"An American Murder Mystery" - Discovery ID 3 night series - 04.09 .- 11. 2017

Intermezzo said:

I added numbers above to your post so I could answer, lol

1) No. She was only charged with fraud/theft that she committed again Amy H. because she pressed charges. Cindy did not nor did the grandparents, probably because Cindy begged them not to.
2)I can't say for certain, AZLawyer would be able to...but my guess is Yes.
3) Tough Love, you did the right thing, IMO
4)NO family member ever pressed charges, she stole from Lee as well, I don't think anyone in her immediate family was exempt from her stealing from them, then she branched out to grandparents and close friends.
5)Amy H did press charges and that is why CA became FCA (Felon)
6)I agree.

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Thank you again for answering me!
It amazes me how much she got away with! I bet she never heard the word no in her life and if she did it was always WW3.
Thank you so much for your support! It was a really hard choice but she needed to learn the hard way. I think the strip search and being thrown in a cell was her eye opener. Not to mention when we all got to the jail she still had to deal with our wrath. It wasn't pretty at all!
Also thank you for explaining what the F in FCA was! I was thinking it stood for a curse word!!!! :laughing:

heidisams said:

You did a great job PositiveLight. eace: .... Below bold is your quote:

"Can you imagine in the Florida heat how bad the smell must have been? I wonder if she had became paranoid someone was going to smell it too before she could dump the body or she was trying to frame her parents by dumping her so close to the home. Actually the more I think about it the more I feel she was trying to frame them all along. I don't think the place she dumped her was by accident. I actually think if GA or CA was involved they would have given her a more proper type of burial than tossing her to elements and animals to ravage. I think she put that bag of trash in the car (did it even exist for certain?) to try and explain away the smell. Again premeditation. Everything she did was calculated."

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Fca was definitely trying to cover her tracks about the smell and started to put the blame on ga and squirrels even before she abandoned the car at Amscot... Casey told Amy on 06/25 that there was a horrible smell in her car (under engine) and she couldn't figure out what it was. Casey said she thinks her dad ran over something with her car when he borrowed it (records show fca had the car, she didn't see ga & ca that day, and that she was telling them she was in Tampa). Then on the 27th, the very day she leaves the car, while she's actually standing next to it waiting for tl to pick her up, she tells AH that whatever the dead thing was in her car was pretty dead. Amy said fca was suggesting her dad ran over a squirrel and he was going to take care of it... And right afterwards, fca texts: "There was definitely part of a dead animal plastered to the frame of my car"

And I'm so sorry to hear about your daughter, it sounds like you are one good momma though. Thx for sharing that with us...

All jmo.

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Thank you for your sweet words.I don't mind sharing when it can help understand the dynamics of this type of family.
People like Casey are very hard to handle. They destroy anyone and everyone in their path.
Does anyone else notice that from the get go, Casey was blaming her dad for every little thing?

StretchWest said:

I feel like George lying about Casey/Caylee leaving at 12:50 doesn't get enough traction but I digress.

I suppose my issue is that in some instances its implied that Casey was planning this for months and in others she's portrayed as making it up as she goes along often within the same argument. It just seems incongruous. The searches in March are either relevant or they're not.

As far as Casey being too narcissistic to contemplate suicide, there's a long list of narcissists who have committed that act. I mean, Aaron Hernandez just the other day. Narcissism lends itself to feeling sorry for oneself. I suppose that the main reason I think foolproof suffocation is related to suicide is because iirc the link that was clicked was suicide related. And you really just gotta go where the evidence leads ya.

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Excellent point about Aaron Hernandez. I can't argue with that.

As for the rest of your post, two months really isn't a very long time.

I think the searches were relevant because it was an idea she was toying around with. However, I think she needed a catalyst to carry it out, such as her mother yelling at her for stealing from her grandfather again and threatening to kick her out and get custody of Caylee.

I also think that she underestimated the skills of the police and how complicated it is to kill someone and get rid of their body without leaving any evidence and she overestimated her own intelligence. That's where the "making it up as she goes along" comes in. She had to rapidly change her story around because she realized that it didn't make sense to anyone with a brain and an ounce of common sense. So, IMO her apparent lack of preparedness is just a symptom of her stupidity and narcissism and not a sign that a terrible accident occurred.

