What's in this cellar room photo?
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Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181- Latest: Caylee Advocate
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CA CA - Charles Alex Benfield, 26, San Diego, Apr 14 2024- Latest: ohemgee.kay925
VespaElf
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Indeed.
Seriously though the impression(*coughspincough*) that was originally given(if my memory serves me)was that the cellar was basically 'disused' and hard to find & that the Ramsey's themselves barely used it etc etc
Apparently that wasn't the case...it was both designated storage(X-mas decorations) as well as "catch all" storage(i.e the suitcase).
Just another item on the long list of things that make you go "HHHhhhmmmm"(imo).
I can sort of kind of see the Barbie doll in the close ups but it would have to be some kind of life-size Barbie if it is a doll, IMO. Otherwise the perspective with the window screen and door would be off.
Maybe it's just some clothes or blankets all scrunched and thrown aside? I just can't tell. See those two cans in the back of the room? I think those would be the size of paint cans if you take the door in persepective.
Maybe it's just some clothes or blankets all scrunched and thrown aside? I just can't tell. See those two cans in the back of the room? I think those would be the size of paint cans if you take the door in persepective.
There were paint cans found in there.
Ames
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I think that it is either a life size barbie (MY SIZE BARBIE), or a Barbie Sleeping bag. My daughter was born a year after JB, she was 5 when JB was killed at the age of 6, and she had (we still have it) a Barbie sleeping bag. It has a huge image of Barbie on the front of it.
Ames, that's thoughtprovoking.
http://www.google.ca/images?hl=en&biw=1148&bih=662&q=barbie%20sleeping%20bag&rlz=1W1TSHC_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi
Does it resemble one on google images?
What year did you buy it?
http://www.google.ca/images?hl=en&biw=1148&bih=662&q=barbie%20sleeping%20bag&rlz=1W1TSHC_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi
Does it resemble one on google images?
What year did you buy it?
Ames
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As a matter of fact, my daughter got hers for Christmas in 96....she was 5 years old. Just looked through my family photos to make sure. Ironic, huh? Hers had a Ballerina Barbie on it, but they come in different designs.
I'm trying to factor the doll into the staging, and why it should ever be there. I can only think of three obvious reasons for a doll to be in that wine-cellar.
1. It is a Christmas gift, unwrapped either by lea or a Ramsey?
2. It was placed there as part of the staging?
3. It is part of the original crime-scene?
Assuming as evidence it has been redacted, then lea do not do this unless they are fairly certain that only the person(s) involved in JonBenet's death would know it was located there.
If this doll is a barbie then having a blood-stained barbie nightgown also in the same room appears too coincidental to me.
This might be the reason why Tom Haney asks Patsy about JonBenet having a favorite bedtime toy e.g. to rule out any doll in the wine-cellar originating from JonBenet's bedroom?
So it seems the doll may not be intended as part of the staging, and if it not a gift then is it part of the original crime-scene was JonBenet playing with it prior to her death?
Trip Demuth gets Patsy to confirm that the Barbie Nightgown was usually stored in a drawer next to the one that contained the longjohns. And that Patsy left one of those drawers open, also Tom Haney asks Patsy if JonBenet took a toy to bed e.g. indirect reference to the doll found in the wine-cellar? Patsy answers Sister Socks. There is reference to a Barbie Doll which is ambiguous as to where it is located, is it the wine-cellar or JonBenet's bedroom?
1998 BPD Patsy Interview
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1. It is a Christmas gift, unwrapped either by lea or a Ramsey?
2. It was placed there as part of the staging?
3. It is part of the original crime-scene?
Assuming as evidence it has been redacted, then lea do not do this unless they are fairly certain that only the person(s) involved in JonBenet's death would know it was located there.
If this doll is a barbie then having a blood-stained barbie nightgown also in the same room appears too coincidental to me.
This might be the reason why Tom Haney asks Patsy about JonBenet having a favorite bedtime toy e.g. to rule out any doll in the wine-cellar originating from JonBenet's bedroom?
So it seems the doll may not be intended as part of the staging, and if it not a gift then is it part of the original crime-scene was JonBenet playing with it prior to her death?
