Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #4

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little726 said:
I have always thought the "moonies" had something to do with their deaths.

They were a very popular cult in the 70's.
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Mm, from what I recall (and for the record, I was born after the 1970's) we didn't have a lot of 'moonies' activity around South Carolina. Although cults do reasonably well at staying hidden, I'm pretty certain they weren't here.

We used to get kids from Zendyk in downtown Charleston all the time. I believe they lived on a farm in Asheville at the time (my sister resides in Asheville now) and they would come to Charleston to recruit. Nice kids... I still have a magazine they put out... but they gave me the creeps.

I don't think these two were involved in a commune.
 
Teresa Larson said:
Why may I ask would you send anything to the attorney general's office?? They aren't going to do anything with it. If you want to send anybody something I would think the police chief in the county they were found would be the one to send it to. I have yet to see anyone that looks like either one of them. I also do not believe they are of Swedish decent. IMO. I have been looking at this case for a long time. I wish we could get the DNA results back.
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Not nescessarily the AG, but South Carolinas Department of Justice and sending possible tips and matches to the SC DOJ, it is part of their job to investigate and use their resources to bring about the prosecution and justice for all....To oversee, if you will, that all aspects of crimes and punishment are dealt with properly!!
FWIW, Nils doesn't actually look "Swedish" either, like Elliotness said, Nils looks more of the "Scandinavian" type which Sweden (Scandinavia) are quite diverse, just as we are here... (Of course, Sweden is in Scandinavian Peninsula) In my library of "Social Studies" most Swedens are Tall, Blonde, Fair and Athletic looking! Scandinavian types, well , actually Nordic Scandinavian types seem to have darker hair and olive skin type, so it's hard to say! This couple appears to be from the same culture (ethnicity), hopefully DNA will tell us which......:banghead:
 
I think it's important that we all keep an open mind vis a vis potential matches. I'm as frustrated as you all are over the delayed DNA results. We've got to keep looking and I don't think it's good to dismiss anyone out of hand. Personally, I'm not 100% sure that Nils Benny Forsgren is "Jock" either. My gut feeling tells me that whoever this guy Jock was his initials will be JPF and it's possible that "Jock" or "Jacques" could be a nickname for John. Also, I did some research on the name, Jock, and it's of French and Israeli origin. Is it possible that Jock/Jacques was Jewish and from Israel? Or a Jewish man from Canada? This could explain his olive complexion, dark hair and eyes.

The thing that puzzles me the most is why not one family member has came forward to look for either of these two. Even if Jock/Jacques was disowned by his father, that doesn't mean that the rest of his family disowned him. I've been checking US and Canadian websites, but haven't found either of these two yet. Is it possible that they could be on foreign websites? Many Internet pages nowadays offer English translations.
 
It's possible that they just thought he moved away and just never heard from him since, thinking that he was fine, thus no missing persons report being filed... it happens a lot.
 
It's really not important (or any of our business, to be honest) why no one is looking for them. Or perhaps someone IS looking for them and we just haven't found them yet.

I do agree we all have to keep open minds. It becomes easy to find resemblances where you're looking. But nothing is too small to post.
 
youshouldveknown said:
It's really not important (or any of our business, to be honest) why no one is looking for them. Or perhaps someone IS looking for them and we just haven't found them yet.

I do agree we all have to keep open minds. It becomes easy to find resemblances where you're looking. But nothing is too small to post.
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I meant that focusing on missing persons reports might not do any good at all.
 
SumterOverview.jpg



As you can see, that's Interstate 95 almost center of your screen. I've read the crime scene described different ways and this is the only thing I can find that fits. Lynches Rd, at the top right of your screen is also SC 341. And though articles call the "frontage" road Locklair, I'm assuming that it may have been simply a spelling error.
Locklear intersects St Johns Church Rd on it's northern end, which in turn dumps you onto 341 (Lynches). There is still nothing here to this day, save for two houses....old ones.
On it's southern end, Locklear intersects Douglas Swamp Rd. You see that a bridge on Douglas Swamp goes over 95,but there is no access to 95 there.

So, provided too little sleep and too much imagination haven't overloaded my wee brain......

This is it, right?
 
