Kyron's parents' statements, interviews

Sadly, it is no different from any other case, as far as defense attorneys not wanting to know if client is guilty...that is not the point apparently.

I don't know if her lawyer asked her, back in late June, if it was possible for her to bring Kyron home safely, or not. That question would have been reasonable to ask, I think, since a child's life was at stake. But I doubt she would answer in any way that would indicate responsibility, and so the lawyer just goes on from there, trying to make sure her rights are not violated. I would like to think he at least asked her that much.

Maybe, one day, LE will manage to garner a conviction and get some measure of justice for Kyron, but I just feel as though he will never be found. He is so tiny and she will never help, if she did this, and I don't think more than one person knows where he is.

cluciano63 said:

Sadly, it is no different from any other case, as far as defense attorneys not wanting to know if client is guilty...that is not the point apparently.

I don't know if her lawyer asked her, back in late June, if it was possible for her to bring Kyron home safely, or not. That question would have been reasonable to ask, I think, since a child's life was at stake. But I doubt she would answer in any way that would indicate responsibility, and so the lawyer just goes on from there, trying to make sure her rights are not violated. I would like to think he at least asked her that much.

Maybe, one day, LE will manage to garner a conviction and get some measure of justice for Kyron, but I just feel as though he will never be found. He is so tiny and she will never help, if she did this, and I don't think more than one person knows where he is.

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Hi Clu, It is what we first learned about him, his concern only being to protect the rights of his client who pays him for his service. He is a dynamo, wiley and the best in his field. And he knows well how to go about protecting his client.

If there will ever be Justice for Kyron, and it is his step mother who masterminded his disappearance, the rights of the victim will rest soley on the prosecution. They will have to have a pat case along with great heart in which they will spell it out, pitting the innocence of the victim against the staunch determination of the perpetrator, in proving that opportunity, means and motive were elemental and fitting in the crime. IMO

Let it be the reason the people are represented by the State, to do some good in protecting those who are so taken advantage of. xox

I once read an essay by F. Lee Baily which may have been an excerpt from his book called "The Defense Never Rests." In the essay, he explained that most defense lawyers do not ask their clients whether or not they're guilty, and in fact will often try to stop a client from admitting guilt in so many words, even privately just to the lawyer. This is a part of the defense attorney's job in making sure that the defendant receives a fair trail.

I don't think we can single out any one defense attorney and say that he or she is cruel or cold-hearted toward the victim for practicing the law in this way. Even though we don't like it, it's how the job works. Society has chosen and built a justice system that's based on adversarial relationships. As the old saying goes, defending vile criminals is a tough job, but someone's got to do it.

This is likely why defense lawyers as a group are very unpopular. Them and the IRS agents.

I understand the job description of the defense...I did think, however, and I might be wrong, that there was some sort of "gray area" when a kidnapping has taken place and the person might still be alive...which is why I wished/hoped he would at least phrase a question such as "is there anything that you can do to bring Kyron home?" for example...that would not be asking her if she was guilty, per se. And if she says "no", he could satisfy his conscious I suppose...when he says "my client knows nothing about the disappearance. etc..."

DreamyEye said:

I once read an essay by F. Lee Baily which may have been an excerpt from his book called "The Defense Never Rests." In the essay, he explained that most defense lawyers do not ask their clients whether or not they're guilty, and in fact will often try to stop a client from admitting guilt in so many words, even privately just to the lawyer. This is a part of the defense attorney's job in making sure that the defendant receives a fair trail.

I don't think we can single out any one defense attorney and say that he or she is cruel or cold-hearted toward the victim for practicing the law in this way. Even though we don't like it, it's how the job works. Society has chosen and built a justice system that's based on adversarial relationships. As the old saying goes, defending vile criminals is a tough job, but someone's got to do it.


PS: I think F Lee is or has been a member here, at least during the Scott Peterson case.

This is likely why defense lawyers as a group are very unpopular. Them and the IRS agents.

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From what I have read here in forum after forum is that a defense attny doesn't want to be told by the client that they are guilty if that is the case. That raises different issues altogether, as if the client tells him/her they did the crime the lawyer is gong to be breaching their ethics to represent the client as innocent when they know that is not true. I am not sure, but think their fiduciary relationship with their client and the truth demanded by the court might be in conflict at that point.

I have read that many lawyers will not represent a client who has told them of their guilt in a crime. And that is why what we read about Hauzer right off the bat was that their guilt or innocence mattered little to him. It would not even play on his mind, the only concern being they had fair representation in court, making sure their rights as a citizen were upheld.

