Probably half asleep I would imagine.
Site of attack on JNS: Can it lead to clues about Jacob?
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To all the people that cant fathom a 10 year old could not commit murder.
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Probably half asleep I would imagine.
bodester413
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The second location that Sigrun pointed out looks similar to the video. I haven't been able to use the ground view on google maps for the third location that Sigrun gave. So I couldn't see what it looked like when you actually drove on the road. That looks like like it might be also be similar. I did a screen grab of the video. I'll try and clean it up in Photoshop. Might be able to see something I didn't at first.
45.463478, -94.504091 -second location link
45.469973, -94.478737 -third link. Very isolated. Gravel pit of some sort.
Video link.
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/05/15/abduction-victim-speaks-out-on-wetterling-case/
45.463478, -94.504091 -second location link
45.469973, -94.478737 -third link. Very isolated. Gravel pit of some sort.
Video link.
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/05/15/abduction-victim-speaks-out-on-wetterling-case/
bufflehead
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I'm unclear as to when the police heard that Dan had seen a small blue car that night. The memory of a passenger (child or woman) in the passenger seat is what was uncovered via hypnosis, but Dan told a St. Cloud newspaper reporter the day after the abduction about both cars that he had seen, according to his story on Joy's blog. But do we know if he told the deputy that night?
If not, or if Dan did tell him but the info wasn't quickly disseminated, it's possible that DJH could have gotten away with driving out away from the area, not near the site of Jared's assault at all, maybe in a state of panic since his scanner would enable him to hear what was going on near the farm. He was unemployed at the time (I believe), living with his mother who records show had just remarried in May of 1989 (so I'm not sure if she was actually physically living with him)...if no one is keeping tabs on him, what's to stop him from being gone for hours, especially if nobody is actively looking for a small blue car? JMO but he could have gotten on the freeway and driven in any direction for hours before heading back home.
alldayworkingman
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djh did something idk what ,but wasn't the suspects in all the sketchings older than a twenty something year old man at the time.he looks today what the sketching of 25 years ago had . .he did something but something dont add up .he would have been to young to fit the description of the people seen around when jacob was taken. the person or persons that took jacob was seen by the store clerk that night or the kids in the woods seen the person or persons responsible for taking Jacob.they or he were waiting for the chance .they had to be seen.
bodester413
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I tried to lighten up and sharpen a screen grab of that video. I'll try and post it....sorry if it doesn't work. I've never posted pics on here. There's a spot near a church that looks similar when compared to the area in the video. Coordinates for that are below.
45.455911, -94.475739
Video was from this link
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/05/15/abduction-victim-speaks-out-on-wetterling-case/
45.455911, -94.475739
Video was from this link
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/05/15/abduction-victim-speaks-out-on-wetterling-case/
Attachments
There was a side-by-side comparison posted up-thread of a photo taken not too long after the sketch was made and you can see a definitely likeness. (And Heinrich does appear older than most 25 year olds today.) Plus, all the other details that are strikingly similar- I'd be shocked if Heinrich didn't at least kidnap JW.
On a side note- with the neighbors of Heinrich saying he would often be seen having conversations with himself, etc...I am really hoping that is a long overdue conscious kicking in and I really, really hope he has a big mouth. If he did, indeed, say to neighbors that the police 'will never pin it on him', etc...that is, to me, another indicator he did it. Innocent people don't say things like that. They profess their innocence...they say "I don't know why they are looking into me.", etc... Praying they find something concrete to nail him. Praying he at least gets the max for all the child *advertiser censored* he has. I hope he "brags" to a fellow prisoner (if they let him into the general population that is).
** This is in response to alldayworkingman's post. I don't know what's up with my computer, but I'll re-load and it won't show latest post until I post... Happened twice now..sorry!
On a side note- with the neighbors of Heinrich saying he would often be seen having conversations with himself, etc...I am really hoping that is a long overdue conscious kicking in and I really, really hope he has a big mouth. If he did, indeed, say to neighbors that the police 'will never pin it on him', etc...that is, to me, another indicator he did it. Innocent people don't say things like that. They profess their innocence...they say "I don't know why they are looking into me.", etc... Praying they find something concrete to nail him. Praying he at least gets the max for all the child *advertiser censored* he has. I hope he "brags" to a fellow prisoner (if they let him into the general population that is).
