Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #17

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Going back to read some old posts to find out the tide information i noticed that Innerchild said that the car was 50m out .

Quote "Car was found 50m off Cott SLSC boatshed (now Indiana)..rsbm." unquote.

Quote "Car would have been around 50 m horizontally or parallel to shore from groyne if it was in front of boatshed, and it was reported 50 m out to sea."unquote

Im going to reformat the tide information into a much easier to read version then post it ASAP.
Theres two different versions of the tide from 2 different websites, with one much easier to read than the other .
Noname found the simple easy to read version, but it needs to be cross checked for accuracy.

"20Jun88 - High Tide 1.1m 11.35am - Low Tide .7m 9.31pm"

"21Jun88 - High Tide 1.03m 11.52am - Low Tide .73m 8.27pm"

"22Jun88 - High Tide .97m 10.07am - Low Tide .76m 8.25pm"

One of these links seems to have failed sorry .

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13314870

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13315097

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13313958

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13314726
 
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Cottesloe Beach: This pic looks like drone photography, and it shows lots of dark shadows in the water, which could be reef or seaweed.

The ocean is VERY FLAT in this pic, with no waves to be seen in photo, so visibility is maximised because the sand isn't getting moved around by waves, like the inside a washing machine.

The visibility looks very good on this particular day from up this high, but back in 1988, pre-drones and pre-SUP's (stand-up-paddle -boards), the visibility angle would be less, and therefore underwater shapes would be less distinct when viewing from water level.

IMO, Meticulously's description of the powerful waves occurring 20-22 June 1988 means the sand probably got very unsettled those days, reducing visibility significantly. With powerful waves and a churning ocean, its understandable that any Clubbies or Bobbies didn't see JC's submerged Fiat. And if they did see any underwater dark shapes, they probably didn't instantly think "Oh look there's a car underwater!", and probably just thought any dark shadows were reef or masses of seaweed (like seen in this pic).

And then by Wednesday, when the weather had improved, and the ocean calmed down a little, and the sand settled a bit, perhaps visibility improved, and the Fiat was finally spotted by someone.
_____________________________________
Pic from:
https://www.waholidayguide.com.au/e...th-region-guide/perth-beach-western-australia
 

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Spooks-R-Us said:
I haven't decided yet CV. I'd need to see photos of the northern side from 1988 to come up with an answer for you.



............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]
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It doesn't look as thought the groyne has enough gradient for the LBF to have rolled off. The other two roads have an extensive slope.
 
Pandit said:
Apologies nn, I didn't see your original post either I wonder if it was the night when there seemed to be some lag in posts going up a couple of weeks or so ago.

Not familiar with the area, the infrastructure nor how it's changed over the years but this sounds pretty good. Somewhere north of the groyne, if a local says a car can get onto the beach there, I'm agreeable.
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That's weird - because I also didn't see this post by noname with pic???? I think my Tapatalk app has been playing up, missing posts, and omitting my signature for a few posts!!!! spooky
 
DRT said:
Did a search on trove.nla.gov.au for photos of Cottesloe Beach. Aerial photo from 1987.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/11391566

http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/images/pd215/215403PD.jpg

There is also a view from 1996 to see how it has changed.

http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/images/pd137/137146PD.jpg

Also beach view from National Archives of Australia.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/161437400?q=cottesloe+beach&c=picture&versionId=175978794
Click to expand...

Big thank you to you [emoji1317][emoji1]



............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]
 
Is anyone able to obtain a spatial maps image of the groyne? Ensuring the gradient overlay is added.
 
Yes, there's that little issue of not knowing what gear it was in when found again.

Canning Vale said:
Spooks,

With regard to this theory, are you suggesting that the car accidentally rolled down the slope, or was driven. Meaning accidentally left out of gear.
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Cott Beach surf breaks and reef:
"There were 4 surf breaks at Cottesloe with winter being the best. Depending on the sand banks the wave at the end of the groyne was by far the best being a long (for the city) left, then there was a reef between the groyne and the pylon, another at the pylon and then Slimey’s reef break. All would end in a dumping shore-break which ripped out a number of fixed fins. As they were glassed in, the damage to the boards was often serious."
http://surfingdownsouth.com.au/2016/12/21/1960s-cottesloe-beach-a-trip-down-memory-lane/
BBM
 

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DRT said:
Did a search on trove.nla.gov.au for photos of Cottesloe Beach. Aerial photo from 1987.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/11391566

http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/images/pd215/215403PD.jpg

There is also a view from 1996 to see how it has changed.

http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/images/pd137/137146PD.jpg

Also beach view from National Archives of Australia.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/161437400?q=cottesloe+beach&c=picture&versionId=175978794
Click to expand...

Thanks DRT , great picture of 1987 era .

Quote Spooks :
"Cott Beach surf breaks and reef:
"There were 4 surf breaks at Cottesloe with winter being the best.
Depending on the sand banks the wave at the end of the groyne was by far the best being a long (for the city) left,
then there was a reef between the groyne and the pylon,
another at the pylon,
And then Slimey’s reef break.
All would end in a dumping shore-break" rsbm...
http://surfingdownsouth.com.au...beach-a-trip-down-memory-lane/
________________________________
1. Ive marked on far left, Slimeys Reef .
2. Circled the pylon, in centre .
3. Circled the reef between the groyne and pylon.
09f595c56739c29093f44736b75a2f2a.jpg



https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13708971
 
Spooks-R-Us said:
JC Fiat found 50m off beach

"Julie Cutler, 22, disappeared after a staff party at the Parmelia Hilton in 1988 and her car was found overturned in the ocean about 50m off Cottesloe Beach two days later."
BBM
http://www.news.com.au/national/cri...s/news-story/66be6757b29872fee76a78308987688d
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50 metres is one of the top end distances reported, iirc other reports had it at a lesser distance,
(perhaps as low as 35 metres? Unconfirmed atm)
Even in a calm ocean i dont think the car could roll into the ocean that far (35m)
Let alone 50m is not a possibility imo.
The 2nd and 3rd nights had reasonably calm enough ocean conditions .
The waves possibly inconsistent enough, so its possible that at times there was gaps between waves .
To roll unmanned / unwomanned seems less likely to have happened than some other theories such as if a driver Drove the car out into the ocean .

