The Sidebar - Ross Harris Trial

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I am pulling this over from the trial thread, but unfortunately I do not know how to officially quote it.

Post# 1030 by collete:
Even though he has made this trip many times, the trip still takes longer than the LE says it does. If they have such a good case, why do they have to lie about many facts? That is the problem with this case. Also Harris usually went to CFA drive thru so things were different that day.

Respectfully, the trip is that short. While LE has been less than truthful about many things that have been released, it is .6 miles from CFA to the Tree House. The 0.6 miles includes an extra 0.1 mile for making the U-turn to avoid the center median. It is about 0.15 miles, including the U-turn, from CFA to the middle of the intersection. It is less than 0.1 miles from the CFA exit until the turn lane starts. I have driven through that intersection over 1,000 times (twice a day for 4+ years), and I can assure you that it is just as close as LE says that it is. In fact, I think that the State did a terrible job during the opening statements with not conveying to the jury exactly how close the turn lane is to the CFA exit. The turn lane is actually immediately in front of the CFA exit, but Ross had to backtrack about 100-150 yards to avoid the median.


But what of traffic? I've been in traffic many a time , both in cities and on highways, when distance meant little in terms of time spent driving. Worst in recent past was getting stuck on a trip west in Sunday return traffic going into Denver, when we averaged literally one mile an hour for 2 1/2 hours.
 
I don't believe that people murder people they love, much less in such a terribly painful way as Cooper died.

And no, the burden of proof belongs to the State, not the defense. Ross is presumed innocent until and unless a jury convicts him. The State must prove such searches were conducted if they choose to use his searches as "evidence" of his state of mind. The defense has no obligation to prove anything about his searches, or lack thereof, though they are clearly prepared to counter the State's misleading and inflammatory pretrial assertions about the searches should the State bring them up at trial.

Yes, of course the burden of proof is on the prosecution. What I am saying, is you seem to believe the searches didn't really happen, simply because the defense says they didn't. OF COURSE they are going to say that! They aren't going to agree. We haven't even come to that batch of evidence being presented and scrutinized, yet. Why not wait until that happens, before it's assumed the detective is lying? I just find it strange that the defense is believed so readily, before we've even reached that part of the trial. Accusing a detective of lying before it's presented in this trial is really lofty. I don't think either side can or should be accepted as fact right now. (IMO.) I have my own opinions, but if the evidence shows something else...well, I've been wrong before.
 
Yes, of course the burden of proof is on the prosecution. What I am saying, is you seem to believe the searches didn't really happen, simply because the defense says they didn't. OF COURSE they are going to say that! They aren't going to agree. We haven't even come to that batch of evidence being presented and scrutinized, yet. Why not wait until that happens, before it's assumed the detective is lying? I just find it strange that the defense is believed so readily, before we've even reached that part of the trial. Accusing a detective of lying before it's presented in this trial is really lofty. I don't think either side can or should be accepted as fact right now. (IMO.) I have my own opinions, but if the evidence shows something else...well, I've been wrong before.
I said the same thing yesterday....why is everything the defense says taken as gospel??? I hope the jurors have open minds and do the right thing with the evidence they are presented. I am really surprised at the Ross Harris backers on this thread.......Mods I am not referring to anyone in particular
 
I said the same thing yesterday....why is everything the defense says taken as gospel??? I hope the jurors have open minds and do the right thing with the evidence they are presented. I am really surprised at the Ross Harris backers on this thread.......Mods I am not referring to anyone in particular

Yes, I agree. Neither side should be taken as gospel. If the internet searches and comments don't hold up to examination, then that's a win for the defense. If the detective's statements are examined and shown to be false, than that's a whole other problem. However, I'm not going to call a detective a liar unless or until that happens. The defense is always going to paint this kind of picture, it's their job. I'm not going to take their word as gold, and I'm also not handing this to the prosecutor. They have much to prove, still. We are days in. It's ridiculous!!
 
But what of traffic? I've been in traffic many a time , both in cities and on highways, when distance meant little in terms of time spent driving. Worst in recent past was getting stuck on a trip west in Sunday return traffic going into Denver, when we averaged literally one mile an hour for 2 1/2 hours.