Trip Demuth gets Patsy to confirm that the Barbie Nightgown was usually stored in a drawer next to the one that contained the longjohns. And that Patsy left one of those drawers open, also Tom Haney asks Patsy if JonBenet took a toy to bed e.g. indirect reference to the doll found in the wine-cellar? Patsy answers Sister Socks. There is reference to a Barbie Doll which is ambiguous as to where it is located, is it the wine-cellar or JonBenet's bedroom?
1998 BPD Patsy Interview
.
Patsy: That is a barbie doll under there.
Why didn't Det. Haney follow up on that statement??? This is what makes me mad. I have seen statments made by both John and Patsy that could have been scrutinized by law-enforcement and they just totally blew it.
Why didn't Det. Haney follow up on that statement??? This is what makes me mad. I have seen statments made by both John and Patsy that could have been scrutinized by law-enforcement and they just totally blew it.
I also want to know what they were referring to when then said "still in the plastic container". They later referred to the pink nightie as being in a plastic bag, so I don't think they would refer to a plastic bag as a "container". We can see that the doll seems to be still in its plastic box, and I can see them referring to the box as a container.
Linda7NJ
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I think that it also may be referring to items photographed in evidence containers. IMO the blanket could be in a clear plastic tote and the nightgown in a clear plastic evidence bag.
It would sure help if WE could see the photos he's questioning her about!
Toltec,
Possibly he did not want to be seen leading Patsy, they knew the evidence had been redacted, so its likely only the R's would know of its existence?
1998 BPD Patsy Interview
I reckon the barbie doll is in the wine-cellar since the photo is of the barbie-nightgown. If Tom Haney was going to switch topic, say to the bedroom, he would have said to Patsy "here we have picture nn, showing JonBenet's bedroom." "Under there" must refer to the Barbie Nightgown.
Here is a much clearer photo showing the white blanket and the Barbie Nightgown. Under which I reckon Tom Haney elicits an identification from Patsy e.g. Barbie Doll , I'm assuming Tom Haney never used that phrase. If this is correct then it also agrees with posters who have also identified the blurry image as a Barbie Doll.
Look closer at the Barbie Nightgown and to me it appears quite bloodstained, so was JonBenet killed whilst wearing the Barbie Nightgown, and playing with her doll?
.
madeleine
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I still stand by my opinion that she was wearing the nightgown when it happened.
JOHN RAMSEY: It wouldn't be, no,
6 it would be unusual for her to have those on.
7 Leggings, kind of just a regular nightgown. She
8 didn't always wear a nightgown to bed. If she
9 was awake when she went to bed, she got into a
10 nightgown and brushed her teeth, got into bed.
11 But if she was asleep, we usually just tried to
12 make her comfortable, make sure she was warm.
13 Didn't go into the trouble of getting her into a
14 nightgown, necessarily. Sometimes she had a tee
15 shirt on.
JOHN RAMSEY: I laid her on the
21 bed. I didn't -- I don't remember the cover,
22 if the bed was made or not, but I laid her on
23 the bed. Because I knew Patsy would follow up
24 to put her nightgown on and get her ready for
25 bed.0498
LOU SMIT: We have heard
16 that a Barbie nightgown was one of her
17 favorite nightgowns. What can you tell us
18 about that?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: I think she had a
20 Barbie nightgown, yeah, as I recall. Pink,
21 maybe.
22 LOU SMIT: The night you put
23 her in bed, do you remember anything about
24 a Barbie nightgown?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: When I put
0686
1 her to bed she had on, when I laid her
2 down in the bed, she had on what she had
3 worn to the Whites. She had that same
4 shirt on when I found her. (BS IMO.He first says put her to bed,which IMO indicates she was awake,then changes it to laid her down in the bed)
The redressing.....maybe it wasn't done just to clean her up .......it was also part of the "she was sleeping when we arrived home" scenario .And why does JR say the gown shouldn't be there??Because they forgot to get rid of it?
JOHN RAMSEY: It wouldn't be, no,
6 it would be unusual for her to have those on.
