gun to gain compliance---but it does not match with all of her injuries. It seems like they did some physical battling.

Maybe she knew he would not want to shoot her because it would be too noticeable. So she began to fight him.
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If he did use a gun to intimidate her, maybe he used the butt of that gun to hit her in the back of her head, and that's what caused the gash on the back of her head?
 
WindyCityGirl said:
Given that we have had so few witnesses each day, how much longer do you think that it will take for the prosecution to finish with their witnesses?
We have had some very powerful testimony, but very few witnesses. :bananalama: this is nuts!
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My best guess is that the prosecution will likely finish their case in chief late this week or early next week.

I don't think the defense has publicly released a list of potential witnesses.

I've been thinking about who the defense might call as witnesses other than the likelihood of a few expert witnesses who will be paid for their testimony.

One thing I have noticed is that there's one witness who hasn't testified. The night Kathleen's body was found, there were three adult neighbors who went into Kathleen's house..................Tom and Mary Pontarelli, and Steve Carcerano. In fact, it was Steve Carcerano who first saw Kathleen in the bathtub. Yet the prosecution didn't call him as a witness.

In the days and weeks after Stacy disappeared, Steve Carcerano was interviewed almost every day by the national media. He was definitely what I would call a Drew Peterson apologist. As far as he was concerned, DP could do no wrong. A very strange man. He was with DP almost every day and would talk to the media, always parroting what DP said......Stacy left DP for another man. Steve was DP's best buddy, and from what I understand, stuck by him up until DP's arrest.

If Kathleen felt that the neighbors were spying on her.......my guess is that she was thinking of Steve Carcerano, not the Pontarellis. I think Steve was DP's eyes and ears in the neighborhood. He lived within a couple of houses of Kathleen's house.

Since Steve Carcerano was one of the three adults that went into Kathleen's house the night she was found, and was the first to see her in the tub, and the prosecution didn't have him as a witness, I think he may be on the defense witness list.
 
I don't mean to be picky, but do we have confirmation the blood which trickled down the drain was not diluted? I seem to recall reading discussion about blood on KS's face that would have been washed away if there were water in the tub. Non existance of a ring around the tub which should have been evident if the blood mixed with bath water.

Did any scientific expert(s) test the blood or was it a visual determination the blood was not diluted with water? (Not accusing any member) or was the blood not being diluted speculation that might have morphed into fact?
 
Leila said:
My best guess is that the prosecution will likely finish their case in chief late this week or early next week.

I don't think the defense has publicly released a list of potential witnesses.

I've been thinking about who the defense might call as witnesses other than the likelihood of a few expert witnesses who will be paid for their testimony.

One thing I have noticed is that there's one witness who hasn't testified. The night Kathleen's body was found, there were three adult neighbors who went into Kathleen's house..................Tom and Mary Pontarelli, and Steve Carcerano. In fact, it was Steve Carcerano who first saw Kathleen in the bathtub. Yet the prosecution didn't call him as a witness.

In the days and weeks after Stacy disappeared, Steve Carcerano was interviewed almost every day by the national media. He was definitely what I would call a Drew Peterson apologist. As far as he was concerned, DP could do no wrong. A very strange man. He was with DP almost every day and would talk to the media, always parroting what DP said......Stacy left DP for another man. Steve was DP's best buddy, and from what I understand, stuck by him up until DP's arrest.

If Kathleen felt that the neighbors were spying on her.......my guess is that she was thinking of Steve Carcerano, not the Pontarellis. I think Steve was DP's eyes and ears in the neighborhood. He lived within a couple of houses of Kathleen's house.

Since Steve Carcerano was one of the three adults that went into Kathleen's house the night she was found, and was the first to see her in the tub, and the prosecution didn't have him as a witness, I think he may be on the defense witness list.
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Oh, looky looky. Just found this..... not sure if it is already posted.

http://www.dupagemugshots.com/Mugshots/Steven_carcerano/4120-993217a3dbee722b78c2f7a44339af24

Booked 03/28/2012 One Steve Carcerano for domestic battery. Not sure about the reliability of the link.... I haven't cross checked yet, but if this is true it would probably mean Steve Carcerano's credibility as a witness in this case is shot. No pun intented.
 
Cross checking. Yep same guy. Battery against his brother. At least he's beating up guys instead of the gals like DP.