Have you ever been to the intersection near the CFA, The Home Depot's HQ, and the Tree House? If you are extremely familiar with that intersection, please forgive the following explanation. According to the time stamp on CFA's surveillance video, Ross left CFA at 9:19. By that time, congestion from rush hour has cleared out of the area. Cooper's death also occurred in June, a time when schools are not in session in Atlanta. Traffic here is consistently and signficantly lighter during the summer months.

Aside from all of that, Ross's chosen route to his office would not have been possible if traffic was heavy! Ross had three options for how to depart from CFA:

1) Make a right onto Cumberland Pkwy. and make an illegal U-turn
2) Use the extended drive that is to the right of CFA when looking at the front door, take an immediate left at the bottom of the hill, and then turn left onto Cumberland Pkwy. (this is the legal and recommended way to exit CFA when turning left on Cumberland Pkwy.)
3) Use the extended drive that is to the right of CFA when looking at the front door, proceed straight at the bottom of the hill, and then use the traffic light to turn left onto Cumberland Pkwy.

If traffic was super heavy, a U-turn would not have possible. As I have stated previously, I have driven through that particular intersection at least 1,000 times and can assure you that I have experienced that light both with and without traffic. When traffic is not moving, drivers do not even attempt to make that U-turn. Commuters in Atlanta are not polite, and nobody would allow a car to turn illegally. Furthermore, any traffic on Cumberland Pwky. would have opened up as soon as Ross cleared the intersection. Based on the above information, a person can conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that traffic was not an issue on Ross's "commute" to work. On top of that, the reported time stamps on both surveillance videos, which make Ross's entire trip 6 minutes, is exactly what I would have expected if Ross caught the light at the intersection.

On a related note, if Ross's "commute" was significantly altered due to traffic, don't you think that we would have heard about it by now?
 
How can one really prove someone forgot their child was in the car? Hard to do, anyone can say they forgot. How do you provide evidence in a case like this?
 
Have you ever been to the intersection near the CFA, The Home Depot's HQ, and the Tree House? If you are extremely familiar with that intersection, please forgive the following explanation. According to the time stamp on CFA's surveillance video, Ross left CFA at 9:19. By that time, congestion from rush hour has cleared out of the area. Cooper's death also occurred in June, a time when schools are not in session in Atlanta. Traffic here is consistently and signficantly lighter during the summer months.

Aside from all of that, Ross's chosen route to his office would not have been possible if traffic was heavy! Ross had three options for how to depart from CFA:

1) Make a right onto Cumberland Pkwy. and make an illegal U-turn
2) Use the extended drive that is to the right of CFA when looking at the front door, take an immediate left at the bottom of the hill, and then turn left onto Cumberland Pkwy. (this is the legal and recommended way to exit CFA when turning left on Cumberland Pkwy.)
3) Use the extended drive that is to the right of CFA when looking at the front door, proceed straight at the bottom of the hill, and then use the traffic light to turn left onto Cumberland Pkwy.

If traffic was super heavy, a U-turn would not have possible. As I have stated previously, I have driven through that particular intersection at least 1,000 times and can assure you that I have experienced that light both with and without traffic. When traffic is not moving, drivers do not even attempt to make that U-turn. Commuters in Atlanta are not polite, and nobody would allow a car to turn illegally. Furthermore, any traffic on Cumberland Pwky. would have opened up as soon as Ross cleared the intersection. Based on the above information, a person can conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that traffic was not an issue on Ross's "commute" to work. On top of that, the reported time stamps on both surveillance videos, which make Ross's entire trip 6 minutes, is exactly what I would have expected if Ross caught the light at the intersection.

On a related note, if Ross's "commute" was significantly altered due to traffic, don't you think that we would have heard about it by now?

Thank you GA-Peach for clearing that up :blowkiss: There is no way, IMO, that he forgot, no way!
 
I cannot even imagine forgetting a child or a pet in the car. It is unfathomable to me. Forget about traffic, forget about breakfast and forget about being preoccupied....no reason makes any sense to me.
 
How can one really prove someone forgot their child was in the car? Hard to do, anyone can say they forgot. How do you provide evidence in a case like this?

