Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #9

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I think his problems were beyond that, though. I don't understand why she couldn't see that (even allowing for some denial as a mother).

I cannot imagine him EVER being able to handle anything more than a part-time job in a very sheltered environment (meaning no clients or customers to encounter) and a very few co-workers, and that's on the optimistic end of the spectrum.

It sounds to me that he got worse in a last couple of years. Before that he was able to attend school and take college courses. He even got a drivers license.
Last two years he was apparently sitting in his basement most of the time playing video games. About that time he also reportedly stopped communicating with his brother and father, so nobody really could observe him except his mother.
 
My brother, who sounds a good deal like AL in many ways, became highly symptomatic at aged 18. Up until then, he seemed finicky and overly worried and introverted and had only one friend. But he became drastically worse rather suddenly, dropped out classes and retreated to his room, where he has remained for three decades...I believe this is a common age for schizophrenia onset, jmo.
 
I hope we find out if he had schizoprenia or a personality disorder. Statements about him indicate that he was giving people the silent treatment as far back as second grade. Going into withdrawal as a teen and only his mom being able able to get him to respond doesn't seem like schizoprenia. If he was really catatonic it doesn't seem like he'd respond to her either. Would people with Aspergers, who had therapy all thru childhood go around acting like that, or was it learned attention seeking manipulation just to get his mom to school and maybe take him home?
 
Is it because you don't think he saw a professional or because you don't think he fit the criteria?

IMO, he did not fit enough of the criteria to be diagnosed by a professional. Perhaps when he was a child he fit some of the criteria and that was enough for his parents. I imagine more information will come out. If he was diagnosed there should be a record of it.
I still suspect Schizophrenia.
 
IMO, he did not fit enough of the criteria to be diagnosed by a professional. Perhaps when he was a child he fit some of the criteria and that was enough for his parents. I imagine more information will come out. If he was diagnosed there should be a record of it.
I still suspect Schizophrenia.

I'm not sure we have enough information to tell that he didn't fit the criteria. Certainly he fit some of them.

http://www.autreat.com/dsm4-aspergers.html
Diagnostic Criteria for 299.80 Asperger's Disorder
======================================================================

[The following is from Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders: DSM IV]

(I) Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

(A) marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction

Check. We've read that he had trouble with eye contact, seemed awkward walking in the school corridors and a classmate said that you couldn't see any emotions which I read as saying his facial expressions were abnormal.
(B) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level

Check. That's two out of the required two in (I).

(C) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interest or achievements with other people, (e.g.. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
I don't think we know whether he pointed out objects of interest as a child but based on the descriptions of the people who knew him at school he didn't seem to have much initiative in trying to make any contact with others.
(D) lack of social or emotional reciprocity
Check. That is at least what NL complained of, partly. Her friends said that she was upset because he didn't express affection.

(II) Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

I don't think there is enough information to say whether some of these apply but we could probably check at least one, B, I think. The Latin teacher said he was OCD, always wore the same or similar clothing to school all year and always took the same routes when walking at the school which would seem to point to inflexibility in some of his routines.
(III) The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Check. Impairments in social functioning, absolutely. He never had a job, and he dropped out of the educational system, apparently because of his problems but if he was diagnosed as a child he was still doing pretty good at school at that point so academic impairment wouldn't have counted.

(IV) There is no clinically significant general delay in language (E.G. single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

Inconclusive. No one's come out saying that he had language delay but we don't know when he learned to speak, afaik.

(V) There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction) and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

He was said to be bright so there probably was no significant delay in cognitive development. I don't think we can tell how his self-help skills developed in early childhood.

(VI) Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia."


There are some unknowns there. There is some overlap between the negative symptoms of schizophrenia and his symptoms. I don't think we have information about whether he might have had positive symptoms but I think if he had been severely delusional and hallucinating as a child it would probably have made it more difficult for him to succeed at school as well as he did because it tends to impair a child's ability to focus on the academic work. Just speculating but if he had schizophrenia it probably started to manifest itself in late teens when he started to isolate himself more.
 
It sounds to me that he got worse in a last couple of years. Before that he was able to attend school and take college courses. He even got a drivers license.
Last two years he was apparently sitting in his basement most of the time playing video games. About that time he also reportedly stopped communicating with his brother and father, so nobody really could observe him except his mother.

I would sincerely like to know your theory of what happened to cause him to withdraw 3 years ago? Not picking on you....just looking for your theory. Your posts make a lot of sense to me.
 
A little OT, but I know little about DD of schiz./ PD, etc.
I keep wondering why these mass killers, CO, VA Tech, Columbine, all seem to be from well healed and educated families that could have provided much more psych help to their sons. I haven't followed this in the past, but I am wondering, why don't we hear about 20 something males from impoverished backgrounds commiting these atrocities? I would love anyones input. Merry Christmas my WS friends.
 
I would sincerely like to know your theory of what happened to cause him to withdraw 3 years ago? Not picking on you....just looking for your theory. Your posts make a lot of sense to me.

You weren't asking me, but IMO some type of schizophrenia was emerging.
 
A little OT, but I know little about DD of schiz./ PD, etc.
I keep wondering why these mass killers, CO, VA Tech, Columbine, all seem to be from well healed and educated families that could have provided much more psych help to their sons. I haven't followed this in the past, but I am wondering, why don't we hear about 20 something males from impoverished backgrounds commiting these atrocities? I would love anyones input. Merry Christmas my WS friends.