Mysterylover said:
Correct me if I'm wrong,
seems I remember reading the couple laid in GLASS covered coffins for a year before they were buried..
Was the KOA worker permitted to view the bodies ?
What about the Mother in Brunswick that thought the girl may have been her daughter.?.
Was these people showed several pictures and the bodies by the investigators or possibly just one picture and that was it??
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I believe you're right about the coffins. I recall it being said in an article that the very purpose was so people could view and possibly it would lead to identifying them. Good questions you've got but I don't remember reading anything that indicated the actual bodies, in the coffins, were viewed by KOA guy or the Brunswick mother. This leaves gaps in info that I'd be interested in knowing too.
 
snipped by me
justthinkin said:
Snowme,
Can you think of any reason why the autopsies were never released or why the male victim's teeth were extracted? Too many things just don't add up to suit me.
quote]

Are the autopsies not available to this day? Perhaps something within SC law regarding open cases?? I have no idea really, I would think that they wouldn't be withheld at this point.

As for Jock Doe's teeth... I have to say that when I first read your reply that was a shocker to me. I had not retained that detail from reading the forum. I had to go back and read up and sought out articles that may have made mention. This article http://www.theitem.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080809/ITNEWS01/997748564 indicates that there was a dental mark they were hoping would help track down the dentist. But then they were donated to a school (dental, I'm supposing) and (grrr) subsequently disposed of! :eek: DNA can also be extracted from within teeth. (Doubt they did that.)
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elliottness said:
Will do. This man's initials are NBF. Jock's ring had the initials JPF. Does anyone know if Bulova watches were sold in Sweden? Perhaps this could be why the serial number doesn't match any of the ones in the United States?
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I don't know if they were sold in Sweden but looking around the internet I found that altho Bulova is an American (NY) company they were crafted in Switzerland.

More on the watch, as I just discovered in this article http://www.theitem.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080809/ITNEWS01/997748564 it states that the watch was manufactured in 1974. Making it 2 years old at the time of death. The doenetwork page http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/198umsc.html for him states it was made in 1968. Making it 8 years old at the time of death. Bulova was and is still a popular watch make, the accutron was highly marketed and very popular (due to it going into space and being buried in a time capsule, etc.) but the picture of his does not strike me as being a high dollar item. I don't look at it and think "ooh, nice"... and I wouldn't have then, I don't think. (which also goes along with my scratching my head when I read descriptions of the jewelry as being expensive... everybody had silver/turquoise jewelry in those times.... and pictures of their jewelry, if taken close to the time of discovery, indicated rough, dirty, banged up jewelry... well worn. Even his ring, tho inscribed, doesn't strike me as a very valuable piece. I had a necklace with that stone... it was not worth much.)

Tho they were left with their jewelry which could help identify them possibly I think the wording that seems to have surrounded the jewelry is misleading and possibly in that regard more damaging than helpful, if you know what I mean.
 
One more thing while I'm thinking of it and here.

Since it's been leaned toward that possibly they (or he.... it's a real shame KOA guy didn't recall the girl or have a name for her! :-/) was from Canada... and seeing as the expensive dental work (which I'm now more inclined to believe may not mean much considering I don't buy their description of the jewelry) made an impression on investigators or was just the coroner? ... also there is mention on doenetwork of an appendectomy scar... I am wondering how long has the healthcare system of Canada been in place? Could it be that normal and decent quality care was available to him not necessarily because he came from wealth but because there was access, period?

I'm also curious about the scars on his back. On doe it states this: possibly an aficionado of contact sports, judging by the suggestive scars on the back of his shoulder. in reference to two 2" scars. That seems a little assuming to put in the description to me (without knowing why the person assumes these scars have anything to do with sports let alone so much to do with sports that they could leap to the idea that he was possibly an aficionado).
 
Venom Goose said:
I meant that focusing on missing persons reports might not do any good at all.
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I understand, Venom Goose. We've all been trying to reconstruct the crime with a 'whodunnit' attitude hoping that if we could discover another player that perhaps they know who these two are. With Lonnie being deceased, and obviously not being truthful when he was alive, it makes things more difficult.

Any lead is a good lead until it pans out and proves otherwise.
 
snowme said:
One more thing while I'm thinking of it and here.

Since it's been leaned toward that possibly they (or he.... it's a real shame KOA guy didn't recall the girl or have a name for her! :-/) was from Canada...
and seeing as the expensive dental work (which I'm now more inclined to believe may not mean much considering I don't buy their description of the jewelry) made an impression on investigators or was just the coroner? ...

also there is mention on doenetwork of an appendectomy scar...