I will go back to the beginning posts about this lawyer which I read, and which gave me the feeling about him that I say here.

In my mind, I don't think he so much unconcerning as to the victim's rights. But rather that his focus is on making sure the rights of the accused are protected above all as that is who has paid for his services. If that is his concern, it only stands to say his primary concern is not discovery of the truth in the case.

And that may be the mantra for most all defense attny's. But there are few of these professionals who have the sterling reputation for success in protecting the rights of their clients where the question of their guilt or innocence is never questioned as a condition of being defended. IMO

I suspect that in order to do a good job, a defence lawyer must have great confidence in the process of justice as it is carried out in this country to discover the truth and dispense justice.

Their job is akin to some parts of drug testing. A good drug researcher isn't just testing to see if a drug will do what they hope it will, they are also equally testing to see if the drug is useless or actively harmful.

Without someone (many someones) being willing to disprove, science would not advance.

Nor would law.

I understand about the gray area and it makes sense, though I think in many high power firms, the lawyer who encourages the suspect to cooperate in the investigation would be replaced with a "fresh" lawyer if the suspect becomes a defendent.

Another thing I've heard said of lawyers is that they don't ask about guilt or innocence because they know most of their clients are liars and cheaters and wouldn't tell the truth anyway. I guess that's the bottom line about TH. If she is responsible for whatever happened to Kyron and hasn't revealed anything so far, I don't think it matters much if her lawyer is a knight/truthseeker in shining armor. Sadly, in a case this extreme, whoever did this degree of evil is probably beyond reach morally.

Just a note to say that the dynamic that has been described over the last several posts is also the one that protects any and all of us from being tossed in prison and presumed guilty. While we may not like his client, and while many feel she is responsible for Kyron's disappearance, TH's atorney is doing exactly what he is supposed to do: defend his client. The government has prosecutors at the local, state and federal levels; local and state police; federal investigators as well as information databases, wiretaping and surveillance capacity, forensics experts, and access to a grand jury system to enhance investigation, all paid for by the public.

The accused (or about to be accused) has either a public defender (say hello to a life sentence) or a private attorney, who can only call on those resources a client can pay for. It's a giant imbalance, but all that keeps us from a police state.

It is clear that both the faint hope that Kyron is alive and our horror at what has happened to him and his family leads to outrage at defense tactics. If TH could deliver Kyron alive and well, her attorney would be the first person to arrange a meeting, to trade that information for a plea bargain of some sort. A living Kyron would mean no life sentence or death penalty. That there has been no such negotiation indicates that either it is too late for that (as I sadly think) or that she in fact did not kidnap Kyron. If she is innocent, well, her attorney stands between her and unjust imprisonment. If she is guilty, he is the vehicle that allows the state to accuse her, convict her, and punish her fairly--that allows her (and by extension the rest of us) to argue her version of the story, to present evidence in response to the state. My favorite example is the OJ trial, a real miscarriage of justice, for sure-- and not entirely because of the Dream Team. But by the end, sensible people knew what had happened to
the victims and it was clear that sloppy police work and poor performance from the prosecutors (and a star-struck judge) lost the case. As always, it will be a solid investigation and prosecution that will lead to justice for Kyron.

Pensfan, do you have enough detail to find the KGW video of Desiree talking about the truck and Kyron? That link you provided so recently is not working now and the search enging at the station does not bring up this raw video. But maybe you have more information on it, like the date it was recorded for e.g. Thanks. I do remember Desiree talking about this in the fall but even at the time, it was hard to catch every word she said.

At this point does anyone think that anything short of finding Kyron would lead to TH's arrest? It's depressing to think about but given the amount of time that has expired the evidence is more than likely purely circumstantial, IMO. If you were a DA, would you want to tackle this case with anything less? I know searches are costly and demand serious prep beforehand, but I am kind of baffled that there aren't more of them.

Michael25 said:

At this point does anyone think that anything short of finding Kyron would lead to TH's arrest? It's depressing to think about but given the amount of time that has expired the evidence is more than likely purely circumstantial, IMO. If you were a DA, would you want to tackle this case with anything less? I know searches are costly and demand serious prep beforehand, but I am kind of baffled that there aren't more of them.

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"No body" homicide cases have been brought successfully in many jurisdictions. I can't think of a single prosecution for anything less that could not produce the victim. I mean, for example, I can't think of any cases where someone was prosecuted for kidnapping without the fate of the victim being known.