The man who found Drew Peterson's third wife drowned in her dry bathtub was arrested by the Naperville police in connection with battering his brother.
Steve Carcerano, 44, of Bolingbrook was taken into custody March 27 ....

http://shorewood-il.patch.com/articles/peterson-pal-picked-up-by-naperville-police
 
Cubby said:
Cross checking. Yep same guy. Battery against his brother. At least he's beating up guys instead of the gals like DP.

The man who found Drew Peterson's third wife drowned in her dry bathtub was arrested by the Naperville police in connection with battering his brother.
Steve Carcerano, 44, of Bolingbrook was taken into custody March 27 ....

http://shorewood-il.patch.com/articles/peterson-pal-picked-up-by-naperville-police
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I am kind of relieved. Because maybe that will keep him off the stand for the defense as well. It seems like he would say anything they wanted him to, since he loved DP so much.
 
A link between the two cases could emerge in court with the expected testimony of crime scene investigator Robert Deel. Prosecutors say Deel botched the investigation into Savio's drowning death. Deel, who already testified at the Peterson trial, could take the stand in the Vaughn case to say he believes the four deaths could have been a murder-suicide committed by Vaughn's wife as the defense maintains.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...er-vaughn-trial-0819-20120820,0,4843773.story


Slam by the Trib regarding Deel's 'stellar' investigative work?
 
It is three am and I am doing this! Yes, it hits my top of shin area. Wonder if those measurements were done by the prosecutor! The drawings looked like mid shin, but does make me think this is possibility that I wish was presented to jury idf indeed they lined up. This measurement would be easy for them to do.

Oh, but I forgot, no invewtigating on this case :banghead: they could do this after the fact.

MrsPC said:
this may sound silly - but go stand next to your toilet & see where the rim of the toilet bowl might bruise your legs if pushed against the toilet while standing....

I tried it at my house and it's just below the knees - exactly where Savio's bruises were.
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Cubby said:
A link between the two cases could emerge in court with the expected testimony of crime scene investigator Robert Deel. Prosecutors say Deel botched the investigation into Savio's drowning death. Deel, who already testified at the Peterson trial, could take the stand in the Vaughn case to say he believes the four deaths could have been a murder-suicide committed by Vaughn's wife as the defense maintains.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...er-vaughn-trial-0819-20120820,0,4843773.story


Slam by the Trib regarding Deel's 'stellar' investigative work?
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Ok, I guess it wasn't a slam. (I really thought the Trib was getting a poke in at Deel there. ) I hadn't recalled reading the following:

Sgt. Robert Deel, who is no longer a crime scene investigator after prosecutors faulted his work on another murder case, testified that the evidence convinced him that Vaughn's wife might have shot her husband and children before killing herself, the former defense team member said.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...thtub-christopher-vaughn-private-investigator
 
Just a little bit about the Illinois State Police. I thought this was of interest, because I'm still a bit baffled about why they, and not another agency, were called to investigate Kathleen's death in the first place.

http://www.isp.state.il.us/aboutisp/history.cfm


From the above link:

On June 24, 1921, the 52nd General Assembly of the State of Illinois authorized the Department of Public Works and Buildings to hire a "sufficient number of State Highway Patrol Officers to enforce the provisions of the Motor Vehicle Laws."

The purpose of the ISP is to patrol the highway system throughout Illinois.
 
Cubby said:
Just a little bit about the Illinois State Police. I thought this was of interest, because I'm still a bit baffled about why they, and not another agency, were called to investigate Kathleen's death in the first place.

http://www.isp.state.il.us/aboutisp/history.cfm


From the above link:

On June 24, 1921, the 52nd General Assembly of the State of Illinois authorized the Department of Public Works and Buildings to hire a "sufficient number of State Highway Patrol Officers to enforce the provisions of the Motor Vehicle Laws."

The purpose of the ISP is to patrol the highway system throughout Illinois.
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I believe it was because she was the recent ex-wife of a local police officer. It may be standard procedures for the local police to do that if there is ever a case involving one of their own. jmo
 
prosecution were correct that this was a homicide that there are alternative suspects beside Mr. Peterson.
I wonder how effective the testimony will be from their "experts"
about the cause of death. I was disappointed in the prosecutions autopsy analysis. I just didn't think that it was compelling enough....not enough explanation or detail. I wonder if there will be another autopsy expert for the prosecution too.