** This is in response to alldayworkingman's post. I don't know what's up with my computer, but I'll re-load and it won't show latest post until I post... Happened twice now..sorry!
It is 45.463478, -94.504091, second link as you said. I verified it by comparison to the video. It was also the best candidate and is the only site that fits all the reliable info we have. I verified this with the video by expecting to see a fork in the road, which I did. In the 1991 imagery you can see it. Also, in 1991 all those trees on the left were not there. The right fork goes to a farmhouse, the left fork goes into the "pines" (the woods). I suspected this is where JS was taken, and I suspect the new POI shot JEW here (jmo so far). The right fork was a mixture of gravel and dirt, the left fork was dirt. The silo is to the left of the video image but you can't see it for the trees that are there now. Here is the overview. The locator shown is a little off as they were further into the drive than this, just beyond where it forks:
Looking at the enhanced video, I'm thinking this shot is of the drive at the highway, but now not sure if it is the Church or the property I posted.
I tried to lighten up and sharpen a screen grab of that video. I'll try and post it....sorry if it doesn't work. I've never posted pics on here. There's a spot near a church that looks similar when compared to the area in the video. Coordinates for that are below.
45.455911, -94.475739
Video was from this link
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/05/15/abduction-victim-speaks-out-on-wetterling-case/
Yes, I see what you mean. Now, compare this to the one I posted, but move the red marker out to the highway. Same view.
This site:
1. It is not 5 miles from Cold Spring. It isn't even 2 miles (Star Tribune)
2. It is not anywhere near Richmond Ball park, but they supposedly stopped "shortly after that" according to the search warrant. Thus, to be here they had to go west 2 more miles, then come back toward Cold Spring another 2 miles to this location.
3. According to news sources there was a silo. I don't see any silos anywhere around in the 1991 imagery.
4. It is not north of Richmond, it is almost due east, about halfway between Cold Spring and Richmond
Site I posted:
1. 3 miles as the crow flies, 5 by road
2. One silo as indicated
3. One pole light, as indicated
4. "Shortly after" the Richmond Ball park
5. North of Richmond
I think I see why it is confusing now. Yes, the coordinates you gave are the Church I posted and asked about earlier. Not sure what to make of this. But if shergal didn't use this video, and this is the correct site, what information did she base it on? It does not comport with any of the information in the search warrant or news sources. So, very baffling indeed.
Observations: this site makes disposal of remains in place more likely. The site I found makes it less likely. jmo
bodester413
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Yup. It is the one you asked about. I wrote it off when I first looked at it because it didn't make sense as far as what was said in the indictment when they talked about driving there. Lots of things didn't match. Then after comparing yours to the one I tried to enhance I thought well I might as well see what the one I wrote off looks like when you're on the ground and it kinda matched too. The trees on the horizon etc...I'm not sure what Shurgal based hers on. I think I just read a snippet of someone mentioning a newer church and when I searched that church was newer. The one you posted totally reminds me of the DR farm. I mean you could park in that driveway and no one would see. For some reason it sticks out to me. How the people in the house wouldn't be able to see large areas of their property.
edit- Totally agree with the disposal comment. When I saw what it looked like before the church was built that's the first thing that popped into my head. A lot of land with nothing on it.
bodester413
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It is 45.463478, -94.504091, second link as you said. I verified it by comparison to the video. It was also the best candidate and is the only site that fits all the reliable info we have. I verified this with the video by expecting to see a fork in the road, which I did. In the 1991 imagery you can see it. Also, in 1991 all those trees on the left were not there. The right fork goes to a farmhouse, the left fork goes into the "pines" (the woods). I suspected this is where JS was taken, and I suspect the new POI shot JEW here (jmo so far). The right fork was a mixture of gravel and dirt, the left fork was dirt. The silo is to the left of the video image but you can't see it for the trees that are there now. Here is the overview. The locator shown is a little off as they were further into the drive than this, just beyond where it forks:
Looking at the enhanced video, I'm thinking this shot is of the drive at the highway, but now not sure if it is the Church or the property I posted.