I don't think that you can prove a person forgot. It's part of the reason that cases like this fascinate me. However, the evidence can give credence to a particular theory. For example, were drugs or alcohol involved? Is there testimony that points to a distracted defendant? Additionally, forgetting is the result of a neurological breakdown, and those kind of breakdowns typically follow a pattern. Were any of those common causes present in the case (for example a change in routine)? JMO.
 
Have you ever been to the intersection near the CFA, The Home Depot's HQ, and the Tree House? If you are extremely familiar with that intersection, please forgive the following explanation. According to the time stamp on CFA's surveillance video, Ross left CFA at 9:19. By that time, congestion from rush hour has cleared out of the area. Cooper's death also occurred in June, a time when schools are not in session in Atlanta. Traffic here is consistently and signficantly lighter during the summer months.

Aside from all of that, Ross's chosen route to his office would not have been possible if traffic was heavy! Ross had three options for how to depart from CFA:

1) Make a right onto Cumberland Pkwy. and make an illegal U-turn
2) Use the extended drive that is to the right of CFA when looking at the front door, take an immediate left at the bottom of the hill, and then turn left onto Cumberland Pkwy. (this is the legal and recommended way to exit CFA when turning left on Cumberland Pkwy.)
3) Use the extended drive that is to the right of CFA when looking at the front door, proceed straight at the bottom of the hill, and then use the traffic light to turn left onto Cumberland Pkwy.

If traffic was super heavy, a U-turn would not have possible. As I have stated previously, I have driven through that particular intersection at least 1,000 times and can assure you that I have experienced that light both with and without traffic. When traffic is not moving, drivers do not even attempt to make that U-turn. Commuters in Atlanta are not polite, and nobody would allow a car to turn illegally. Furthermore, any traffic on Cumberland Pwky. would have opened up as soon as Ross cleared the intersection. Based on the above information, a person can conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that traffic was not an issue on Ross's "commute" to work. On top of that, the reported time stamps on both surveillance videos, which make Ross's entire trip 6 minutes, is exactly what I would have expected if Ross caught the light at the intersection.

On a related note, if Ross's "commute" was significantly altered due to traffic, don't you think that we would have heard about it by now?


It was just a mostly idle question, actually, since the total time for his commute is known, and as I've said, I think the difference between 1 or 2 or even 3 minutes to the intersection is irrelevant.
 
I cannot even imagine forgetting a child or a pet in the car. It is unfathomable to me. Forget about traffic, forget about breakfast and forget about being preoccupied....no reason makes any sense to me.


I'm sadden that people actually do, it is hard to fathom :(
 
Have you ever been to the intersection near the CFA, The Home Depot's HQ, and the Tree House? If you are extremely familiar with that intersection, please forgive the following explanation. According to the time stamp on CFA's surveillance video, Ross left CFA at 9:19. By that time, congestion from rush hour has cleared out of the area. Cooper's death also occurred in June, a time when schools are not in session in Atlanta. Traffic here is consistently and signficantly lighter during the summer months.

Aside from all of that, Ross's chosen route to his office would not have been possible if traffic was heavy! Ross had three options for how to depart from CFA:

1) Make a right onto Cumberland Pkwy. and make an illegal U-turn
2) Use the extended drive that is to the right of CFA when looking at the front door, take an immediate left at the bottom of the hill, and then turn left onto Cumberland Pkwy. (this is the legal and recommended way to exit CFA when turning left on Cumberland Pkwy.)
3) Use the extended drive that is to the right of CFA when looking at the front door, proceed straight at the bottom of the hill, and then use the traffic light to turn left onto Cumberland Pkwy.

If traffic was super heavy, a U-turn would not have possible. As I have stated previously, I have driven through that particular intersection at least 1,000 times and can assure you that I have experienced that light both with and without traffic. When traffic is not moving, drivers do not even attempt to make that U-turn. Commuters in Atlanta are not polite, and nobody would allow a car to turn illegally. Furthermore, any traffic on Cumberland Pwky. would have opened up as soon as Ross cleared the intersection. Based on the above information, a person can conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that traffic was not an issue on Ross's "commute" to work. On top of that, the reported time stamps on both surveillance videos, which make Ross's entire trip 6 minutes, is exactly what I would have expected if Ross caught the light at the intersection.

