NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #13

Whiskers16 said:

I have wondered, what if the purpose of the trip was to get an abortion? Maybe the death in the family excuse was just a cover for that. I haven't thought it through much beyond that though.

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I wondered about this a while back. But -- this service would likely be available near the U-MASS campus.

JMHO YMMV LRR

ted and want to help (which is true for most of us), the whole thing happening as part of a TV broadcast made me a bit squirmy. And the setting of that interview was horribly intimidating--was that on purpose? When someone listening in said something like "Look how tense her body is!" I yelled at the TV "She's fat and she's sitting on a lousy motel bed! We've all been there! Get the poor soul a frickin' chair!"

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Exactly what I was thinking. They couldn't have pulled over a couple of chairs? I did wonder if she was high based on her very odd behavior. I also wondered if she was disassociating when she'd pause and stare to the right. For whatever reason it seemed like she was having difficulty keeping up with the conversation. I felt bad for her regardless.

Whiskers16 said:

I have wondered, what if the purpose of the trip was to get an abortion? Maybe the death in the family excuse was just a cover for that. I haven't thought it through much beyond that though.

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That has been part of my theory - I posted it upthread somewhere. In my scenario she has made plans to go up to the mountains to think and decide to keep the baby or not and possibly meet up with the father. Fred has given her $4000 which would be a lot for just that, but could help her living expenses if she decided not to return for a while. And while it's not necessary to go out of state for the procedure, they may have wanted to do so for privacy.

Just my own baseless speculation - well there was the computer searching re pregnancy and yes, being a nursing student it's not unusual anyway.

I think the pregnancy searches were explained last night by her classmate - she was doing them for an assignment. I don't think she was pregnant and I'm surprised Renner still hangs on to that theory. Unless he knows something that we don't.

I do think he had good points about her getting into a stranger's car vs someone she knew. I think he's probably correct.

I think Kathleen is still hiding many things. I think she knows where Maura is, alive and well.

If Maura is alive and well (and we don't know), it would be nice if she's throw up the white flag so that all of the time and resources devoted to her case could be redirected to other missing persons. It almost makes me doubt that she is alive....now with a TV show, etc....you'd think she'd give in.

Running away and starting a new life requires hefty resources. She would almost definitely need assistance to do this, at least to get established with the basics (proper identification; housing etc).

Certainly the financial support of someone else would be a must, as I really don't believe her family has any idea what happened here.

It then simply becomes a question of why? Other than your life being in danger I don't really understand a move like this. Look at someone like Whitey Bulger, he had tons of money and resources to do this and even he was caught while living a life on the run. Even if she was pregnant and not wanting to have a life with the father...There's proper channels to go through to make that happen, ones that don't require living under an assumed identity.

I don't think the average person could put their father and family through a life of uncertainty and anguish. Nor would they let their mother die alone without any certainty if you are alive or not. That takes a really cold, callous person and I don't feel most people would lack the empathy to do that. Unless she truly is a sociopath.

While I think Renner made a good argument for her getting into a friend's car, I just don't think she's run off. Unless a predator saw her somewhere else and was following her I just don't see her abduction as plausible either. SMH. I don't get it at all. The only other reasonable option is she wandered into the woods and her body just hasn't been found.

What do you all think of the whimpering phone call to Bill?

Fred comes off as guilt ridden to me, but I think it's normal. Maybe Maura vanished before they could make up from an argument. Maybe he feels bad it took so long to get her a reliable car. I'd imagine parents are consumed with guilt about innocent things. I feel terribly sorry for him.

I feel very strongly that Maura is not out there living her life, and not telling her family. Could she be? Yes, of course, but the odds of that are very low, and as Caffeine said, she'd have to be a sociopath, on top of everything else. I think that James Renner's assertion that she left pregnant and running from all of the men in her life, is self-serving and dramatic. Self-serving in the sense that it is likely to get some attention for him and his blog. There is absolutely no evidence of a pregnancy, or that she is still alive out there. He has a habit, in his blogs, of picking a suspect, dirtying their name, and then moving on to a new suspect, and those suspects are typically someone who has refused to answer his prying questions. Like everyone else here, I'd love to know what happened to Maura, but I don't think that she'll be found under an assumed identity somewhere.

