Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

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RR0004 said:
The chloroform in the syringe really bugs me...but I'm having trouble visualizing Casey injecting Caylee with it. But, on the otherhand, it's a really slow way of filling a container.
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A convenient way to remove it from the container tho...if she stored her homebrew in the Gatorade bottle.
 
spqr said:
Not a chance this could happen. The pork or chicken you speak of is a "processsed" food. It has been prepped with additives and preservatives and will not decompose in the manner in which a recently deceased human with aerobic/anaerobic oxygen consumption.

Processed meat will not produce coffin wax nor coffin flies. I'll concede the "meat" will go bad and probably not look very appetizing and maybe even smell bad. But will not reproduce the similar characteristics of human decomposition. JMO
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What makes you think this is processed food? I buy fresh chicken and fresh pork.
 
DogMom2JoeAndWillie said:
I don't want to get into any trouble for being too OT and the response I'm going to have to put together about the benzodiazepines in the bulk hair sample is probably going to get really long (there is just a lot of info to cover)...so I'm wondering if you guys can give me some advice on where to post it?? TIA, everyone!
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General doc discussion thread or start a new thread?
 
Wudge said:
The defense filed a motion to dismiss. The prosecution responded by releasing new evidence that ties the syringe to Casey and that places Casey at the site of Caylee's remains.
Opps, the second sentence contained an error. It should read: the prosecution responded by releasing new evidence that aids the defense.

(The D.A.'s office needs a new courtroom tactician.)
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BBM

That is the furthest thing from the truth. The documents released were requested by way of the Sunshine Law. Last time I checked the prosecution isn't a party that can request said documents. This release is in no way, shape or form a response to the defense via the prosecution. The game of "neener, neener" seems to apply to one party here and it isn't the prosecution.
 
jai-yen said:
Good luck with that tooth! I'm in the midst of dental work right now, too.. and, yikes, even though the end result is wonderful - getting there can be painful. LOL

On to your topic, it just doesn't make sense that George or Cindy would be taking testosterone. They are both in their 50s which would be a bit young for that. (I am 58, have gone through The Change and have never had a doctor suggest that I take testosterone. I wouldn't consider it unless I wanted to lower my voice and grow a beard!) Somehow the idea of KC distracting Cindy or waiting until Cindy was busy with something to check out what's available and then incorporate it into her plan sounds very Casey-like. She's not the sharpest tool in the shed.. but she's sly! :)



~*
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I totally agree with you. She was a person of opportunity. She couldn't even be bothered stepping off of the road to hide the body of her daughter, I don't see her fighting with a sharps box in the home. I think she saw quick and easy access and snatched it from someone at some point. Like I said in the first post, I may be wrong but I just can't point the finger at George for the testosterone yet. And I do believe that the female stuff is a cream. I really wish I could have been a fly on the wall when Cindy found out about the test results though!

O/T Good luck with your dental work too! I feel your pain...literally. Somehow, all of a sudden at 33 there is just no room for them anymore and out of nowhere they started being unbearable. Super weird, but I know nothing about teeth and maybe that is how it goes?
 
notthatsmart said:
I think chloroform is also used in preserving food for refrigeration. So, if you had a bag of oscar mayer pork or tyson chicken in your trunk, I suppose the juice left over in the bag could break down to coffin wax and produce coffin flies and l believe also that animal decomp produces chloroform.
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What I just looked up is that chloroform is used as a refrigerant in the A/c field. It can also be used in the pharmaceutical industry helping to extract from plants ie:extracting morphine from the poppy. I did not see mention of using as a preservative nor do I believe that processed meats could cause coffin wax. But I will defiantly have to see what I can find on this tomorrow. Interesting theory but very similar to the pizza theory I think.:waitasec:
 
LittleBitty35 said:
Correction: The press made a request for the above information that was released to the defense a month ago. The same information. They have sat on for a month, the defense, what was released today.

So in that sense, the reason the Defense can't defend their client, apart from the obvious (her entire story is a complete fabrication and sux) is because they want what keeps trickling out of the SA's office. To wit: They would love to know if KC's prints are on that syringe or can be conclusively connected to the bottle/syringe/contents so they can figure out what yarn they are going to spin next.

May I suggest the defense claim MC Hammer did it? It can't be anymore ludicrous than wanting their day in court and not filing for a speedy trial. Not wanting the people of Florida to be saturated with stuff...and yet fighting against a gag order. And the most obsurd of all...Zanny the Nanny. The rich super hot nanny who babysat for free...and who has the power to remove phone numbers from phone records. Cuz KC is so important to the future of our country the entire state of Florida has got to make sure that hard working, smart, degreed girl stays behind bars. LOL.
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One reason you file a motion is to get information. If this is the best the State has or could come up with, and I suspect it is -- don't expect to see a separate fingerprint report -- it can't meet the burden of proof for murder one.
 