My hunch is that while there's lots of suspicion (and reasons to suspect), there's not enough solid evidence, circumstantial or physical, to support charges. For anything! The MFH case must have serious problems or LE would not have attempted the sting and TMH would be sitting in jail right now.

From what is publicly known of this case, if I were a juror, I could not vote to convict. There isn't enough information publicly available to convince me beyond a reasonable doubt.

Since charges have not been filed, I believe that LE does not yet have enough evidence.

Even LE says as recently as this month that there is no evidence that Kyron is not alive, so something would have to change to bring murder charges-like finding Kyron.

I'm having trouble seeing even kidnapping charges, just based on being the last person known to be with him.

I just don't know what LE will do, obviously. But if Kyron isn't found, questions will never be answered.

I agree with you about a lot you said Scampi, (quote not working).

This is my opinion.

Mr. Houze doesn't even care about TH. What he does care about is publicity. There is a reason Mr. Houze takes high profile cases and it's not 'solely' to protect the rights of his clients.

There is one thing I have to say. I don't have proof if TH did anything to KH. I have my suspicions, (like everyone else) but I have no idea if she actually did anything to him.

What TH is guilty of is far worse than that. Terri Horman stole the innocence of an entire community. That I can prove. Regardless of whether she took the little boy or not. Regardless if she hurt the little boy or not. TH is now responsible for what she did to an entire community.

For years to come, cameras will invade the privacy of those children and their teachers because one person didn't have the courage or the morals to do what's right, tell the truth. This community will never be the same.

Parents will forever change the way they supervise and protect their children because of one person. The impact is devastating.

It wasn't only that a little child was taken from a school that makes me angry. It was that nobody could get a straight answer from the last person that saw him alive. A person that could really help the investigation. A person that seemed "oblivious" to what was going on around her. Not because of a mental deficiency, but because of a lack of morals and decency. His own step mother. Too top it all off she hired the best representation money could buy. Why? because TH's rights may be violated. Even though TH tarnished the rights of the community where she lived for generations to come, it's her rights that are more important. That's what bothers me.

To get assigned a case is one thing. Too choose a case is another.

I wonder how many peoples lives have changed because of this case? Especially people that live in the area?

Ever since I was a child I was taught right from wrong. Unlike a lot of parents though, my parents actually tried to guide my sister and I by being great examples. My father took responsibility for everything, that went wrong. It was always his fault. When the school called my parents, my father would come to the school, and apologize. It was his fault that I got sent to the office, not mine. He would just look at me and shake his head, not even say a word. Worst punishment in the world. By the time I was a teenager, I was doing the same thing. I took responsibility at work and at school for my own mistakes, and since then I always have.

I guess the point I'm getting at is, where is this? Why don't I see this? Have we become so ignorant to what is right and what is wrong, that now doing what is right simply means that we have not broken any laws?

I loved the comment about the only thing that seperates us from a security state. I wonder how the children at skyline feel about big brother watching them? They may be to young to know what they just lost. You know if one person told the truth there probably wouldn't be any cameras in the school. Why? Because LE would have gotten what they needed without the use of cameras.

Are these cameras being recorded? Who has access to them? Is there a [no] zoom feature that would help alleviate some of the concern I have of the cameras being used inappropriately? These are some of the concerns I have. Not is TH's rights being adhered to.

As for Mr. Houze he's just as bad as TH. Morals are thrown out the window, but as long as we follow the law, everything is fine and nobody can get punished.

Bottom line is when the rights of the accused out weigh the rights of the victim, and in this case victims. We have a problem.

I don't think Kyron's law should have been about getting cameras in the school, and trampling on children's civil liberties to protect the school and students from crime. I think that it should be something along the lines of, "when someone does something morally reprehensible, they should be punished". It's getting pretty sad when some of the defendants know just as much about law as their attorneys. I wish there was a blanket law that covered all the cracks that defendants fall through, and a lot of the time re-offend.

I'm sorry about the long post.

Tuba said:

Pensfan, do you have enough detail to find the KGW video of Desiree talking about the truck and Kyron? That link you provided so recently is not working now and the search enging at the station does not bring up this raw video. But maybe you have more information on it, like the date it was recorded for e.g. Thanks. I do remember Desiree talking about this in the fall but even at the time, it was hard to catch every word she said.

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Tuba, I was able to locate it by playing around with the link a little bit. Here ya go sugar:
http://www.kgw.com/video/raw/Kaine-...-kyron-horman-missing-portland-101688128.html

~*~ Please note: This video starts around 13:25 & plays backward with the time left (in such a way as to count down). For your convenience, you should start at -2:50, which is the exact moment the interviewer brings up the "truck" question. ~*~

On another note, I sure hope everyone had a beautiful holiday and will have a bright, safe & funfilled New Year! Hugs & kisses to all!