I know. They're so close when you're on street view. From the air it looks like they should be different, but turning in on street view......I don't know. Once you take into consideration the time difference in the photos/videos. Trees not having leaves in the enhanced one. Like you said below. Very baffling.
I tried to lighten up and sharpen a screen grab of that video. I'll try and post it....sorry if it doesn't work. I've never posted pics on here. There's a spot near a church that looks similar when compared to the area in the video. Coordinates for that are below.
45.455911, -94.475739
Video was from this link
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/05/15/abduction-victim-speaks-out-on-wetterling-case/
I've examined this in a lot more detail now. In the video you can see frame by frame on the left that there is a topographical depression and a horizon view; the road is elevated from the left. The road also has a slight turn to the left toward the end of the video. This is consistent with the property you found (with a pond beside it) and is inconsistent with the one I found. I think you found it.
I've placed the coordinate over the wooded area where I think remains, if they exist, are most likely buried:
45.456050, -94.476344
And I've attached 2014 google imagery and the 1991 imagery for comparison (first two b/c it won't let me post all at once):
Attachments
What is really baffling to me is why all those details about the location appear to be wrong. Here is the 1991 imagery of the site you found:
bodester413
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What is really baffling to me is why all those details about the location appear to be wrong. Here is the 1991 imagery of the site you found:
I know. It's really weird. If someone else, and then you hadn't pointed out the church I would have never looked there..... I kept looking for all the details until finally I went back and reread one of your posts where you had one area that you thought was good but didn't match everything...and I thought....actually I think looking like this makes more sense than what I've been doing. Maybe be a little more relaxed as far as the markers that Jared mentioned.
bodester413
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You're right the road does turn slightly to the left. I didn't even notice that. The longer I looked at it the less sure I was that I wasn't just seeing things because of the blurry image. At one point I thought there was a silo on the right but it ended up being a tree or something. Finally I just thought I'll post it and see what others see and think. Even thought it doesn't match some of what we assumed was correct.
Whoa, yes those trees....I agree with you on that too.
Whoa, yes those trees....I agree with you on that too.
RBBM
I based my original search on churches. I googled "churches near Richmond" on google maps. Many churches came up. So I just looked around each one until I found one by a farm with a yard light, and that was near where Hollinger lived (because he was my suspect at the time). Your last photo in post #72 is the farm location I found. Hollinger's trailer is almost directly north of that - quite a ways. I'll grab the photo I originally sent to cGorg, since you have already posted the location pic now. (I just didn't feel we should be posting pics of the location on here, because it's private property and I doubt the FBI wants a bunch of people out there digging around.) Maybe a body would have been dumped in that quarry or pond and weighted down somehow.
http://www.deadzoom.com/member/samiping/2farms.jpg
Thanks shergal. Now that I'm caught up I'll continue with where I was hoping to go with this. If anyone is interested in helping, I’d like to know your opinion on these items I was wondering about until now:
1. Given the layout, what are the odds that this is the same place the POI took JEW, keeping in mind that JEW was never released, never escaped and was never seen after being abducted?
2. Given the layout, how likely is it that JEW died at that location?
3. Does the JS assault site have any salient features that might indicate what kinds of properties JEW might have been taken to, if not this one?
4. Given the exact location of this property, what are the odds that the new POI, given what we know about him, would have taken JEW from DR’s driveway to this place?
5. Is there anything about this property to suggest the likelihood that the POI might leave human remains in place (mostly) rather than transporting them; considering the means available to this POI to control and/or destroy evidence.
6. And yes, what are the odds that an attacker at this site could discharge a handgun at least once and not expose his activity there?
A poster earlier used the phrase “arc of violence” and it struck me how appropriate that phrase here is.
This POI began as a small town pervert, a caricature of “Chester”, and proceeded on a natural arc of violence from
a. Groping
b. Knocking prepubescent boys off their bikes
c. Threatening them with a knife
d. Threatening them with a firearm
e. Threatening them with a firearm and brandishing one as well
Jmo, but the simplest explanation with the least number of assumptions given what we know is:
1. That the POI is a person with a gross misapprehension of risk. The police have noticed this, too, in pointing out how brazen and reckless his actions were.