QUOTE=Wishbone;8280140]I don't even know if DT is going to implicate anyone else or not but won't be surprised if they do if they get off their accident theory......[/QUOTE]
 
LambChop said:
I believe it was because she was the recent ex-wife of a local police officer. It may be standard procedures for the local police to do that if there is ever a case involving one of their own. jmo
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I asked my step dad about this, he's retired LE and retired as chief of police (within IL, but not in Will). He said there is no protocal in Illinois requiring an investigation be handled outside the department, nor is there a specific agency or heirarchy of which outside agency should be contacted if an outside agency is sought.


I'm just curious why they chose the ISP, as opposed to Will county or requesting Cook County.... or what other outside agency they could have chosen, when they apparently could have chosen any.
 
Tugela said:
It wouldn't have been allowed if the hearsay had been inadmissable (as it normally is). When they changed the law to allow the hearsay, the flip side of that was to open the door for impeachment. You can't have one without the other. And since she is dead, the only way to do that would be to examine past statements. It is exactly the same as if the witness was alive, except in this case it would be limited to what statements made previously.

What the defence would be looking at is, if she told these people these things, did she in the past make other accusations that were either not true or were dubious, or were contested. In other words the question would be what sort of credibility should be given to these things she alledgedly said to these people (their credibility in claiming to have heard these things is unrelated).

If you have an issue with it, blame the law makers who changed the law for this case.
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Thanks for explaining this so even I can understand it. :seeya:
 
Cubby said:
I asked my step dad about this, he's retired LE and retired as chief of police (within IL, but not in Will). He said there is no protocal in Illinois requiring an investigation be handled outside the department, nor is there a specific agency or heirarchy of which outside agency should be contacted if an outside agency is sought.


I'm just curious why they chose the ISP, as opposed to Will county or requesting Cook County.... or what other outside agency they could have chosen, when they apparently could have chosen any.
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Maybe because the Chief knew DP very well and did want anything to come back on them. I have a feeling that someone suspected there was fool play and just did not want this to come back on the local police department. Plus the State Police may not have the experience in handling these types of crimes where a detective from another police department might have picked up the signs right away. Just a thought, nothing to back it up. But I know the town in Connecticut where I lived if you had an issue with the locals you called the State Police. jmo
 
Leila said:
DP may think he got away with the perfect murder, but he was very sloppy in the way he carried out the crime. If there had been a good investigator on this case initially, one who would ask the tough questions:

1. where are her clothes?
2. what hit her head to cause that 2-inch gash?
3. how could the blood pool undiluted in tub if there had been water in it?
4. why did Kathleen have bruises on both her back and front?

There's many things in this case that are questionable, and a good investigator should have noticed all these things.
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:seeya:

Resp Snipped and RBBM: This is a great point ... and I agree, a good investigator should have noticed all of the points you listed.

Also, reading your post made me think of something : The Toilet

Now, this is probably a very long shot ... and maybe I watch too many forensic type shows ... but if we have someone experienced in this area of forensics please 'chime in' ...


It has been mentioned that it is possible that DP drowned Kathleen in the toilet ...

I am wondering IF it is possible that some sort of forensic testing could have been done when Kathleen was found to determine IF she had drowned in the toilet -- like IF they could have tested the water found in or on her for "toilet bowl water" ... KWIM ?

While "toilet bowl" water may look and appear to be "clean" -- if forensically tested, I am going to "guess" that there would be other things that would show up in toilet bowl water : like "toilet bowl cleaner" and "human waste elements" "bacteria" ... maybe "some other things" that one might put in a toilet ...

I am sorry if this might sound a little gross ... but JMO, no matter how clean the toilet water is, there may be "something" -- "anything" -- that might have shown up IF they had tested the water IN and/or ON her [like test her hair] to see if there were "TRACES" of something that you would NOT find in "bath water" ...

I hope this made sense ... maybe it is far fetched ... but they have come a long with forensic testing ...

Maybe the next time someone "sucpiciously drowns" in the bathtub, LE will test the water found IN or ON the victim -- just to make sure that the person did drown in the tub and was NOT drowned in the toilet ...

Have a nice day everyone ...

:moo:
 
LambChop said:
I believe it was because she was the recent ex-wife of a local police officer. It may be standard procedures for the local police to do that if there is ever a case involving one of their own. jmo
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 Originally Posted by Cubby [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8281035#post8281035"]
viewpost.gif
[/ame]
Just a little bit about the Illinois State Police. I thought this was of interest, because I'm still a bit baffled about why they, and not another agency, were called to investigate Kathleen's death in the first place.

http://www.isp.state.il.us/aboutisp/history.cfm


From the above link:

On June 24, 1921, the 52nd General Assembly of the State of Illinois authorized the Department of Public Works and Buildings to hire a "sufficient number of State Highway Patrol Officers to enforce the provisions of the Motor Vehicle Laws"

The purpose of the ISP is to patrol the highway system throughout Illinois.


