Burlap and Forensics

This may be the source of the burlap.

Look at this:
http://www.sswa.org/GallerySlideshow.aspx?ID=6&ImgID=42

Notice the "Winter Brant Feeding Program". I believe this picture was taken in 2007, but I can't date it for sure.

I believe that this is a Federally funded program whereby the USFWS arranges for the Commodity Credit Corporation (CCC) to deliver bagged surplus grain unfit for human consumption to a regional location on Long Island. It would be bagged in "standard" burlap/jute bags. The administrator of the program (the regional USFWS office) would allow for groups like SSWA, Ducks Unlimited, etc. to pick up the feed for feeding brants in winter months, so they don't starve to death. The hunters like this because they can essentially bait their game. There's probably a rule about not shooting directly off a bait pile or within 10 days of feeding, but hey.

Here's an image of what I believe is a winter bird feeding operation, and what I believe to be jute-bagged, surplus CCC grain (this is not the SSWA):
http://www.estevanwildlifefederation.com/?page_id=16
3200974200_edc81f055b_m.jpg


http://icwdm.org/handbook/birds/Waterfowl.asp
Surplus grain to conduct these feeding programs can be obtained from the Commodity Credit Corporation (CCC). People interested in obtaining CCC grain for use in waterfowl damage abatement programs should contact personnel from their local US Fish and Wildlife Service regional office. CCC surplus grain may only be used for the direct feeding of depredating waterfowl or for seeding waterfowl feeding areas. It may not be used to replace grain lost to depredating waterfowl.


http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/juris/j0743_44.sgml
Upon receipt of a report and recommendations based upon an investigation conducted under 90.15, the Secretary shall make a determination that the applicant meets the qualifications for receiving grain. He shall then determine the quantity of grain, either bagged or in bulk, to be made available; the means of transportation; and the point of delivery in the vicinity of the crop damage. Before receiving delivery of such grain the applicant shall execute and deliver to any officer authorized to enforce this part written assurances as follows:
<p>

This is all part of this program set up by the Federal government in like the 1960s:
www.fsa.usda.gov/Internet/FSA_File/section32_and_related_laws.pdf
See sections:
USE OF SURPLUS GRAIN TO PREVENT WATERFOWL DEPREDATIONS
REIMBURSEMENT FOR PACKAGING AND TRANSPORTATION
REQUISTION OF SURPLUS GRAIN TO PREVENT STARVATION OF RESIDENT GAME BIRDS AND WILDLIFE
 
Found it.

http://www.sswa.org/GallerySlideshow.aspx?ID=18&ImgID=316

Note the burlap camo tablecloth that they're using at their annual show in New Jersey? I wonder who the owner of that is?

OK, here's a group that has an annual event at Cedar Beach (at Gilgo in 2000). They have an annual clay shooting event within a stone's throw of where the Manorville bodies were found. They attend an annual event in New Jersey 30 minutes from where those NJ women were found. This photo is dated 1 year before the Atlantic City slayings, but I guarantee they were there in 2006.

Am I just crazy here?

By the way, I updated my tip to the SCPD.

I attached the file.
 

Attachments

  • Burlap.jpg
    Burlap.jpg
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Again, I know we want to explore all possible burlap connections and I think its critical that we keep doing it.

A week or two ago I had asked how easy it was to obtain burlap from sources that the common man can access and did not get a response other than that it was important that we investigate the possibilities (totally agreed).

However, I just want to put it out there that I just went over to Amazon.com and you can buy potato and racing style 24x40 burlap sacks there as well as burlap rolls. It seems you can buy these products at any number of hardware stores or nursery supply stores as well.

It would be highly interesting to know the exact dimensions of the material and any markings/words/branding because if they were just run of the mill burlap sacks, it seems anyone can obtain them. There could be no connection whatsoever to the person's occupation or hobbies.

And if there is, it could be as simple as that the person works at a hardware store.

Just a thought.
 
IMO burlap equals red herring at this point.

you know i never thought about it much beyond the purpose of weeding out, but now that you mention it, burlap would be the perfect red herring for a long island serial killer: joel rifkin, landscaping, etc.
 
On one more note, it looks like the material is dirt cheap, too. Big bags can run like $1/each online. Maybe it was just convenient. Maybe the person already had some around.
 
I'm sure if LE ever gets tired of receiving tips in this case, they will let the public know Themselves.
 
Again, I know we want to explore all possible burlap connections and I think its critical that we keep doing it.......

In my opinion, this ISN'T just a burlap connection. It's a connection to 3 crime scenes, and burlap.
 
In my opinion, this ISN'T just a burlap connection. It's a connection to 3 crime scenes, and burlap.

I understand that and its one of the reasons I think it is important to keep going with the possible ideas/connections. But I think we ought to also keep in mind that this is an easily-obtained, cheap material that anyone can get. That is all.
 