On a related note, if Ross's "commute" was significantly altered due to traffic, don't you think that we would have heard about it by now?

We may need to keep this post handy because you know it will come up again...what about traffic, I was in traffic once and it took a lot longer to get where I was going. LOL
 
Yes, of course the burden of proof is on the prosecution. What I am saying, is you seem to believe the searches didn't really happen, simply because the defense says they didn't. OF COURSE they are going to say that! They aren't going to agree. We haven't even come to that batch of evidence being presented and scrutinized, yet. Why not wait until that happens, before it's assumed the detective is lying? I just find it strange that the defense is believed so readily, before we've even reached that part of the trial. Accusing a detective of lying before it's presented in this trial is really lofty. I don't think either side can or should be accepted as fact right now. (IMO.) I have my own opinions, but if the evidence shows something else...well, I've been wrong before.

I have a feeling that the term "searches" is going to be a matter of debate at trial. As in, when is a search a search? Does one have to enter a search term in Google or whatever for an online looksie into info to be considered a search? Or, is clicking on a link that is on an existing open page then following that link considered a search? Is there a difference in interest of intent that can be assigned based on how a page or video is accessed?

In all seriousness, it would be easy for anyone looking at my search history to conclude I have quite the interest in murders, trials, laws relating to all manner of evil deeds, what life is like in prison, what kind of visitation is allowed in prison, even what various prisons sell in their commissaries.

I can assure you I have never committed any crime of any kind, but woe would be me, I guess, if I became a suspect in a crime, had my computer searched, and had the misfortune of having just researched a crime that matched the one I was being suspected of, lol.
 
I have a feeling that the term "searches" is going to be a matter of debate at trial. As in, when is a search a search? Does one have to enter a search term in Google or whatever for an online looksie into info to be considered a search? Or, is clicking on a link that is on an existing open page then following that link considered a search? Is there a difference in interest of intent that can be assigned based on how a page or video is accessed?

In all seriousness, it would be easy for anyone looking at my search history to conclude I have quite the interest in murders, trials, laws relating to all manner of evil deeds, what life is like in prison, what kind of visitation is allowed in prison, even what various prisons sell in their commissaries.

I can assure you I have never committed any crime of any kind, but woe would be me, I guess, if I became a suspect in a crime, had my computer searched, and had the misfortune of having just researched a crime that matched the one I was being suspected of, lol.

I think it will be one of the most important parts of the trial. Say he was watching a news story about something else, and clicked on a story about dogs in cars. That would be good for the defense. If he went to an engine and typed how long it takes for a dog or kid to die in the car...that's not so good. I'm interested in how it will shake out.
 
I admit to wondering how many posters seem to be in RH corner. I know it's important to wait on the evidence in a trial, before drawing a conclusion. I am in the RH did it group. Seeing how close RH's work was has certainly swayed my opinion as to his guilt.
 
It was interesting to listen to the Probable Cause Hearing. ** I found out who the person that both State & Def spoke to Witness Hamilton - the man who had been at Subway. He spoke about a black man named Leonard Madden who he saw on local news interview. (I sure everyone else knew but I am just now following the trial)

Leonard Madden, was a witness at the Prob Cause Hearing. What made me laugh (ok I was tired) was that he spoke of his lunch date and called her his "associate". I was like omg lol I grabbed my notes, this is the man that Witness #5 A. Eastland was with. She also referenced him as "an associate" not a date and did not remember his name/spoke to him since. She is the witness that testimony didn't match that that she had given Det Murphy? in a recorded interview. She had also testified she forgot about that interview until just this questioning. She was let step down from stand and go refresh/listen to her testimony and return to stand.

Witness #5 orig told that she said it was grief setting in for him, what had happened. Panic. Also that she observed RH giving CPR.
JMHO

Also it was interesting to me after watch that Prob Cause Hearing, to go relisten to the Def Opening Statements. *I still want to listen to the Pretrial Hearing in Aug. But there were inconsistent statements in Stoddard testimony in that PC and from what LEO Witness so far have stated.