And if Casey is an eraser killer (which I think she meets the criteria for), it also explains more of her behavior.


http://marileestrong.blogspot.com/2008/04/what-makes-eraser-killers-different.html

StretchWest said:

I feel like George lying about Casey/Caylee leaving at 12:50 doesn't get enough traction but I digress.

I suppose my issue is that in some instances its implied that Casey was planning this for months and in others she's portrayed as making it up as she goes along often within the same argument. It just seems incongruous. The searches in March are either relevant or they're not.

As far as Casey being too narcissistic to contemplate suicide, there's a long list of narcissists who have committed that act. I mean, Aaron Hernandez just the other day. Narcissism lends itself to feeling sorry for oneself. I suppose that the main reason I think foolproof suffocation is related to suicide is because iirc the link that was clicked was suicide related. And you really just gotta go where the evidence leads ya.

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They are relevant, but not so much if you get so caught up with it you aren't able to see the importance of everything else... it's about her frame of mind... You said the searches in March are either relevant or they're not... depends on what you're talking about, relevant to how fca actually killed her? No... I think you will find that evidence in the months just before, and surrounding, the crime... Relevant to the monster that fca is and what's she's capable of, yes... But, it all tells a story, so it's all relevant...

Was ga lying about the 12:50p time, or did he get confused on what day he saw them leave?... He was adamant about the food network show he was watching being on from 12p-1p that day, that's how he knew the time, etc....however it didn't play on the 16th...The evidence of those communications I've been telling you you should review shows she didn't leave at 12:50p, etc... And, remember it was also a month later he told them this, and at the time they were talking about the 9th, not the 16th.... So, many chalk it up to confusion...

Fca might have clicked on a site that talked about suicide, but she certainly didn't search for it....huge distinction... You say you're following the evidence, but you're leaping right over the most important part.... Have you read venturing into the pro-suicide pit or know what it' s about?

All jmo.

jkly said:

Excellent point about Aaron Hernandez. I can't argue with that.

As for the rest of your post, two months really isn't a very long time.

I think the searches were relevant because it was an idea she was toying around with. However, I think she needed a catalyst to carry it out, such as her mother yelling at her for stealing from her grandfather again and threatening to kick her out and get custody of Caylee.

I also think that she underestimated the skills of the police and how complicated it is to kill someone and get rid of their body without leaving any evidence and she overestimated her own intelligence. That's where the "making it up as she goes along" comes in. She had to rapidly change her story around because she realized that it didn't make sense to anyone with a brain and an ounce of common sense. So, IMO her apparent lack of preparedness is just a symptom of her stupidity and narcissism and not a sign that a terrible accident occurred.

And if Casey is an eraser killer (which I think she meets the criteria for), it also explains more of her behavior.


http://marileestrong.blogspot.com/2008/04/what-makes-eraser-killers-different.html

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BBM

This....and up until this point in her life, the girl was never really challenged or called out for this behavior, so she learned she could do this without consequences.... She probably did think she was brilliant. Her friends even knew this about her, but they just described it as fca being fca... She ditched friend groups often, etc, or as soon as they suspected shade.... Yah, I think she was probably shocked when she couldn't shake those investigators off her back. I really think the girl thought that wacky witness statement she gave would be the last she ever saw of them...

We see the exact same behavior now in the 30 yr old fca... she is still a child, lying, and trying to manipulate if she doesn't get her way, etc... I think she gave those interviews thinking if they don't go her way or she doesn't like the vibe she could slap them with some confidentiality agreement, subpoena issues, contract violation, and that would be the end of it... She hasn't changed one bit, not at all...

All jmo.

PositiveLight said:

Thank you again for answering me!
It amazes me how much she got away with! I bet she never heard the word no in her life and if she did it was always WW3.
Thank you so much for your support! It was a really hard choice but she needed to learn the hard way. I think the strip search and being thrown in a cell was her eye opener. Not to mention when we all got to the jail she still had to deal with our wrath. It wasn't pretty at all!
Also thank you for explaining what the F in FCA was! I was thinking it stood for a curse word!!!! :laughing:

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BBM

Well.... :shush: :lipssealed: :whistle:

All jmo.

PositiveLight said:

Thank you for your sweet words.I don't mind sharing when it can help understand the dynamics of this type of family.
People like Casey are very hard to handle. They destroy anyone and everyone in their path.
Does anyone else notice that from the get go, Casey was blaming her dad for every little thing?