I think she went up north to harm herself
1. She packed up her room. I think she was trying to be thoughtful of those who would later have to clean out her room.
2. She was adamant on returning some scrubs she had borrowed even though the person told her she didn’t have to. She knew she wasn’t coming back so she wanted to make sure they were returned.
3. She left a letter about her boyfriend cheating on her on top of her packed boxes in her room. I think this was her way of explaining to people why she harmed herself.
4. She cleaned out her bank account.


However, I don’t think she got a chance to do herself in. I think she ran down the road after the crash and at some point ran into the woods and ended up dying there. The combo of alcohol and a possible head injury from the crash could’ve severely impaired her thinking.

RubyJuno said:

It also made me think about the secrets that families and other close groups keep (many of which are about alcohol use). After a while, there are many things that simply aren't said. You get a lot of "You know how that Bob is!" or other shorthand. You even start to lie to yourself, to forget the messier details that don't fit with the narrative you want.

From having read about the case before and from what I've seen so far, I don't feel suspicious of the Murrays. I do think they're covering up a lot of things--but not necessarily things that are directly related to the disappearance. It seems like Kathleen has many sorrows. I felt sorry that she was being compelled to talk about the case; even as I'm fascinated and want to help (which is true for most of us), the whole thing happening as part of a TV broadcast made me a bit squirmy. And the setting of that interview was horribly intimidating--was that on purpose? When someone listening in said something like "Look how tense her body is!" I yelled at the TV...Get the poor soul a frickin' chair!"

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RSBM

I agree; I'm not sure why they decided to do the interview in that hotel room when they've found other locations for others. At a minimum they could have brought in a couple of chairs so she could sit comfortably. She looked shocked and startled a lot, and it was hard to tell how much of that was due to the way the interview was edited and how much it was just that she was very uncomfortable. I think there's more than she was saying going on with her that made Maura upset, but I also think she has a right to some privacy. I came away convinced that Maura's tears really did have to do with her sister. Maybe Maura intended to go see her sister after clearing her head for a couple days in New Hampshire and really did see her sister's situation as a family emergency. Maybe it was one more stressor, but I don't think the call was directly related to her disappearance.

I think the reason for the hotel room was to perhaps have the best surveillance possible for her in order to watch her from different angles, clearly hear her speak and have the ability to communicate with Maggie to relay questions if need be.

A crowded café with a bunch of background noise probably wouldn't have worked with what they were trying to accomplish here. I'm guessing Kathleen did not want to do this at her home, so this was probably the next best alterative.

I think they were particularly interested in her body language, facial expressions, phrasing of answers so they wanted a clear way to analyze that without distraction.

It was kind of weird and uncomfortable to watch that but I can understand their goal here: Kathleen could very well be withholding information big or small that might be relevant to Maura's disappearance. She may not even realize it. The phone conversation that lead Maura to tears might be important or it might not be, but it needs to be looked at it needs to be established as best as possible that Kathleen has been truthful and forthcoming with everything she knows.

FWIW, I don't think Kathleen is hiding anything per say, but I think in a sense she is very careful with what she says, trying to strike a balance of answering questions about Maura and maintaining some privacy and not portraying her in any sort of negative light. While I respect and understand that, naturally you still wondering if there is some small piece of the puzzle that she is holding back.

I had a thought today that maybe the searches on Maura's computer about the effect of alcohol on a developing fetus might have been because her sister was pregnant, not because Maura was pregnant. Maybe her sister had just learned that she was pregnant and Maura knew she was drinking heavily, or maybe her sister got the results of an ultrasound that indicated she had an unhealthy fetus...that kind of thing could make a sister very upset.


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Skigirl said:

I had a thought today that maybe the searches on Maura's computer about the effect of alcohol on a developing fetus might have been because her sister was pregnant, not because Maura was pregnant. Maybe her sister had just learned that she was pregnant and Maura knew she was drinking heavily, or maybe her sister got the results of an ultrasound that indicated she had an unhealthy fetus...that kind of thing could make a sister very upset.


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I had that same exact thought while watching the episode today (didn't have time this weekend).