DogMom2JoeAndWillie said:
I don't want to get into any trouble for being too OT and the response I'm going to have to put together about the benzodiazepines in the bulk hair sample is probably going to get really long (there is just a lot of info to cover)...so I'm wondering if you guys can give me some advice on where to post it?? TIA, everyone!
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there is not a thread for that....but its been talked about in the today-reg-doc-dump thread :)

ooops its closed now....if you found something....you can start a thread on it....if there is nothing there....then just say nothing there that you found :)
 
notthatsmart said:
What makes you think this is processed food? I buy fresh chicken and fresh pork.
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You used "Oscar Mayer" pork and "Tyson" chicken in your "example".

Oscar Mayer, to my knowledge sells lunch meat, bacon, and hot dogs. All processed. Tyson may sell fresh chicken. ? I haven't seen it in my area. But, in any case, it is interesting you chose Tyson chicken for your "example", as that is what TL said was in her bag of pilfered groceries when he picked her up at Amscot.

Naturally, I think most of us would then think of frozen Tyson chicken. Neither of those is fresh meat, nor would they provide a biological signature akin to human decomp.
 
notthatsmart said:
I have been reading a lot on wikipedia, dont laugh. There is a lot of info out there. Much of human decomp is much the same a animal decomp. Makes sense, we are animals. Coffin wax is not just produced by humans.

I have to be careful about going off topic here. I appolgize for that. Ask me a question about the topic and I will respond. thanks
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Okay just an fyi about Wikipedia for you..

"Volunteers do not need any formal training before creating a new article or editing an existing article."
 
Wudge said:
The defense filed a motion to dismiss. The prosecution responded by releasing new evidence that ties the syringe to Casey and that places Casey at the site of Caylee's remains.

Opps, the second sentence contained an error. It should read: the prosecution responded by releasing new evidence that aids the defense.

(The D.A.'s office needs a new courtroom tactician.)
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...or the defense filed the motion because they knew it was only a matter of time before the "public" docs were going to be released? But, that's not what we're talking about anymore...distraction over.
 
notthatsmart said:
I have been reading a lot on wikipedia, dont laugh. There is a lot of info out there. Much of human decomp is much the same a animal decomp. Makes sense, we are animals. Coffin wax is not just produced by humans.

I have to be careful about going off topic here. I appolgize for that. Ask me a question about the topic and I will respond. thanks
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Not laughing. :shutup:

To be specific, can you provide individual links that help us better understand:

  • The use of chloroform as a refrigerant.
  • The production of chloroform as a result of leaving oscar mayer deli meat in a vehicle trunk.
  • The production of coffin wax and coffin flies as a result of the juice left over in a trash bag from the aforementioned deli meat.
  • The production of chloroform by animals.
TIA!
 
lizzysf said:
Sorry, couldn't resist.. but seriously now, why the heck would anyone preserve food with Chloroform?? Where did you find that lil' nugget?
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I get some info off wikipedia. The problem is that some of the google and wikipedia links seem to be considering chlorine or chlorinated water a form of chloroform. Is it?

This is off of wikipedia:
Safety

As might be expected for an anesthetic, inhaling chloroform vapors depresses the central nervous system. It is immediately dangerous to life and health at approximately 500 ppm, according to the United States National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health. Breathing about 900 ppm for a short time can cause dizziness, fatigue, and headache. Chronic chloroform exposure may cause damage to the liver (where chloroform is metabolized to phosgene) and to the kidneys, and some people develop sores when the skin is immersed in chloroform.

Though normally minute and diluted amounts are exposed to humans, chloroform can be harmful. Chloroform can be exposed via inhalation, ingestion of drinking water and foods made with chlorinated water, as well as dermal contact. It is readily excreted through exhalation, and minuscule amounts are excreted through urination and feces. The Environmental Protection Agency reports, a fatal oral dose of chloroform may be as low as 10 mL (14.8 g), with death due to respiratory or cardiac arrest [12].
 
notthatsmart said:
Thank you for your input. I have read as much as anyone else though. Im in here everyday reading the docs. I save the post for at night. It is okay if posters dont respond. I only want to debate with posters that are kind and respectful. You will note that i usually respond to kindness.

I went to the bug thread and found nothing of substance. Yes many people are in there thanking muzikman for all he does. I do to. He works so hard.

There is only about 10 percent post in these threads that have anything of substance. I only want to debate substance, not attitude. I am not here to be liked, I am here to get info. sorry this is off topic
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There is a LOT in the entomology report.