Click to expand...

BBM
Yes.

IMO, George was the scapegoat, the easier target.
In an interview or something, I remember Lee mentioning how the family would make fun of George, they ridiculed him, spoke down to him. ( I will try to find the link to that.)
Cindy was the provider, she had the career and stable job . She was the head of the family according to Lee's deposition
Here is a link to Lee's deposition, he speaks of this starting at page 17
http://caseyanthonyisinnocent.com/w.../LEE-ANTHONY-STATE-DEPO-485-pages-7-30-09.pdf
(sorry about the website for the link, it's the only one I found with the transcript, I can't bear to watch some of the depositions and interviews it on You tube anymore.)


FCA, targeted a few other people as well including ex-fiance (the man she first stated was Caylee's father) Jesse Grund. He took a polygraph test and was ruled out as a suspect.

FCA also accused her brother Lee of sexual abuse as well, Baez mentioned it briefly in his opening statement, but his focus was on George.
Of course, no one knew who Caylee's father was, and FCA had accused her father and brother of sexual molestation, paternity tests run proved that neither George nor Lee was the father of Caylee.

StretchWest said:

I feel like George lying about Casey/Caylee leaving at 12:50 doesn't get enough traction but I digress.

I suppose my issue is that in some instances its implied that Casey was planning this for months and in others she's portrayed as making it up as she goes along often within the same argument. It just seems incongruous. The searches in March are either relevant or they're not.

As far as Casey being too narcissistic to contemplate suicide, there's a long list of narcissists who have committed that act. I mean, Aaron Hernandez just the other day. Narcissism lends itself to feeling sorry for oneself. I suppose that the main reason I think foolproof suffocation is related to suicide is because iirc the link that was clicked was suicide related. And you really just gotta go where the evidence leads ya.

Click to expand...

I do believe the events and computer searchers in March are important

I do believe there were argument(s) or confrontation(s) with Cindy in March regarding stealing money, using Cindy's credit cards, caring for Caylee, FCA wanting to go out and party etc. that prompted FCA to conduct those searches,

Cindy tried to paint a happy, loving, friendly relationship with FCA " my daughter is my best friend" when IMO it seemed more of an adversarial relationship.

Now the question that has always been on my mind regarding the March computer searches is not only WHY she conducted those searches but WHO did she have in mind when conduction those searches? Was it it do away with Caylee or Cindy or George or both her parents?

But that is just one of many theories that cross my mind.

jkly said:

Excellent point about Aaron Hernandez. I can't argue with that.

As for the rest of your post, two months really isn't a very long time.

I think the searches were relevant because it was an idea she was toying around with. However, I think she needed a catalyst to carry it out, such as her mother yelling at her for stealing from her grandfather again and threatening to kick her out and get custody of Caylee.

I also think that she underestimated the skills of the police and how complicated it is to kill someone and get rid of their body without leaving any evidence and she overestimated her own intelligence. That's where the "making it up as she goes along" comes in. She had to rapidly change her story around because she realized that it didn't make sense to anyone with a brain and an ounce of common sense. So, IMO her apparent lack of preparedness is just a symptom of her stupidity and narcissism and not a sign that a terrible accident occurred.

And if Casey is an eraser killer (which I think she meets the criteria for), it also explains more of her behavior.


http://marileestrong.blogspot.com/2008/04/what-makes-eraser-killers-different.html

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BBM
I agree. And just WHO was she thinking of when she was toying around with this idea? 1 or both of her parents? perhaps.

If we look at the messages FCA sent saying her parents were moving out and they were giving her the house to live in with Caylee, a different theory appears. Maybe it was the parents she wanted to do away with but something changed IMO beginning with Fathers Day evening, June 15 and it was Caylee who paid the ultimate price.

FCA went as far as convincing Amy H to believe she would be moving in with FCA and Caylee, Amy even went ahead and did a change of address and Cindy asked FCA about the Change of Address card that arrived in the mall for Amy. FCA's excuse was that Amy wanted a package sent to their address, thinking Cindy would believe it, which she didn't but FCA didn't elaborate further and left Cindy confused over it.

Just another theory.

Intermezzo said:

BBM
Yes.