I am wondering how long has the healthcare system of Canada been in place? Could it be that normal and decent quality care was available to him not necessarily because he came from wealth but because there was access, period?

I'm also curious about the scars on his back.
On doe it states this: possibly an aficionado of contact sports, judging by the suggestive scars on the back of his shoulder.
 in reference to two 2" scars.

That seems a little assuming to put in the description to me (without knowing why the person assumes these scars have anything to do with sports let alone so much to do with sports that they could leap to the idea that he was possibly an aficionado)...
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Snowme,
One of the many things I have never understood with this case is the following.

RE: KOA guy who went to a LE investigator months after the murders.
If I remember correctly, this guy was an employee of the KOA, his wife was the manager of the KOA.

He had to know a record was kept on each camper, number of campers, including name on drivers license and vehicle make and license number in the campgrounds office. In some KOA's the campers picture is taken and attached to the file.

It would have been NO problem for Branson, his wife or the Le investigator to check the KOA records for Jocks complete name, address and vehicle license number.
It's beyond my logical, common sense reasoning to think NONE of these people ever thought of something so simple..:confused:
 
snowme said:
I am wondering how long has the healthcare system of Canada been in place? Could it be that normal and decent quality care was available to him not necessarily because he came from wealth but because there was access, period?
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I know people from Canada and places like the UK who if needing /good/ medical care just go ahead and fly to places like the US or do it privately. Socialized medicine does not necessarily equal top notch health care for those who can't afford it.
 
I read that his watch was solid 14k gold. That was a top of the line Accutron not a plated or gold filled watch.. Bulova of yesteryear was not the Bulova of today. They used to be a mid-range high end watch. About what we consider a Tag Heuer or Baume Mercier now days.

I would say it is most likely from 1968 not 1974. By the 70's Accutrons with that shape case (It is referred to as a cushion shaped case) had the setting stem on the back of the watch.. Not with the stem at the 4 o’clock position like Jock’s that is 60's.

They were very popular as graduation gifts and everyone I know that has one got it as such. So There is a good chance he graduated high school or College in 1968 or 69.

I think what makes the watch look cheap to me and most likely the killer(s) is the band. Originally, that watch most likely came with a leather strap. Probably Lizard or Crocodile. What was one there when he died is a cheap replacement band. It is a Twist-O-Flex Romunda expansion band. They have a black textured center with gold or silver sides. They were very popular in the 60's and 70's. Sadly, a lot of people who got expensive watches as gifts swapped out the expensive factory band for the Twist-O-Flex bands since they were more comfortable and most people favored them.

That band would have been about $3-$6 in the late 60's or early 70's. They are still made now and retail for about $18 and a band comparable to what the watch would have left the factory with would be 2-3 times as much.

Sorry about the long post, but I am a watch nut and I just had to add my 2 cents.
 
Shutterfly said:
SumterOverview.jpg



As you can see, that's Interstate 95 almost center of your screen. I've read the crime scene described different ways and this is the only thing I can find that fits. Lynches Rd, at the top right of your screen is also SC 341. And though articles call the "frontage" road Locklair, I'm assuming that it may have been simply a spelling error.
Locklear intersects St Johns Church Rd on it's northern end, which in turn dumps you onto 341 (Lynches). There is still nothing here to this day, save for two houses....old ones.
On it's southern end, Locklear intersects Douglas Swamp Rd. You see that a bridge on Douglas Swamp goes over 95,but there is no access to 95 there.

So, provided too little sleep and too much imagination haven't overloaded my wee brain......

This is it, right?
Click to expand...

That's it. You found it!
 
Have you tried contacting her, elliottness? Unfortunately, I don't see a way to confirm, unless we send her a reconstruction to show her mother... either way, this is a really nice lead here.

I'm still super pissed that the KOA guy can't recall if he had an accent or not. This, at first, makes me think Canada, since there are very slight differences in the dialect. BUT, if he was from Scotland and travelled a great deal, the accent could have been hidden, especially in a loud atmosphere.

Great job elliottness!
 
Fukiyama, glad to have you on board!

Mark, thanks for your input & welcome to WS!
 
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