I agree with you

SassyBenton said:

I think she went up north to harm herself
1. She packed up her room. I think she was trying to be thoughtful of those who would later have to clean out her room.
2. She was adamant on returning some scrubs she had borrowed even though the person told her she didn’t have to. She knew she wasn’t coming back so she wanted to make sure they were returned.
3. She left a letter about her boyfriend cheating on her on top of her packed boxes in her room. I think this was her way of explaining to people why she harmed herself.
4. She cleaned out her bank account.


However, I don’t think she got a chance to do herself in. I think she ran down the road after the crash and at some point ran into the woods and ended up dying there. The combo of alcohol and a possible head injury from the crash could’ve severely impaired her thinking.

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That was the MOST bizarre interview I may have ever watched. I finally watched the episode last night and couldn't believe how Maura's older sister behaved. Is she looking for attention acting like this? Is there something mentally wrong with her? (not being that to be mean at all, just seriously there may be) How can you not remember ever detail on the last conversation you had with your little sister before she went missing. Something is not sitting right with me regarding her older sister. Its almost like its a game to her. This is serious. Why the pauses and crazy faces during the interview. Did her ex husband harm Maura? Does she know more about Maura's disappearance then she is saying? it sure seems like she knows more than she is saying, and that is crazy that she would not be helpful in voluntarily giving information to help find her missing sister.
She claims she is very close to her sister than a minute later contradicts that saying she doesn't know what can be upsetting Maura. She painted out Maura in the beginning as she is always happy and everything is rainbows and butterflies. I do see where you all are getting the theory that perhaps the older sister was pregnant and she was drinking a lot at the time although the friend from college did state they had a maternity assignment.
It is clear more than ever that Maura was under a lot of pressure from her family to be perfect and she made a lot of poor choices leading up to her disappearance and life was perhaps getting too hard for her.

My theory still remains at this point that she was depressed at this point in her life and nothing was going right. She took off either with the intent to harm herself or the intent to go away for the weekend. The end result was the same I believe, she ended up dead. My boyfriend is still dumbfounded that her body has not yet been located if she died by the woods all these years. Did Billy ever get physical with Maura? Why lie about talking about marriage etc. when clearly he cheated on her and this upset her. To be frank, I understand with all going on it Maura's life wanting to disappear or go away for a little while but I think its a stretch for her to accomplish being alive and living under the radar all these years.

My theory (ever changing), MM discussed her sisters addictions & relapses & was upset bc of. Add to this her own troubles with the law & accident in Fred’s car, pressures of nursing school, issues w/Bill and she broke. She left campus, thinking of either hurting herself (returned item to friend after she told her no rush) or just getting away to her place of peace..(white mountains). She didn’t intend or think of her car issues, but she had car trouble and exited onto 112, prior to this, stopping for what would be her final fill up at a gas station( her tank was almost full when car wrecked) and it was then that she put the rag in the tailpipe bc Fred taught her this. Once on 112, she sputters out due to the rag solution simply not working....loses control of car into the snow bank. Bus driver comes along asks if she needs help, due to her drinking she lies and says no do not call bc AAA is in route. Bus driver, (former police officer), insists he is going to go inside and call police & fire dept for help and according to reports made by him, she simply said “just go”...this to me, sounds like she was upset that now she would have to flee...she gathers her most imp items & takes off running...I believe she was stopped by someone with bad intentions at this point...a neighbor, my guess is Forcier needs to be looked into further...his house was just up that road & somebody knows something. JMO

Poor Kathleen, she just seemed internally tormented during the interview...my heart was hurting for her. She started off portraying the childhood, family etc; as idyllic, yet by all accounts their mother committed adultery and a divorce ensued. Not judging, I believe EVERY family experiences crisis at some point or another. It just seemed she was trying so hard to convey life was perfect!!!! Why?
Is she covering up for her father? Trying to cover up her own issues with alcohol? Her own shame and guilt over "whatever". I found it puzzling that even though she and Maura were supposedly so close she didn't know much about Maura's stealing at Fort Knox and her subsequent dismissal at West Point. WHAT?
She seemed to be on something during the interview. Poor woman, who knows. But I really believe she knows more. Why she is with holding is anyone's guess.