IMO, George was the scapegoat, the easier target.
In an interview or something, I remember Lee mentioning how the family would make fun of George, they ridiculed him, spoke down to him. ( I will try to find the link to that.)
Cindy was the provider, she had the career and stable job . She was the head of the family according to Lee's deposition
Here is a link to Lee's deposition, he speaks of this starting at page 17
http://caseyanthonyisinnocent.com/w.../LEE-ANTHONY-STATE-DEPO-485-pages-7-30-09.pdf
(sorry about the website for the link, it's the only one I found with the transcript, I can't bear to watch some of the depositions and interviews it on You tube anymore.)


FCA, targeted a few other people as well including ex-fiance (the man she first stated was Caylee's father) Jesse Grund. He took a polygraph test and was ruled out as a suspect.

FCA also accused her brother Lee of sexual abuse as well, Baez mentioned it briefly in his opening statement, but his focus was on George.
Of course, no one knew who Caylee's father was, and FCA had accused her father and brother of sexual molestation, paternity tests run proved that neither George nor Lee was the father of Caylee.

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:yeahthat:

And if I could add just one, very important, detail why (I think) ga was the ultimate scapegoat (at trial, and still today)... in the end he fit best. Clearly, fca was scrambling to find someone else to pin it on (listed above...jesse, lee, dad - she didn't care who - the list goes on, mom, zanny, kronk, etc).... But, what it came down to is who fit the evidence best. Who could be most easily woven in.... In the end, once all the evidence was in, it became clear to the defense that it had to be someone from inside the home (ga, ca, or even lee), someone else who had access to the duct tape (ga used it at the search), the canvas laundry bag, the blanket, the computer (they believed the foolproof suffocation search was coming in), the car (she'd already implicated him w/ the squirrel story), someone else there on the 16th, etc... At this point they had to dump zanny, kronk, jesse, etc... And, unfortunately for ga, he was the choice....

All jmo.

heidisams said:

:yeahthat:

And if I could add just one, very important, detail why (I think) ga was the ultimate scapegoat (at trial, and still today)... in the end he fit best. Clearly, fca was scrambling to find someone else to pin it on (listed above...jesse, lee, dad - she didn't care who - the list goes on, mom, zanny, kronk, etc).... But, what it came down to is who fit the evidence best. Who could be most easily woven in.... In the end, once all the evidence was in, it became clear to the defense that it had to be someone from inside the home (ga, ca, or even lee), someone else who had access to the duct tape (ga used it at the search), the canvas laundry bag, the blanket, the computer (they believed the foolproof suffocation search was coming in), the car (she'd already implicated him w/ the squirrel story), someone else there on the 16th, etc... At this point they had to dump zanny, kronk, jesse, etc... And, unfortunately for ga, he was the choice....

All jmo.

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Love your addition to my post!

Totally agree. George FIT the story the best.

If I remember correctly we all thought there was a time that FCA/Baez may go after Jesse. Remember when she took a shower at Jesse's apartment during the time current boyfriend TonyL was in NY?

That was odd and we had such a discussion over it. She was with Amy H the day before and slept over at her apartment.
The next morning she calls Jesse and asks if she can take a shower at his place before she goes "to work".
He allowed it. But When she arrived Jesse remarked that she didn't look like she was in need of a shower. she stayed with him for a few hours and watched TV before going to "work"
She again spent that night at Amy and Ricardo's apartment.

I don't remember now, but was the Prosecution allowed to enter into evidence the MySpace entries from FCA's Diary of Days and Cindy's post about My Caylee is Missing? I have a strong feeling they weren't allowed to but I don't remember for certain. This sure would not have shown a harmonious relationship between the 2 women

I don't remember is if was written before or after Cindy wrote her message on MySpace which she later deleted

FCA
"On the worst of worst days, remember the words spoken
Trust no one, only yourself.
With great power, comes great consequence.
What is given can be taken away.
Everyone Lies.
Everyone Dies."