Bug activity narrows the time of death to June and early July. The thriving 'coffin fly' colony and the pitiful amount of "blow flies' points to Caylee going into the trunk right after death or even before she died. If Caylee's body had been out "blow flies" would have been first on the scene.

"Coffin flies' prefer putrefied goopy remains. Which is what would occur quickly in an oxygen deprived hot moist trunk. The way the bug colonies formed is exactly what would be expected if a body was bagged, put in a trunk, then left out in a marsh and finally submerged.

Neal Haskell is a bug and murder genius. He knows his stuff and will put it in a way the jury willl get.

Google Brookey West. She killed her mother and stuffed her in a garbage can. The lack of blow flies and presense of coffin flies got West convicted. Neal Haskell's testimony put West behind bars. He will be able to explain how well the bug evidence and the condition of Caylee fits the circumstances.

P.S. There was no pizza in the trashbag. The oscar meyer salami container was empty. The velveeta foil looks wiped clean. The coffin flies in the trunk were thriving because what they like best is putrefaction that is starting to jell and is goopy. Which would have been Caylee's condition after 4 days in that hot anaerobic moist environment.

jmo
 
MD MOMMY said:
BBM

That is the furthest thing from the truth. The documents released were requested by way of the Sunshine Law. Last time I checked the prosecution isn't a party that can request said documents. This release is in no way, shape or form a response to the defense via the prosecution. The game of "neener, neener" seems to apply to one party here and it isn't the prosecution.
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Correct. The defense has had these docs for at least a week or more. Once docs are released to the opposing party, public records requests must be satisfied. There are no leaks. THe motion to dismiss may have been the defenses response to the evidence they had jut received, but that occurred before the PUBLIC release of these docs.
 
notthatsmart said:
I think chloroform is also used in preserving food for refrigeration. So, if you had a bag of oscar mayer pork or tyson chicken in your trunk, I suppose the juice left over in the bag could break down to coffin wax and produce coffin flies and l believe also that animal decomp produces chloroform.
Click to expand...

Chloroform is the organic compound with formula CHCl3. This colorless, sweet-smelling, dense liquid is a trihalomethane. It is also considered somewhat hazardous. Several million tons were produced annually as a precursor to teflon and refrigerants, but the latter application is being phased out.[1]
If you meant preserving food using refrigeration I understand, but I don't know of its use in preservatives for food.
 
Wudge said:
One reason you file a motion is to get information. If this is the best the State has or could come up with, and I suspect it is -- don't expect to see a separate fingerprint report -- it can't meet the burden of proof for murder one.
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I doubt very much the FBI released their "best work" this far out.
 
notthatsmart said:
What makes you think this is processed food? I buy fresh chicken and fresh pork.
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Fair enough...but I am very familiar with human decomposition and it in NO WAY equates to the decomposition of animals (pigs being the closest).

Now unless you are buying your fresh chicken and fresh pork directly from a farm after a fresh kill...the food you are buying is processed in some way to hinder/delay any spoilage.

So where is this farm you shop at??
 
DogMom2JoeAndWillie said:
I don't want to get into any trouble for being too OT and the response I'm going to have to put together about the benzodiazepines in the bulk hair sample is probably going to get really long (there is just a lot of info to cover)...so I'm wondering if you guys can give me some advice on where to post it?? TIA, everyone!
Click to expand...

If you think this is pertinent for discussion about the case, yes please start a thread!

I will be waiting for it :crazy:
 
Wudge said:
One reason you file a motion is to get information. If this is the best the State has or could come up with, and I suspect it is -- dont't expect to see a separate fingerprint report on fingerprints -- it can't meet the burden of proof for murder one.
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I doubt it will be the best that the SA can come up. I like you, but you appear to have an obvious bias as it relates to the prosecution, not just in this case. Not all defendents are innocent. Not all DA's offices are out to get the innocent.

The defense had these same documents for a month. They were released because the press requested them. This is the first I have heard, apart from the bottle/syringe being listed with the debris being found near Caylee's remains, of them possibly having a connection to the case. So imagine, the remains were found on December 11th. We are just now getting more information about the syringe and bottle of gatorade as having to do with chloroform. Something we have not seen before now. So imagine if they are trickling out the evidence. Which, some might think is just mean. I say, if the defense wants to claim they have exculpatory evidence they should produce it before the judge mandated deadline that they do so on or before February first. But since the Judge asked for said information a month ago, I have serious doubts about the defense having any said evidence.

It is my contention that this will not be the last time we will be hearing about the bottle/syringe as it relates to this case.

It is not the prosecution's fault that KC claims a phantom did it. That is her fault.
 
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