The first night when JC disappeared mon 12:30am was when waves (commonly called) 2.5 metres - 3metres were consistently breaking on the cott beach .
Its unlikely that it could be driven out into the waves on the 1st night imo .
It seems that waves push cars in, rather than suck cars out .
Thats taking into consideration the shape of cottesloe beach as well .
Links have been provided about the waves [emoji817] [emoji6].
Jmo
 
Hi.

If the car was in neutral when it was found, we could be looking at this type of scenario. If the hill was steep enough someone might just get enough speed up with a bit of a push running along beside keeping it straight (as you would with a one man bump start) but then just let it go and walk away when it got too fast. Maybe it could be done.

attachment.php


Other alternative is to hammer it in driving, top gear second and squealing. Maybe third. Do we even know if was an automatic or a manual? :thinking:

[video=youtube;x148tT03-MU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x148tT03-MU[/video]
 

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Does anyone actually think JC was a CSK victim? I really don’t see it... Do Perthites think the present day in Perth is safer than 80s/90s ? We talk on these threads about a lot of macabre stuff from that time period haha. I never found any part of Perth remotely threatening, but then again I’m a guy. From watching Aussie crime stuff and serial killer cases in the 80s and 90s there were some real nut jobs operating back then in Australia!
 
I've seen figures from 30m/33m? met, could have been the journalists standing on either the shore or on the groyne and they've taken a wild guess. Too bad we couldn't track the towie down, they'd have the measurement of the line/chain.



meticulously said:
50 metres is one of the top end distances reported, iirc other reports had it at a lesser distance,
(perhaps as low as 35 metres? Unconfirmed atm)
Even in a calm ocean i dont think the car could roll into the ocean that far (35m)
Let alone 50m is not a possibility imo.
The 2nd and 3rd nights had reasonably calm enough ocean conditions .
The waves possibly inconsistent enough, so its possible that at times there was gaps between waves .
To roll unmanned / unwomanned seems less likely to have happened than some other theories such as if a driver Drove the car out into the ocean .

The first night when JC disappeared mon 12:30am was when waves (commonly called) 2.5 metres - 3metres were consistently breaking on the cott beach .
Its unlikely that it could be driven out into the waves on the 1st night imo .
It seems that waves push cars in, rather than suck cars out .
Thats taking into consideration the shape of cottesloe beach as well .
Links have been provided about the waves [emoji817] [emoji6].
Jmo
Click to expand...
 
Pandit said:
Hi.

If the car was in neutral when it was found, we could be looking at this type of scenario. If the hill was steep enough someone might just get enough speed up with a bit of a push running along beside keeping it straight (as you would with a one man bump start) but then just let it go and walk away when it got too fast. Maybe it could be done.

attachment.php


Other alternative is to hammer it in driving, top gear second and squealing. Maybe third. Do we even know if was an automatic or a manual? :thinking:

[video=youtube;x148tT03-MU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x148tT03-MU[/video]
Click to expand...

Thanks Pandit ,
Agreed that the car would roll down hill fast ,
but it would take more than rolling fast to get 30m let alone up to 50m off beach in through the water i think ?
It would be fully submerged fairly soon .

See this 1987 copy from DRT .
The picture is marked with red, the area where the car most likely was .
You can see the water is not shallow, north and south of the pylon its fairly deep .

Jmo and also piecing together the news reports to form theories .
I know Cott beach since the years "85, "86 & "87 when i often went to the beaches from Swanbourne to Cottesloe to bodysurf.
Also been there quite a few times over the years since .

.
6541cb30027f890a1df5d0a54f0c9651.jpg
 
Spooks-R-Us said:
That's weird - because I also didn't see this post by noname with pic???? I think my Tapatalk app has been playing up, missing posts, and omitting my signature for a few posts!!!! spooky
Click to expand...

Spooks, Pandit - all good, no apologies needed. Simply pointing it out as IMO it appears to happen quite alot.
 
Interesting to know how fast he was going, were our suspect/s speedway / racing fans?

The longest rally car ramp jump is 81.99 m (269 ft) and was achieved by Travis Pastrana (United States) at the 'RedBull: New Year. No Limits' event, in Long Beach, California, United States, on 31 December 2009. Pastrana jumped in his rally car off the Pine Street Pier onto a floating barge anchored in Long Beach's Rainbow Harbor.

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/longest-rally-car-ramp-jump

meticulously said:
Thanks Pandit ,
Agreed that the car would roll down hill fast ,
but it would take more than rolling fast to get 30m let alone up to 50m off beach in through the water i think ?
It would be fully submerged fairly soon .

See this 1987 copy from DRT .
The picture is marked with red, the area where the car most likely was .
You can see the water is not shallow, north and south of the pylon its fairly deep .

Jmo and also piecing together the news reports to form theories .
I know Cott beach since the years "85, "86 & "87 when i often went to the beaches from Swanbourne to Cottesloe to bodysurf.
Also been there quite a few times over the years since .

.
6541cb30027f890a1df5d0a54f0c9651.jpg
Click to expand...
 
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