July 3 Cindy
Subject: My Caylee is missing
Current mood: Distraught

"She came into my life unexspectedly, just as she has left me.
This precious little angel from above gave me strength and unconditional love.
Now she is gone and I don’t know why. All I am guilty of is loving her and providing her a safe home.
Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankfull for all of the love and support given to her.
A mother’s love is deep, however there are limits when one is betrayed by the one she loved and trusted the most.
A daughter comes to her mother for support when she is pregnant, the mother says without hesitation it will be ok. And it was.
But then the lies and betrayal began. First it seemed harmless, ah, love is blind.
A mother will look for the good in her child and give them a chance to change.
This mother gave chance after chance for her daughter to change, but instead more lies more betrayal.
What does the mother get for giving her daughter all of these chances? A broken heart.
The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills, etc.
Instead tells her friends that her mother is controlling her life and she needs her space. No money, no future. Where did she go? Who is now watching out for the little angel?"

Intermezzo said:

Love your addition to my post!

Totally agree. George FIT the story the best.

If I remember correctly we all thought there was a time that FCA/Baez may go after Jesse. Remember when she took a shower at Jesse's apartment during the time current boyfriend TonyL was in NY?

That was odd and we had such a discussion over it. She was with Amy H the day before and slept over at her apartment.
The next morning she calls Jesse and asks if she can take a shower at his place before she goes "to work".
He allowed it. But When she arrived Jesse remarked that she didn't look like she was in need of a shower. she stayed with him for a few hours and watched TV before going to "work"
She again spent that night at Amy and Ricardo's apartment.

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And remember that 4a-5a visit she made to the area of Caylee's remains in tl's jeep the following day (wee hrs of the following day)? We assumed through cell pings it was the dump sight, not ga & ca's for obvious reasons... hmm.... Makes you wonder what they might've found had it not taken so long to find her..... That all just creeped me out... Didn't she call Ryan P. while she was there? And something about her being emotional? Do you remember that?

And she was defintely trying to implicate him following her arrest, telling lee emphatically not to trust him when he went over the list of who he can/can't trust and needs to be "invesigated" further by him....and again during a visit with ca when she dramatically said not to trust him and she repeated it adding that she "very calmly" wanted them not to trust him... Her intentions were obvious, and ca ran with it...

All jmo.

heidisams said:

And remember that 4a-5a visit she made to the area of Caylee's remains in tl's jeep the following day (wee hrs of the following day)? We assumed through cell pings it was the dump sight, not ga & ca's for obvious reasons... hmm.... Makes you wonder what they might've found had it not taken so long to find her..... That all just creeped me out... Didn't she call Ryan P. while she was there? And something about her being emotional? Do you remember that?

And she was defintely trying to implicate him following her arrest, telling lee emphatically not to trust him when he went over the list of who he can/can't trust and needs to be "invesigated" further by him....and again during a visit with ca when she dramatically said not to trust him and she repeated it adding that she "very calmly" wanted them not to trust him... Her intentions were obvious, and ca ran with it...

All jmo.

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I barely remember the early AM visit to the area of Suburban Dr,
BBM
Yes! The emotional part was when she was on the phone with TonyL, during the time he was in NYC, and he said he may have to stay or go back to NYC to work so he can make money to pay for school. He said she became very emotional/upset over his statement and he was startled or surprised at her possessiveness


Jesse went on The Today show and begged her to tell the truth. He wasn't buying her BS and was pleading with the girl he once was engaged to to tell the truth.
She probably turned on him shortly after that.
“Casey, tell the truth. This isn’t about you anymore. This is about Caylee,” Grund said on Today, speaking directly to his ex-girlfriend. “Stop dragging people’s lives through this. Stop destroying people’s lives and tell the truth. What happened to Caylee?”


IMO, Jesse treated her well, he not only loved Caylee but he had loved her enough to want to marry her. And he still stayed in FCA's life after they broke off their engagement. She would keep in contact with him, seek him out, stay on friendly terms yet she turns on a guy who had stood by her and supported her in the past

Intermezzo said:

I barely remember the early AM visit to the area of Suburban Dr,
BBM
Yes! The emotional part was when she was on the phone with TonyL, during the time he was in NYC, and he said he may have to stay or go back to NYC to work so he can make money to pay for school. He said she became very emotional/upset over his statement and he was startled or surprised at her possessiveness


Jesse went on The Today show and begged her to tell the truth. He wasn't buying her BS and was pleading with the girl he once was engaged to to tell the truth.
She probably turned on him shortly after that.
“Casey, tell the truth. This isn’t about you anymore. This is about Caylee,” Grund said on Today, speaking directly to his ex-girlfriend. “Stop dragging people’s lives through this. Stop destroying people’s lives and tell the truth. What happened to Caylee?”