7 Leggings, kind of just a regular nightgown. She
8 didn't always wear a nightgown to bed. If she
9 was awake when she went to bed, she got into a
10 nightgown and brushed her teeth, got into bed.
11 But if she was asleep, we usually just tried to
12 make her comfortable, make sure she was warm.
13 Didn't go into the trouble of getting her into a
14 nightgown, necessarily. Sometimes she had a tee
15 shirt on.
JOHN RAMSEY: I laid her on the
21 bed. I didn't -- I don't remember the cover,
22 if the bed was made or not, but I laid her on
23 the bed. Because I knew Patsy would follow up
24 to put her nightgown on and get her ready for
25 bed.0498
LOU SMIT: We have heard
16 that a Barbie nightgown was one of her
17 favorite nightgowns. What can you tell us
18 about that?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: I think she had a
20 Barbie nightgown, yeah, as I recall. Pink,
21 maybe.
22 LOU SMIT: The night you put
23 her in bed, do you remember anything about
24 a Barbie nightgown?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: When I put
0686
1 her to bed she had on, when I laid her
2 down in the bed, she had on what she had
3 worn to the Whites. She had that same
4 shirt on when I found her. (BS IMO.He first says put her to bed,which IMO indicates she was awake,then changes it to laid her down in the bed)
The redressing.....maybe it wasn't done just to clean her up .......it was also part of the "she was sleeping when we arrived home" scenario .And why does JR say the gown shouldn't be there??Because they forgot to get rid of it?
madeleine
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Look closer at the Barbie Nightgown and to me it appears quite bloodstained, so was JonBenet killed whilst wearing the Barbie Nightgown, and playing with her doll?
.
Dunno in which depo it is but it's either Beckner or ST who says that the nightgown had blood on it.I swear I read it somewhere.
madeleine
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6 LOU SMIT: And then we have a
7 Barbie or a nightgown. There is just
8 suggestions that are made to that, and
9 what's your opinion of that, and what's
10 your impression?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: God, I can only
12 imagine it. That that was something very
13 perverted.
Perverted?
7 Barbie or a nightgown. There is just
8 suggestions that are made to that, and
9 what's your opinion of that, and what's
10 your impression?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: God, I can only
12 imagine it. That that was something very
13 perverted.
Perverted?
madeleine,
Samples were taken from the Barbie Nightgown to be used for DNA testing. e.g. #17A, #17C .
If corect then this should change our assumptions regarding what JonBenet was wearing prior to being killed. I've always suspected she was wearing that Barbie Nightgown. Also why is the white blanket not as blood-stained as the nightgown, if the nightgown arrived in the wine-cellar accidently?
Looks like we need to revise the RDI to include the Barbie Nightgown and Blood-stained Barbie Doll.
.
madeleine,
I think there was two, or more, and that Patsy's sister purchased one for JonBenet.
.
madeleine
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20 PATSY RAMSEY: That is a Barbie doll under
21 there.
22 TOM HANEY: It appears from the waist down
23 you can see that much, but from the waist up, because
24 of the plastic, there is a flash and the reflection
25 that is washed out.
0385
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. The nightgowns were
2 kept in the bathroom, in her bathroom in the side
3 drawer there. Her pajamas were there.
4 TOM HANEY: All of them?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Unless they were in the dirty
6 clothes.
IMO they were talking about a doll that was down there (and collected as evidence because it was in a plastic bag,right?) and she changes the subject.
Thoughts?
This is getting interesting.
21 there.
22 TOM HANEY: It appears from the waist down
23 you can see that much, but from the waist up, because
24 of the plastic, there is a flash and the reflection
25 that is washed out.
0385
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. The nightgowns were
2 kept in the bathroom, in her bathroom in the side
3 drawer there. Her pajamas were there.
4 TOM HANEY: All of them?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Unless they were in the dirty
6 clothes.
IMO they were talking about a doll that was down there (and collected as evidence because it was in a plastic bag,right?) and she changes the subject.
Thoughts?
This is getting interesting.
madeleine,
Good find! Nicee! Perverted , so he knew , he knew the prior molestation would eventually be revealed.
.