Thanks for the video link, Jersey Girl.

It took about five or more minutes to load, so patience is necessary. At first I thought it was a dead link, but I went on to something else, leaving the screen open, then I noticed it appeared to be loading very slowly - the bar at the bottom of the video was gradually getting darker. Finally, it played all by itself!

The talk about the truck (near the end) is quite vague. :waitasec:

aksleuth said:

Thanks for the video link, Jersey Girl.

It took about five or more minutes to load, so patience is necessary. At first I thought it was a dead link, but I went on to something else, leaving the screen open, then I noticed it appeared to be loading very slowly - the bar at the bottom of the video was gradually getting darker. Finally, it played all by itself!

The talk about the truck (near the end) is quite vague. :waitasec:

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Hi AK! Mine loaded right away, but I did just have my computer thoroughly cleaned & more memory added, not sure if that made a difference. I agree with you regarding it being quite "vague". I'm tending to think there are certain things Ky's parents are allowed to speak of freely vs other data they are asked not to widely divulge. I do believe if this becomes a cold case in the future, there will be nothing holding the parents back from speaking freely to an open public - with or without le consent.

One thing I find quite odd is the fact that there are sooo many offenders that live in their immediate area, yet they have "swingers" clubs...and even around the time Kyron disappeared, Portland had their stupid disgusting nudie parade. I mean, are you flipping kidding me? I wonder how many sex offenders and deviants participated in that parade. I wonder if the children are told to stay inside for the full duration of this parade. How can anyone literally have that right to march naked in a parade in a town that others pay taxes in and might not agree with having such a thing in their town? I'd surely throw a fit! I certainly don't have a problem with nudists, but to partake in such a thing in the middle of a flipping town is absolutely despicable to me. To do such a thing legally makes it even more sick. Then again, the mayor...and all that...um yeah...such a shame.

It may have taken ages to load on my computer because I was also loading a 45-minute TV show. That could have slowed everything down. Plus this computer can be temperamental at the most inopportune times.

Nudie parade? Yikes! We don't even have those here and we have LOTS of parades. Or maybe I just haven't been to any? :waitasec:

I'm just sick that so many children has "disappeared" and have been missing for so long...... Too many to name. Not to mention the adult family members who won't come clean in many cases. :furious:

Jersey*Girl said:

Hi AK! Mine loaded right away, but I did just have my computer thoroughly cleaned & more memory added, not sure if that made a difference. I agree with you regarding it being quite "vague". I'm tending to think there are certain things Ky's parents are allowed to speak of freely vs other data they are asked not to widely divulge. I do believe if this becomes a cold case in the future, there will be nothing holding the parents back from speaking freely to an open public - with or without le consent.

One thing I find quite odd is the fact that there are sooo many offenders that live in their immediate area, yet they have "swingers" clubs...and even around the time Kyron disappeared, Portland had their stupid disgusting nudie parade. I mean, are you flipping kidding me? I wonder how many sex offenders and deviants participated in that parade. I wonder if the children are told to stay inside for the full duration of this parade. How can anyone literally have that right to march naked in a parade in a town that others pay taxes in and might not agree with having such a thing in their town? I'd surely throw a fit! I certainly don't have a problem with nudists, but to partake in such a thing in the middle of a flipping town is absolutely despicable to me. To do such a thing legally makes it even more sick. Then again, the mayor...and all that...um yeah...such a shame.

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aksleuth said:

It may have taken ages to load on my computer because I was also loading a 45-minute TV show. That could have slowed everything down. Plus this computer can be temperamental at the most inopportune times.

Nudie parade? Yikes! We don't even have those here and we have LOTS of parades. Or maybe I just haven't been to any? :waitasec:

I'm just sick that so many children has "disappeared" and have been missing for so long...... Too many to name. Not to mention the adult family members who won't come clean in many cases. :furious:

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AK, for some reason the edit isn't showing up. I just checked my notes for a link but I was actually wrong about the parade - instead it's a NUDE BIKE RIDE!