IMO, Jesse treated her well, he not only loved Caylee but he had loved her enough to want to marry her. And he still stayed in FCA's life after they broke off their engagement. She would keep in contact with him, seek him out, stay on friendly terms yet she turns on a guy who had stood by her and supported her in the past

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BBM

Here's the thread where it's discussed: Casey Returned to the Disposal Site...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Disposal-Site-Theories&p=4927924#post4927924

All jmo.

heidisams said:

BBM

Here's the thread where it's discussed: Casey Returned to the Disposal Site...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Disposal-Site-Theories&p=4927924#post4927924

All jmo.

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Thanks for the reminder and the link
started reading it quickly.....one of our great threads...heck I even posted once or twice..
We even discussed her showering at Jesse's, if Cindy would have noticed the Pontiac parked at Amscot, her going to Tony's, Cindy's flurry of phone calls trying to get Caylee back for July 4th party..
oooh so much sleuthing and a great read!

www.acast.com/karasoncrime/caseyanthonysprosecutorreacts

I just wanted to add this interview of Jeff Ashton by Beth Karas (from March '17) so that we have it here on one of our Caylee threads, it sums up all the recent discussions (and threads) we've had so well... and also, I'm a big fan of Beth Karas...she's been a Caylee Warrior. :luv:

I know it's long, but lots of good content... I avoided personal commentary, most is either me paraphrasing or using direct quotes...


● They discuss the AP interviews with fca... In general, Ashton describes them as "more of the same fca, completely self-absorbed, narcissistic, gives lip service to caring about her daughter, but when it comes to actually acting in a way that shows that, it's just not there"... "it's just more of fca's excuses."

● They discuss fca's new story, (how she "honestly" doesn't know what happeded to her daughter) What Ashton finds most shocking about that is, "I can't imagine how any parent in the world, who loved their child, accepting not knowing what happened to them. Under the circumstances that she's described, is just inexplicable to me."

● They discuss their frustration with the AP reporter who interviewed her, and how he didn't appear to do his homework on her, missing opportunities to challenge/dispute her new version/story... Ashton added that he was disappointed he (reporter) didn't bring out the details from her previous statements to mental health doctors when she gave this new account, etc...

● They discuss Perry's most recent thoughts... Ashton disagrees with him, and his whole problem with theories like his is, "none of them explain why you put duct tape on a child's head, if that child is already dead."

● They discuss the foolproof suffocation search...how it was missed, how he wished they had had that, etc...

● They discuss why he (Ashton) believes the case was not overcharged, and why they sought the death penalty (duct tape)... Their theory was suffocation. "The evidence was very, very strong that is how she died."... "Duct tape, duct tape, duct tape"..."that was always the most important issue."

● Ashton talks about the actual photo of the skull, which the jury saw, and he said there was "no question that the duct tape was right there, where the nose and mouth would've been."

● They discuss the jury, Ashton believed they came into it pre-programmed to find her not guilty... They just didn't want to find her guilty...

● They discuss the defense, how they started to plant the sex abuse allegations in the jury's mind during jury selection, and then they talk about it in opening, in great detail, but then nothing else about it. Ashton questions their ethics, and how he believed jbaez knew from the beginning he wasn't going to put her on the stand... Ashton said, "99% of defense lawyers I know would not have made that opening." Jbaez did it just to get the sex abuse story in...Unethical.

● They talk about how most juries would hold it against them, if they don't prove their opening statement (but this jury didn't care). Ashton said "the jury should've followed the judges instructions and ignored it, and I don't think they did."

&#9679; They discuss how fca acted diminutive and teary, with her seat lowered, in front of the jury... And then "bi+<hy" when the jury was out.

&#9679; Karas shared an observation she made of the jury foreman...he lingered behind the other jurors when they were filing out, he was staring at fca, his eyes lingered on her, she (Karas) saw a connection and was not surprised when she later learned he was the foreman and that "he led that jury to an acquittal".... Jeff Ashton is not surprised fca would notice that and exchange glances with him...

&#9679; They discuss her demeanor being one way with jurors present and another way when not, and all her courtroom antics (again, lowered chair, feigning tears, etc)... Ashton says prosecutors "rely on jurors to understand these things [about defendants] well enough to look past that and do their job anyway."