2. Related to 1, this POI was and is supremely confident he cannot be caught.
3. On his continued arc of violence we see an increasing frustration of this POI in each case as a result of his being unable to satisfy his urges: this POI was unable to control his urges.
4. In JEW’s abduction he brought what appeared to be a loaded handgun, threatened to use it and brandished it.
5. On abducting JEW, the POI intended to visit upon an 11 year-old child an evening of shock, confusion and terror.
From this it isn’t hard to predict the outcome. It should really come as no surprise that JS was released and JEW was not. It hinges on this arc of violence and how far the POI took it. This is all in hindsight and the victims had no way of knowing this, but it is all too clear now. In other words, we could treat both the JS abduction and the JEW abduction as copy-cat acts save for the POIs arc of violence from one victim to the next.
1. Given the layout, what are the odds that this is the same place the POI took JEW, keeping in mind that JEW was never released, never escaped and was never seen after being abducted?
2. Given the layout, how likely is it that JEW died at that location?
3. Does the JS assault site have any salient features that might indicate what kinds of properties JEW might have been taken to, if not this one?
4. Given the exact location of this property, what are the odds that the new POI, given what we know about him, would have taken JEW from DR’s driveway to this place?
5. Is there anything about this property to suggest the likelihood that the POI might leave human remains in place (mostly) rather than transporting them; considering the means available to this POI to control and/or destroy evidence.
6. And yes, what are the odds that an attacker at this site could discharge a handgun at least once and not expose his activity there?
A poster earlier used the phrase “arc of violence” and it struck me how appropriate that phrase here is.
This POI began as a small town pervert, a caricature of “Chester”, and proceeded on a natural arc of violence from
a. Groping
b. Knocking prepubescent boys off their bikes
c. Threatening them with a knife
d. Threatening them with a firearm
e. Threatening them with a firearm and brandishing one as well
Jmo, but the simplest explanation with the least number of assumptions given what we know is:
1. That the POI is a person with a gross misapprehension of risk. The police have noticed this, too, in pointing out how brazen and reckless his actions were.
2. Related to 1, this POI was and is supremely confident he cannot be caught.
3. On his continued arc of violence we see an increasing frustration of this POI in each case as a result of his being unable to satisfy his urges: this POI was unable to control his urges.
4. In JEW’s abduction he brought what appeared to be a loaded handgun, threatened to use it and brandished it.
5. On abducting JEW, the POI intended to visit upon an 11 year-old child an evening of shock, confusion and terror.
From this it isn’t hard to predict the outcome. It should really come as no surprise that JS was released and JEW was not. It hinges on this arc of violence and how far the POI took it. This is all in hindsight and the victims had no way of knowing this, but it is all too clear now. In other words, we could treat both the JS abduction and the JEW abduction as copy-cat acts save for the POIs arc of violence from one victim to the next.
I believe that DH did feel it was risky to continue his attacks locally as he stopped and moved elsewhere. He clearly escalated his MO. He also went from city streets to dark and quiet dirt/gravel roads in the country. I believe that he thought DR's driveway was a road or he would have backed in or turned all the way around to get away quicker. If he thought it was a road, he may have thought he was going to continue down the road to assault JW. When he had to turn around in DR's driveway, he knew he had to re-think his plan. Maybe he did go somewhere that he knew he had privacy? If he did go to the same location where he took JS, I recall it had an old pond that was filled in. I don't remember where I saw that but they should certainly check there.
Jennifermn
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If you do google street view on the coordinates posted (45.455911, -94.475739) there are no utility boxes present. In the video, and when you look at the still photograph captured from the video posted a page back, you can clearly see utility boxes.
Yes, kind of what I'm thinking. Since the actual location appears to be so close to Cold Spring (less than 2 miles from where JS was abducted) I think it is more likely that JEW's assault site was 1 to 3 miles outside St. Joseph. This means a different place. If we use the property of JS' assault as a template for what this POI might choose, I think we could find similar sites in a radius of 1 to 3 miles from DR's driveway. That is my plan and I will post what I find. I think I can narrow it down to maybe three sites. Once done, we can put all these sites into one list. With less than 10 sites I think the odds would be around 50/50 that JEW's remains could be found on one of them.
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