Well, here comes the "Here's how we do it in North Carolina," so please forgive. Just giving a different perspective...

We have the same deal in NC -- Our State Highway Patrol is mainly charged with enforcing Motor Vehicle Laws as well -- all the typical infractions, and unsafe areas on the roadways. They are not an investigative arm of the State of NC for home accidents or for homicides not related to roadways. And even if it is a roadway homicide (death by vehicle, etc.), the city or county in which it occurs is the investigative body who is in charge of all phases of that type thing.

We have a State Bureau of Investigation (SBI) that would be used for such an investigation of the sort that occurred at the Peterson house -- involving a member of the usual LE who would be on the case... and often they are called in by the city or county LE if circumstances (determined by I-have-no-idea) warrant.

Further, even if it looks like a bathtub or stairway, etc., fall/accident, investigators come and tape off whatever necessary, take control of the scene/area and bar entry by ANYONE other than LE at least until it is officially deemed an accident...


 
borndem said:
Originally Posted by Cubby
Just a little bit about the Illinois State Police. I thought this was of interest, because I'm still a bit baffled about why they, and not another agency, were called to investigate Kathleen's death in the first place.

http://www.isp.state.il.us/aboutisp/history.cfm


From the above link:

On June 24, 1921, the 52nd General Assembly of the State of Illinois authorized the Department of Public Works and Buildings to hire a "sufficient number of State Highway Patrol Officers to enforce the provisions of the Motor Vehicle Laws"

The purpose of the ISP is to patrol the highway system throughout Illinois.


Well, here comes the "Here's how we do it in North Carolina," so please forgive. Just giving a different perspective...

We have the same deal in NC -- Our State Highway Patrol is mainly charged with enforcing Motor Vehicle Laws as well -- all the typical infractions, and unsafe areas on the roadways. They are not an investigative arm of the State of NC for home accidents or for homicides not related to roadways. And even if it is a roadway homicide (death by vehicle, etc.), the city or county in which it occurs is the investigative body who is in charge of all phases of that type thing.

We have a State Bureau of Investigation (SBI) that would be used for such an investigation of the sort that occurred at the Peterson house -- involving a member of the usual LE who would be on the case... and often they are called in by the city or county LE if circumstances (determined by I-have-no-idea) warrant.

Further, even if it looks like a bathtub or stairway, etc., fall/accident, investigators come and tape off whatever necessary, take control of the scene/area and bar entry by ANYONE other than LE at least until it is officially deemed an accident...
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Thank you, borndem. A quick google search indicates the Illinois Bureau of Investigation merged into the ISP sometime in the 70's. Why? IDK.

The ISP really does not appear to be set up to handle the type of investigation Kathleen's death required. IMO, Bolingbrook PD should have known this. I guess I am just frustrated and looking for an answer as to how not just one, but two different LE agencies effed up this case like they did, GRRRR! :maddening:
 
I have seen some speculation that the defense team could point the finger at the teenage neighbor (at the time) and KS's BF. Well, I also fully expect them to point the finger at Stacy Peterson. I think I had read that she and KS had got into a verbal spat at least one time.

There is going to be a lot of terrible finger pointing when Brodsky's team presents their case. That courtroom is going to explode with emotion.

I don't think the prosecution will be done with their case by then, but I will be there this week for the afternoon session on Wednesday and the morning session on Thursday.

Edit: I only bring this up as even though the defense team says she "drowned", once it is proven she was murdered, they will point fingers at everyone else.
 
Livingthedream said:
I have seen some speculation that the defense team could point the finger at the teenage neighbor (at the time) and KS's BF. Well, I also fully expect them to point the finger at Stacy Peterson. I think I had read that she and KS had got into a verbal spat at least one time.
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Snipped and BBM: In a way, I hope the defense team does bring up Stacy because it will "backfire" on them !

The DT has been "whining like babies" to keep Stacy's name out of this trial, so I hope they "slip up" and do something stupid like that ... LOL !

:waitasec: Well, that probably won't happen and of course, the DT's "friend", the "judge", will give them whatever they want ...

Oh, and IF they point the finger at the "teenage neighbor", that is LOW and a true sign of desperation by DP and his DT !

:moo:
 
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