Tricia, this is a legal nude bike ride. Here's the link bc I find it an absolute tragedy that this is even legal, especially considering people pay taxes & there's so many sex offenders & drug traffickers there. This is not considered *advertiser censored*, so I'm assuming that it's perfectly fine to include the link as I do find it interesting with the crime in that area and this being legal. If you don;t think the link should be included, please feel free to delete. What I want people to think about is this: There are multiple sex offenders and abductions taking place in that area year after year. There are already 2 legal "swinging" clubs, as well as strip joints. There's also a nudist camp or two. Crime is off the hook in their area. How in the world could they legitimately make it legal to have a nude bike ride in the city of Portland? How? I wonder when this bike ride started. Was it many years ago? Does it always take place in June? How does it influence the youth that reside there? Are the residents informed to stay inside and close their shades if they don't agree with this, or if they don't wish for their children to be subject to such an endeavor? If we as a nation live in a soceity that is governed by our congress and sets laws that put people on sex offender registries just by flashing somebody or mooning somebody - then how can it be legal to allow this type of mass bodily freedom of speech, especially when it infringes on our innocent children's rights? (run-on sentence, I know) How in the world is this legal? What idiot found a loophole to make this happen?

If the authorities can allow this to happen, and if they don;t strictly monitor every single person that partakes in this nude bike ride, then how can we believe that they are thoroughly investigating the disappearance of Kyron? While I am of the opinion that the culprit is his stepmother, other's disagree... I think something everyone could agree on if looking into this is the fact that there could be multiple sex offenders in this bike ride that would go unnoticed. To me that's just flat out crazy. Everybody knows the law for the most part. If you're an offender on the registry, then you can't occupy an online communication site, you can't deviate from what the judge allows you, sometimes you can't even go to a local bar, you're never allowed around children, the list goes on & on. We all know by looking at these cases here alone on Websleuths that alot of these offenders don;t listen. They do what they want. A prime example is those Skelton boys' mother - the law KNOWS she has a MySpace and Facebook account, as well as others. So why hasn't she been fined yet? I understand the big picture & all but what's right is right & the law is in black & white. Ok, her boys are missing. Fact remains she's still a sex offender that was online and should be penalized for doing so. Why do these people get away with this stuff? I understand she's a victim right now, but she's still a perpetrator plain & simple. She knows what she's allowed to do vs what she's not allowed to do. She should be in trouble for those online accounts, no ifs ans or buts about it. Having said all of this, and that's just one example, considering that an estimated 13,000 nudists took part in this bike ride - I can only wonder how many were sex offenders. Again, I have no problem with nudists, I just think it shouldn't be in the public. If they want to take a darn bike rude, then do so at the nude camp ground and make sure it has high walls surrounding it so innocent children's eyes are blocked from it.

Here's the link, Tricia:
http://bikeportland.org/2010/06/20/an-estimated-13000-take-part-in-portlands-naked-bike-ride-35332

It looks like the bike ride takes place at nighttime in downtown Portland. You don't have to take your children to watch it; just stay at home. It seems like it wouldn't be too difficult to miss. I also don't see what the big deal is about strip clubs and swinger clubs. Everyone involved in them is 18+.

eileenhawkeye said:

It looks like the bike ride takes place at nighttime in downtown Portland. You don't have to take your children to watch it; just stay at home. It seems like it wouldn't be too difficult to miss. I also don't see what the big deal is about strip clubs and swinger clubs. Everyone involved in them is 18+.

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Yes, the ride takes place at night, however I never said children would be "taken" there. If you research the path, I'm certain that families live along some of the path where the bikers ride. I personally believe it would infringe on my rights as a mother & tax paying citizen to have to pull down my shade so my children didn't witness this. I definitely don't have a problem with any strip clubs or nude camps at all - not even in the least, to each their own but it's not for me. What I do have a problem with, and this is the point I was making, which I think you may have missed, is the fact that there are multiple offenders that live in that area, let alone people that come to participate from other areas or states, that very well could be offenders. All you basically have to do is show up with your bike to ride. That's the point I'm trying to make. While I believe the company that sponsors this is doing so for a good purpose, it could very well have adverse consequences. This nude bike ride is being done under the guise of a "protest". Since it's a protest, it makes it legal in the city of Portland OR. Again, please think about the point I was trying to make - sex offenders. I wonder how many offenders were drawn to this event. It's scary to even think about it.

Here's a few more links from the company organizing it:
http://www.shift2bikes.org/wnbr/min.php
http://www.shift2bikes.org/wiki/pedalpalooza:dance_party:your_first
http://www.shift2bikes.org/wiki/pedalpalooza:dance_party:the_law

Again, ok so it sounds like harmless fun, but I wonder how many offenders took place in this event. One can only wonder.

PS - The path was a little over 7 miles.