Also, JMHO it seems that RH was on the phone/internet late night prior and also that morning. Per the PC hearing it was stated that RH had been using the forward facing carseat until 2 weeks prior when his wife swapped out with rear facing, she went on a trip home to Alabama. Also stated that normal days RH would drop Cooper off at daycare then he would go to CF then to work.
PC hearing was July 3, 2014*
Think it will be interesting trial for sure. JMHO

*another tid bit that I feel the Def will bring back up is in May of that year the Gov of GA had started a campaign about looking in car and that they had seen on the Fox8 news? Stoddard was not aware of the campaign. Again I sure this is old but interesting seeing to me. Here is an old article, not the channel that was spoken about but the campaign.

"AUGUSTA, GA (WFXG) -
Gov. Nathan Deal and several state agencies are asking people to Look Again in a new YouTube video. The campaign is to help raise awareness about leaving children unattended in hot cars during the summer. (has a video) http://www.walb.com/story/25623267/gov-deal-launches-look-again
 
I think it will be one of the most important parts of the trial. Say he was watching a news story about something else, and clicked on a story about dogs in cars. That would be good for the defense. If he went to an engine and typed how long it takes for a dog or kid to die in the car...that's not so good. I'm interested in how it will shake out.

I watched the PC hearing last night and (I do understand the role of the Def Attorney) but at that hearing same Def Attorney as has been speaking at trial went through various stuff about searches of computers/phones. Stoddard testimony was mostly that he didnt know or have the info. Again it was interesting.
 
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This aerial view was taken from Google Earth. I have marked each place of interest on the map (starting on the far left):

1) The Home Depot Store Support Center (AKA The Home Depot HQ) - Location of Cooper's daycare
2) Publix - Location where Ross ate lunch
3) Chick-Fil-A - where Ross and Cooper ate breakfast
4) Treehouse Parking Lot - Ross's office; the actual building is hidden behind the trees but would be immediately under the parking lot on the map
5) The Home Depot where Ross purchased the light bulbs at lunch
 
"Orig post by magnolia : I can hardly wait for the Kilgore/Stoddard moment in the court-room. I think it's going to be an eye-opener. IMO http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Harris-3-October-2016&p=12854438#post12854438 "

Agree. Especially since lol Stoddard was in the courtroom during the Defense Opening Statements, and Kilgore pointed him out numerous times to the Jury! JMHO ** I also thought that was odd that he was allowed to be in there. Has he gotten to continue to be in there, does anyone know? Monday if they bring back Gillimore, I think that will be interesting JMHO
 
At the PC Hearing, Stoddard testified when asked that there were NO emotions by RH while in back of patrol car (not true) Stated did not cry when in the interview room alone (not true)

Under Def Kilgore cross:
Orig Warrant was Cruelty to a Child 1st Degree.
Kilgore: When was cruelty to child?
Stoddard: When left in car all day
Kilgore: Warrant doesn't alledge that act was intentional
Stoddard: Correct
Kilgore: If not intentional, then would you agree non-intentional?
Stoddard: thinks evidence now shows intent

6/24/16 put to 2nd Degree < was changed to when the murder charge added, Stoddard said multiple pieces of evidence, and primarily how the charge 2nd degree worded

Thought it was interesting that RH and Winston both forgot about going to Home Depot. Kilgore went through all the day and everything RH told LEo and they all checked out.

When asked if Stoddard knew whether RH had any physical limitations, Stoddard said if he had any he wouldn't be able to drive a car. Stoddard or Piper neither one so far knew of RH being deaf in R ear.

RESEARCH is Stoddard word he agrees

Child Free - April 2014, clicked on did not type in Search
How to Survive in Prison - typed in Search but (as of that July 3, 2014 PC hearing) they did not have date searched
Video by a vet that was shared on various social media June 13 accessed, but did not Google it (Stoddard says he couldn't say) Says watched twice. Does not have a time when watched just date,
Could it be he clicked to resume? Stoddard: Cant say

Makes me think of flashbacks of Casey Anthony and computer searches then to find out the information given to State by software person was incorrect. Not correct number of searches as the jury heard testimony was lead to believe. JMHO
 
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