Look what is going down in the Southside of Chicago right now. Kids killing kids in cold blood over dime bags. Same thing has been happening in South Central. Drive bys, killing anyone they randomly pass on the street. I truly believe that the most cold blooded of the gang bangers are often mentally ill, perhaps undiagnosed.
 
A little OT, but I know little about DD of schiz./ PD, etc.
I keep wondering why these mass killers, CO, VA Tech, Columbine, all seem to be from well healed and educated families that could have provided much more psych help to their sons. I haven't followed this in the past, but I am wondering, why don't we hear about 20 something males from impoverished backgrounds commiting these atrocities? I would love anyones input. Merry Christmas my WS friends.

I'd like to know too but I have read that at least 20% of our prison population are mentally ill. Don't quote me but it was during a search a while back via google. Maybe some just did other extreme crimes or wouldn't have done it if they were treated/medicated correctly or monitored? Got me.

If a person is at there wits end with a family member due to odd behavior, seek help. Don't let roadblocks stand in your way. You can do it. Do it swiftly too.

jmo
 
I wonder if the more impoverished mentally ill or personality disordered kids get caught quicker and locked up. Last night a poster said A might have been better off if he lived in a trailer park. I think that might be true. Even if just around less money to buy guns and get secluded down in a nice family room with thousands of dollars worth of electronics. More impoverished school districts might also worry less about offending parents.
 
I'd like to know too but I have read that at least 20% of our prison population are mentally ill. Don't quote me but it was during a search a while back via google. Maybe some just did other extreme crimes or wouldn't have done it if they were treated/medicated correctly or monitored? Got me.

If a person is at there wits end with a family member due to odd behavior, seek help. Don't let roadblocks stand in your way. You can do it. Do it swiftly too.

jmo
As a former correctional officer I would say that 20% is probably overly conservative.
 
If a person is at there wits end with a family member due to odd behavior, seek help. Don't let roadblocks stand in your way. You can do it. Do it swiftly too.

jmo

To be honest, the system errs on the side of a person's rights and sometimes family has a very difficult time getting help for their loved one (a parent with dementia is a perfect example). I doubt that occurred in this case, but generally if the person doesn't believe they need help and presents in a marginally reasonable way, they aren't forced to get help.
 
A little OT, but I know little about DD of schiz./ PD, etc.
I keep wondering why these mass killers, CO, VA Tech, Columbine, all seem to be from well healed and educated families that could have provided much more psych help to their sons. I haven't followed this in the past, but I am wondering, why don't we hear about 20 something males from impoverished backgrounds commiting these atrocities? I would love anyones input. Merry Christmas my WS friends.

Denial is a huge problem for families of any income level, and since well-to-do people are human too, they refuse to believe sometimes that their children are changing for the worse. Parents always want to have hope where their children are concerned, and often these problems exacerbate while the kid is away at college or in a new situation. So the parents are probably as shocked as everyone else.

I don't think that's the case with Adam Lanza and his mother - I do think she saw warning signs in him, which is why she told his babysitter not to turn her back on him. I have avoided this topic because I have strong opinions about it, but truly it is nuts to me that she put guns in the house with a child who was having so many problems. Not because she should have realized he would kill her or hurt others, but because he might have killed himself on any given day. It's just really counterintuitive that you would have even one gun in the house with a troubled child, whatever their problems.

For problems like schizophrenia, which I have seen first hand with a relative, sometimes the first symptoms just seem like ordinary teenage rebellion. Getting into trouble for drinking underage is almost the norm in our society, but for young people who have the onset of depression or something else it can become a chronic problem, even in the best of caring families. All teens sometimes have bad judgment so most parents never jump to the conclusion that they are in a downward spiral.

That's why drug addiction, alcoholism, and violence can still happen even in cookie cutter perfect neighborhoods.

But impoverished teens do also commit these types of crimes. However lack of money or connections means that they are incarcerated instead of receiving any kind of medical treatment.

Our jail system is full of people with undiagnosed mental, medical, or developmental problems and is one of the scandals of our society. States are trying to come up with new plans involving not much in funding, which is hampering the process.

Also the privatization of the jail system means that inmates are given the least amount of care possible on tight budgets, and even local officials may not understand the extent of the problem.

You have to have a really good attorney in most states just to get a psychiatric evaluation, and for poor inmates that is not a reality.
 
I feel very sorry for ALs brother and father. Whilst yes, AL took innocent lives and that is awful, it's almost like they aren't allowed to publicly grieve for their son/brother.

I noticed it happened in Columbine as well, with the shooters parents.
 
Could very well be the case, especially with the fact he moved. Adam Lanza was resentful about it.

With the latest article http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Adam-Lanza-s-online-gaming-history-probed-4141582.php about Adam killing his Mother The car was owned by Nancy Lanza, the killer's mother. She was found dead in her bed with four .22-caliber bullet wounds in the face, a source said. A hunting rifle found at the home is believed to have been used in that murder. All of the guns found were legally purchased by Lanza's mother, I am more convinced that Adam was resentful towards Nancy and the move.

Different friends of Nancy's would bring up about her country-girl, New Hampshire upbringing. Also, the town in New Hampshire that the Lanza's were married in and grew up in, had a famous dignitary, a personage who signed the Declaration of Independence. It's the fitting in part that may have also contributed to the resentment from Adam, his Mom was different, too.

Nancy doesn't sound like a Socialite and given the reputation that one hears about the upper classes of Connecticut, it would be comparable to the first class passengers of the Titanic.

Resentment---Resentment (also called ranklement or bitterness) is the experience of a negative emotion (anger or hatred, for instance)[1] felt as a result of a real or imagined wrong done.
Resentment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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