Sherri said:

My theory (ever changing), MM discussed her sisters addictions & relapses & was upset bc of. Add to this her own troubles with the law & accident in Fred’s car, pressures of nursing school, issues w/Bill and she broke. She left campus, thinking of either hurting herself (returned item to friend after she told her no rush) or just getting away to her place of peace..(white mountains). She didn’t intend or think of her car issues, but she had car trouble and exited onto 112, prior to this, stopping for what would be her final fill up at a gas station( her tank was almost full when car wrecked) and it was then that she put the rag in the tailpipe bc Fred taught her this. Once on 112, she sputters out due to the rag solution simply not working....loses control of car into the snow bank. Bus driver comes along asks if she needs help, due to her drinking she lies and says no do not call bc AAA is in route. Bus driver, (former police officer), insists he is going to go inside and call police & fire dept for help and according to reports made by him, she simply said “just go”...this to me, sounds like she was upset that now she would have to flee...she gathers her most imp items & takes off running...I believe she was stopped by someone with bad intentions at this point...a neighbor, my guess is Forcier needs to be looked into further...his house was just up that road & somebody knows something. JMO

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The idea of her gathering some things and taking off running just doesn't make any sense. She had to have known that she wouldn't get very far on foot in the cold dead-of-winter night, especially with alcohol in her system. It's not like there was a bus or train station up the road. Remember, too, what Renner said about the "lighthouse effect" (my words). None of the neighbors would have taken their eyes off her for very long (a few seconds) but within approximately seven minutes she was gone. The idea of someone following her in another car is very plausible. That person, obviously, would have seen that she wrecked, turned off their headlights and picked her up. I'm not convinced she's dead.

Kittycat01 said:

Poor Kathleen, she just seemed internally tormented during the interview...my heart was hurting for her. She started off portraying the childhood, family etc; as idyllic, yet by all accounts their mother committed adultery and a divorce ensued. Not judging, I believe EVERY family experiences crisis at some point or another. It just seemed she was trying so hard to convey life was perfect!!!! Why?
Is she covering up for her father? Trying to cover up her own issues with alcohol? Her own shame and guilt over "whatever". I found it puzzling that even though she and Maura were supposedly so close she didn't know much about Maura's stealing at Fort Knox and her subsequent dismissal at West Point. WHAT?
She seemed to be on something during the interview. Poor woman, who knows. But I really believe she knows more. Why she is with holding is anyone's guess.

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I also think she knows more about why Maura left and I think the telephone conversation is one of the keys. There were a lot of things going on in Maura's life but it looks as though the conversation is what put her over the edge and into her car for that maybe fateful drive.

Kittycat01 said:

Poor Kathleen, she just seemed internally tormented during the interview...my heart was hurting for her. She started off portraying the childhood, family etc; as idyllic, yet by all accounts their mother committed adultery and a divorce ensued. Not judging, I believe EVERY family experiences crisis at some point or another. It just seemed she was trying so hard to convey life was perfect!!!! Why?
Is she covering up for her father? Trying to cover up her own issues with alcohol? Her own shame and guilt over "whatever". I found it puzzling that even though she and Maura were supposedly so close she didn't know much about Maura's stealing at Fort Knox and her subsequent dismissal at West Point. WHAT?
She seemed to be on something during the interview. Poor woman, who knows. But I really believe she knows more. Why she is with holding is anyone's guess.

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Earlier in the series, Maura was described as being very close to her other sister, and there was a moment with Fred where he said something to the effect that Kathleen was off doing her own thing at the time of the disappearance. I assumed that Kathleen, being older, might have moved away from the family. But later, when we started hearing how important Kathleen was to the story, I began to wonder whether there was more to the separation.

As I think I said before, I'm so squirmy about all of this. I have a sense that there's family stuff that led to Maura's unhappiness but isn't directly related to her disappearance.

Caffeine said:

Of all the ways to disable a car, this seems like a pretty futile method. A solid object in the exhaust is one thing, but a rag? Why not cut the brake lines? Sugar in the gas tank? Slash a tire or two? In that context this never really made sense to me.

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He couldn't cut the brake lines because she would have seen him opening up the hood. Maybe he didn't have any sugar handy. And maybe he didn't have a knife .