&#9679; They discuss cheney bringing up the possibility of a plea to fca, and how her reaction "was not this diminutive shrinking violet that she tried to portray in the courtroom, at all"...

&#9679; Ashton said, "One amazing thing that I did take from her interview is she actually said, and I can't believe that she is so, so senseless that she doesn't understand how we see this, she said that her only regret from this incident was admitting lying to the police. That was her only regret," he laughs. "Really? You lost your child, and your only regret is that!"

&#9679; They discuss Kronk, and why he wasn't a good witness, etc...

&#9679; They discuss circumstantial evidence, and how it's so misunderstood...and how this jury's main reason for acquittal was because they couldn't say how she died, Ashton explains they didn't need to know how it happened, just that it happened...

&#9679; Ashton on jury, "This jury did-not-want to convict casey anthony, that's the bottom line!"

&#9679; They discuss the shock of the verdict... Karas asks, "did u speak to the jurors afterwards?"...he repies, " NO...no, not at all...I, honestly, I couldn't have at that moment...I wouldn't have been able to have kept a professional decorum at that point"... (((say no more Jeff, say no more...we understand))) :wink:

All jmo...

Intermezzo said:

I do believe the events and computer searchers in March are important

I do believe there were argument(s) or confrontation(s) with Cindy in March regarding stealing money, using Cindy's credit cards, caring for Caylee, FCA wanting to go out and party etc. that prompted FCA to conduct those searches,

Cindy tried to paint a happy, loving, friendly relationship with FCA " my daughter is my best friend" when IMO it seemed more of an adversarial relationship.

Now the question that has always been on my mind regarding the March computer searches is not only WHY she conducted those searches but WHO did she have in mind when conduction those searches? Was it it do away with Caylee or Cindy or George or both her parents?

But that is just one of many theories that cross my mind.

Click to expand...

I've had some recent revelations about the March searches. KC made some nefarious searches on Monday March 17th 2008 in the afternoon close to 2 pm. Then she made other searches on Friday March 21st 2008 again around 2 pm. Well March 19th was her 22nd birthday. What would KC possibly wanted the week of her birthday? To Party? She was dating RM.. so a night without Caylee? I get a suspicious feeling that CA and KC were at odds over what she was allowed to do, did CA put her hands around KC's neck like she does in June? "neck breaking" June 16th she's searching again, this time for suffocation and again around 2-3pm in the afternoon. Was KC feeling like CA was suffocating her so she lashes out and rages at Caylee.

It's right?

George, FCA'S dad, goes to work. FCA googles "foolproof suffication" and within a couple of hours after FCA's search, she's videotaped at Blockbuster minus Caylee. No signs of shock or trauma either. FCA is happy and chummy with Tony in the video and Tony and his friends say she was bubbly. Not the least bit weirded out (you know like a mother whose daughter just drowned or died in a surprising way would have been). According to Tony there was "morning delight" before he went to school and FCA next heads out to her parents house where she goes to the neighbor's to borrow a shovel. FCA's lawyer said during FCA's trial that Caylee died the previous day. So FCA didn't need a shovel to get rid of cane plants that hurt Caylee's feet. But she borrowed a shovel. FCA's stinky car and the trunk stain make it clear where Caylee was. When Caylee's remains are found Caylee's mouth and nose are duct-taped over.

FCA's cell and computer records from June 16th along with the video tape of FCA at Blockbuster's, Tony and his friend's testimony, the neighbor with the shovel's testimony and FCA's stinky car, in my opinion, leave a trail as clear as if FCA had written down the details in a journal. She googled foolproof suffocation. Caylee was found with duct tape over her mouth and nose. The duct tape had to be cut from Caylee's hair. FCA knew the duct tape was never coming off because she'd never be able to explain Caylee with chopped off hair to Cindy. I think Jeff Ashton is spot-on and that duct-tape, duct-tape, duct-tape is how Caylee died. I have believed FCA held her daughter down and duct-taped over her face since the day Caylee was found with duct-tape over her face. Simple enough for FCA to figure out, fast enough to fit FCA's time frame and given FCA's size compared to Caylees, no mess left behind. Arizona Lawyer and JWG's "foolproof suffocation" find was icing on the cake. Any iota of doubt I had...gone.