Has it been said for sure that bodies were found inside burlap bags? I thought early on, that a poster provided news quotes about bodies being "wrapped" in burlap. Burlap is a good crafting material for things such as table cloths, place mats, etc. and can be bought at stores that sell sewing materials. The killer could also have/had a wife who crafts or has old rolls of such things. I posted awhile back that it could also have been chosen as something that would blend in with sand in color.
 
Has it been said for sure that bodies were found inside burlap bags? I thought early on, that a poster provided news quotes about bodies being "wrapped" in burlap. Burlap is a good crafting material for things such as table cloths, place mats, etc. and can be bought at stores that sell sewing materials. The killer could also have/had a wife who crafts or has old rolls of such things. I posted awhile back that it could also have been chosen as something that would blend in with sand in color.

Sacks:

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/long_island_serial_killer/index.html
 
Thanks for the link, dc! Lot's of helpful info there.

~snipped~

As part of his job or interests, experts speculate that the killer had access to, or a stockpile of, burlap sacks. Several of the women’s remains were wrapped in burlap sacks, and experts say he could have used them because they were part of his killing ritual or because they were the easiest cover he could find. Burlap, however, is no longer common, and it might be easier to trace than a plastic bag. “To me, it takes away from his forensic sophistication and criminal sophistication and adds to the possibility that he is more interested in this ritual aspect,” said Mr. Clemente.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/long_island_serial_killer/index.html

Hopefully the burlap will have some forensic evidence to help track this SK. One thing about burlap is everything sticks to it.....hair, thread, carpet fibers, pet hair, etc. It also holds scents as well. JMO, as I use a burlap sack on the floor in my workspace when I sew and do arts and crafts. The dogs love rolling on it and resting on it, too. It is great because since everything clings to it, clean up is easier and I just shake it off afterwards.

In defense of burlap, there are many more productive uses for it than disposing of bodies.:innocent: Hopefully the most productive of it's uses will help catch a killer!

MOO

wm
 
The article claims that Joel Rifkin, serial killer, believes the person is a landscaper, contractor, or fisherman. Someone who can carry burlap sacks without raising suspicion. What happened to profilers. Now they are getting the opinions of killers for tv shows and interviews.
 
Hi txsvicki!

Thanks for the info about burlap and it's relationship to crafts. Do you know if burlap can be found in fabric stores?

slim

Oops! I just re-read your post and you mentioned where burlap can be bought.
 
Hi txsvicki!

Thanks for the info about burlap and it's relationship to crafts. Do you know if burlap can be found in fabric stores?

slim

Oops! I just re-read your post and you mentioned where burlap can be bought.

I'm not totally positive, but the Walmart lady said that it is at fabric stores. I saw several crafting blogs devoted to burlap and was looking for some to make a rag throw rug.
 
I'm not totally positive, but the Walmart lady said that it is at fabric stores. I saw several crafting blogs devoted to burlap and was looking for some to make a rag throw rug.


Hi Txsvicki, I have bought colored burlap at the fabric store for matting artwork.

BTW, OT, but did you see that Elizabeth Smart got married today? I remember the days when we cut teeth on her case. I was always guided by your posts then as I was just a newbie from About.com. What a day when she was found!!! :blowkiss:
 
Yep burlap is cheap as cheap can get and literally can be purchased in any town or city around the country... I personally have bought literal bolts/rolls of it from Hancock Fabrics.. In Store there are literally a hundred bolts available on any given day and in any color imaginable.. Khaki, tan, sand colored... To darker variations of brown.. To multi shades of camo colored burlap..

And did I mention how very dirt cheap.. It's so very far from being rare even in slightest..
 
I wonder what they can tell about the burlap. Was it cut from a bolt or was it a premade sack or was it a home made sack. You generally can tell if it was made on a typical sewing machine. If it was made on a serger well then that will be a bit harder to tell but, comparing it to purchased ones and a sample home made serger will do it.
and if it is made with a serger at home, if it is a sack, that will speak volumes of a professional or serious sewer of things...
 
Did the police say whether the burlap was in sheets or bags? There is a bulk burlap manufacturer, NYP Burlap. They are in Nassau County. Landscapers use sheet burlap. Horse feed used to come in burlap. Don't know if they still do. Was there3 any printing on the burlap?
 
Did the police say whether the burlap was in sheets or bags? There is a bulk burlap manufacturer, NYP Burlap. They are in Nassau County. Landscapers use sheet burlap. Horse feed used to come in burlap. Don't know if they still do. Was there3 any printing on the burlap?

Welcome to WS, themare!

The burlap sack that I have has a coffee co. stamp on it. I sure wish we knew if the GB4 were wrapped in burlap sheets on in sacks. There has been confusion from the conflicting news reports about this and no confirmation one way or the other by LE.
MOO

wm:)
 

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